Is the onboard Marvell SE9128 really *THIS* bad?

[wpcoe]

I installed a new 120GB Intel 520 SSD tonight. The Good News is that the Intel (Acronis) Data Migration Software was a dream: I cloned my old 64GB Kingston SSD over to the bare Intel and it booted right up!

Now, the Other News:

I ran ATTO, CrystalDiskMark, Anvil and AS-SSD benchmarks, and they were all consistently dismal. Here's the CDM:

What a disappointment! Those figures are below what's reported by other reviewers and users. The Anvil benchmark showed almost identical low figures for 0% compressible data and 100% compressible data.

I had mistakenly thought my P55 motherboard chipset had two SATA-3 ports, but alas, all six chipset ports are SATA-2. The only SATA-3 ports are the dreaded Marvell SE9128.

I then benchmarked the drive on an Intel chipset SATA-2 port:

The write scores on SATA-2 are much better than on Marvell SATA-3!

Had the SATA-2 not been hitting its max, I'm sure the reads would outdo the Marvell SATA-3, as well.

So. Is there a chance something ELSE is repressing the SATA-3 speeds, other than the Marvell single-PCIe-1x issue?

The partitions are aligned. AHCI is selected in BIOS. I tried both SATA-3 ports, and different power/SATA cables.

If the problem IS (or is MAINLY) the onboard Marvell ports, are the $25-$30 PCIe SYBA or Asmedia brand SATA-3 cards any good? They both use the Marvel SE9128 controller, as well, but I wonder if placing the card in a PCIe-2x slot would encounter the same limitation as the implementation used onboard the motherboard. (I hope that made sense...) There are very confusing user comments -- including quotes from tech support -- saying that you cannot boot the computer if anything is connected to the card. (??) At least one user is "Getting over 450MB/s on a Samsung 830 SSD."

I don't want to shell out hundreds of dollars for a good controller card, especially if a $25 card does the trick.

 

[Old Hippie]

You're only gonna get true SATA6 out of a 500.00 combo (LSI 9260-4i + Fastpath)

Just stick with SATA2 on your MB.

 

[Coup27]

Unfortunately as you have just discovered, the onboard Marvell SATA 6Gb/s ports are a waste of time. Many users of this forum have reported awful performance and stability problems with non-native 6Gb/s ports on their motherboard.

PCI Express cards are not any better either. Most of them use a Marvell chip so it's the exact same problem mashed onto a PCI Express card as well.

There is simply no substitute for native ports and if you want your 520 to perform to the best of its ability I think it is your only route.

 

[groberts101]

Some board implementations/driver combos are better than others and you have a bad one there for sure.

Mine isn't all that bad, but I overclock the P outta my PCI-E to get the best performance since the chip runs directly off the PCI-E hub.

 

[wpcoe]

Hmmm. I thought my wild-n-crazy days of overclocking were behind me. I may take a look at overclocking PCIe. Don't care much if I burn out the mother board, as long as I don't fry the SSD...

PCI Express cards are not any better either. Most of them use a Marvell chip so it's the exact same problem mashed onto a PCI Express card as well.

So, it doesn't matter if the Marvell controller is the onboard implementation or on a card in a PCIe-2x slot -- it still sucks.

 

[wpcoe]

A comment about Intel, as well:

For the premium price of the 520, I was surprised they didn't include a CD with the migration software or the Intel Toolbox. In fact, I see no mention of the Intel Toolbox in the documentation, though they do provide a link to download the migration tool.

 

[palladium]

A comment about Intel, as well:

For the premium price of the 520, I was surprised they didn't include a CD with the migration software or the Intel Toolbox. In fact, I see no mention of the Intel Toolbox in the documentation, though they do provide a link to download the migration tool.

Yep I certainly found that annoying. I needed the toolbox as I am on Vista, and my internet was down for a few days waiting for a replacement router :X

 

[wpcoe]

In Windows Task Manager, I see two Marvell processes operating:

Since I am not operating a host server, would it be safe to stop those processes? Apparently it loads via a registry key: HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\MRUWebService

 

[techvslife]

Since I am not operating a host server, would it be safe to stop those processes?
Yes, that's just for the web server used by the Marvell storage utility (MSU); gives you a web page showing the status of your drives, and if raided, information on that. (i.e. you are running a local web server, used by Marvell, but it's informational only).

 

[taltamir]

Intel is the only company on the market right now that knows how to build an SATA port.
If I were you I would use the SATA2 native port until the next mobo upgrade. Make sure to get an intel SATA3 native port when you get your next mobo.

 

[wpcoe]

Idle hands and the devil, I decided to tinker with settings. Doing so with the Marvell 9128 is a minefield.

I found that Marvell released new firmware, driver, and software ("Marvell Storage Utility") in January 2012, so I figured I'd give them a try. The already dismal performance of my Intel 520, nose-dived further. e.g. CDM Seq read/write: 167.7/123.4 MB/s <sigh...>

I failed to note the firmware and BIOS versions I had before that, so I downloaded and installed progressively older ones until I finally regained the old, "only-dismal" performance.

I noticed a surprising "feature" in the newest firmware/BIOS:

It cuts the PCIe speed for the drive in half!

Somehow I've managed to improve the SATA-3 write speeds. Although still shy of the SATA-2 speeds, should I still change over to the SATA-2 port?

The Marvell port seems to have a definite ceiling on writes at 240210.

If Ivy Bridge weren't so imminient, I'd be jumping ship for a Sandy Bridge chip on a motherboard with Intel chipset SATA-3. It's going to be difficult to wait, because it irritates me to have a top-line SSD with such throttled performance.

 

[beginner99]

this is a good read:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2973/6gbps-sata-performance-amd-890gx-vs-intel-x58-p55

But looking at your speed your motherboard should be one of the "good ones". Anyway, back then I made the same mistake and thought such extra features could come in handy but i should have saved the money and used it for an earlier upgrade...

 

[wpcoe]

Thanks for that link, beginner99.

On my P55 mobo, I have four PCIe slots:

PCIe 2.0:
one x16 slot

PCIe 1.0:
one x4 slot
two x1 slots

If I understand correctly, I can move my graphics card to the x4 slot where it will run on PCIe 1.0. For my uses (ATI HD4670, no gaming) would that be noticeable?

If so, then I could put a SATA-3 controller card in the x16 slot which runs at PCIe 2.0, and will give *close to* real native SATA-3 throughput, which is considerably higher than what I have now.

If I can get my hands on a ~$30 controller card -- which remains to be seen here in Thailand -- I might not need to be so eager to upgrade my entire system to Ivy Bridge (or Sandy Bridge, if my patience wears out.)

Any thoughts on this strategy?

 

[Coup27]

I am no expert on PCI Express but according to Wikipedia:

Capacity Per lane (each direction):

• v1.x: 250 MB/s (2.5 GT/s)
• v2.x: 500 MB/s (5 GT/s)
• v3.0: 1 GB/s (8 GT/s)
• v4.0: 2 GB/s (16 GT/s)

16 lane slot (each direction):

• v1.x: 4 GB/s (40 GT/s)
• v2.x: 8 GB/s (80 GT/s)
• v3.0: 16 GB/s (128 GT/s)

That means that even in your PCIe v1.0 x4 slot, the bandwidth is there for 1000MB/sec so I doubt it is PCIe which is the bottleneck.

 

[wpcoe]

From the Anand article:

The 6Gbps situation isn’t any better. Marvell’s 88SE91xx PCIe 2.0 controller is the only way to enable 6Gbps SATA on motherboards (other than 890GX boards) or add-in cards today.

The interface is only a single PCIe 2.0 lane. The 6Gbps SATA spec allows for up to 750MB/s of bandwidth, but the PCIe 2.0 x1 interface limits read/write speed to 500MB/s. Pair it with a PCIe 1.0 x1 interface and you’re down to 250MB/s (and much less in reality due to bus overhead).

I took that to mean that the Marvell 88SE91xx was only a PCIe 2.0 1x lane device, and that if placed in a 4x slot, it would still only operate at 1x speed. A PCIe 2.0 1x slot would provide double the speed of a PCIe 1.0 1x slot, and the only PCIe 2.0 slot on my motherboard is the 16x one.

As I was writing this post, I had a sudden thought: did he mean the onboard implementation is restricted to 1x, but not an add-in card?

So, I went to the HighPoint web site, and found that those ~$25 SATA-3 cards are all 1x, but they do make 4x models. The cheapest 4x model I see on NewEgg is a $96 card.

(Turns out that at the time that article was written both the onboard implementation and the add-in cards were restricted to 1x.)

Have I got that all wrong? (This is all brand new to me, which is why I'm asking for help and confirmation.)

 

[groberts101]

the marvell chip has an INTERNAL 1 lane restriction. So, you could put that chip on a 16x card and it wouls till have the same speed.

AFAIK, of currently available cards right now the Highpoint 2720 is the best bang for the buck. Once you get the proper sata fanout cables to go with it, you're about $150 into the card. All the cheaper versions will never let a topline SSD reach full potential.

Supposed to be some newer 2x lane marvell chips coming out soon(9230, I think) but who knows when they will make it onto cheaper cards. Everyone hoped the 2x lane Marvell 9182 would have made its way onto entry level cards, but it never did.

http://www.techpowerup.com/158494/M...-port-and-4-port-SATA-6-Gbps-Controllers.html

 

[beginner99]

From the Anand article:


I took that to mean that the Marvell 88SE91xx was only a PCIe 2.0 1x lane device, and that if placed in a 4x slot, it would still only operate at 1x speed. A PCIe 2.0 1x slot would provide double the speed of a PCIe 1.0 1x slot, and the only PCIe 2.0 slot on my motherboard is the 16x one.

As I was writing this post, I had a sudden thought: did he mean the onboard implementation is restricted to 1x, but not an add-in card?

So, I went to the HighPoint web site, and found that those ~$25 SATA-3 cards are all 1x, but they do make 4x models. The cheapest 4x model I see on NewEgg is a $96 card.

(Turns out that at the time that article was written both the onboard implementation and the add-in cards were restricted to 1x.)

Have I got that all wrong? (This is all brand new to me, which is why I'm asking for help and confirmation.)

groberts101 is right. The limitations are a) the way the marvell chip is connected and b) the chip itself.

Your benchmark score seem to be equivalent to the ones in the anandtech article. I guess that is as fast as the controller can be.

EDIT:

Also see this:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75491909

so with this marvell controller your reported speeds are normal.

 

[wpcoe]

the marvell chip has an INTERNAL 1 lane restriction. So, you could put that chip on a 16x card and it wouls till have the same speed.

If I put a PCIe 1x card in a PCIe 2.0 slot, would that improve upon the speed bottleneck that I currently have with the Marvell onboard chip on a PCIe 1.0 1x lane?

I found an PCIe add-in card here for about US$40, which I'm willing to use until I can upgrade to Ivy Bridge in a few months.

 

[taltamir]

If I put a PCIe 1x card in a PCIe 2.0 slot, would that improve upon the speed bottleneck that I currently have with the Marvell onboard chip on a PCIe 1.0 1x lane?

No.
PCIe comes in gen1, gen2, and gen3. they are backwards compatible, but will operate at the lowest speed.

gen2 slot with a gen1 card = gen1 operation.

the x indicates how many lanes you have. mobo slots typically come at 1, 4, or 16. (although any amount can be combined)

so a gen1 1x card has 1 single lane, operating at generation 1 speed. plugging it into a slot that has more x or more gen (eg: gen3 16x slot) will not help, it will operate as gen1 1x.

speeds:
gen2 = 2*gen1
gen3 = 2*gen2

 

[Cyrus9008]

How do you tell if your SATA controller is Marvell or not, I have a P8Z68-M Pro and just ordered a 1tb SATA III HDD. Was this a waste of time and money?

 

[Diogenes2]

Your board is pretty typical .. The user guide will identify the ports for you ..

2 x SATA 6.0 Gbps ports (white) supporting RAID 0/1/5/10 ( Intel )
4 x SATA 3.0 Gbps ports (light blue) supporting RAID 0/1/5/10 ( Intel )
2 x SATA 6.0 Gbps ports (dark blue) from Marvell

The Marvell will be an add-on to give you more ports..

Your SATA 3 drive will function well in the Intel ports .. Keep in mind that most SATA3 HDD's, show little gain over SATA2 .

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

I wouldn't pay money for a SATA 3 adapter on that SSD. It is still much better then any mechanical HDD and you really won't see all that much benefit from a pricy upgrade even if you do get full SATA 3 speeds.

 

[wpcoe]

No.
PCIe comes in gen1, gen2, and gen3. they are backwards compatible, but will operate at the lowest speed.

gen2 slot with a gen1 card = gen1 operation.

the x indicates how many lanes you have. mobo slots typically come at 1, 4, or 16. (although any amount can be combined)

so a gen1 1x card has 1 single lane, operating at generation 1 speed. plugging it into a slot that has more x or more gen (eg: gen3 16x slot) will not help, it will operate as gen1 1x.

Party pooper.

I was forgetting that the cards themselves were rated gen1, gen2, gen3.

The product info for the card my local distributor is trying to get, an ORICO PAS3062-2S SATAIII PCI-E express card, says "Fit for the standard PCI-Express 2.0 and SATA revision 3.0 standards." That might be just marketing talk referring to the backward compatibility of 2.0 slots for a 1.x device, or it might mean it is a PCIe 2.0 card. The price translates to ~US$46.

 

[paperwastage]

How do you tell if your SATA controller is Marvell or not, I have a P8Z68-M Pro and just ordered a 1tb SATA III HDD. Was this a waste of time and money?

a) 1155 mobos (the Z68 series especially) should have an Intel SATA III chip.... some boards add another Marvell SATA III chip to give you more than 2 SATA III ports, but kinda a waste

b) none/few of the (platter)HDDs even reach SATA II speeds, let alone SATA III (unless you do RAID and other stuff)

 

[BFG10K]

How do you tell if your SATA controller is Marvell or not, I have a P8Z68-M Pro and just ordered a 1tb SATA III HDD. Was this a waste of time and money?

It doesn't matter for a single mechanical HDD, except possibly for burst speed which doesn't mean much in the real world.