Is The UK Attacking Freedom Of Speech?

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Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,459
987
126
While we're at it, it also doesn't entitle you to any discounts for any of the US national parks, which also have the discretion to deny you entry.

Did you have any examples analogous to the individuals involved in this case (US taking positive steps to prevent people who ordinarily don't need visas from entering the US because of what they might say)?

Again the Visa waiver program DOES NOT DO AWAY WITH ADMISSIBILITY REQUIREMENTS. Under the visa waiver program you still have to met a countries admissibility requirements. So no need to specifically limit it to the visa waiver program. They have routinely denied various professors and other scholars from entry(Marxists, communists, recently it has been notable Islamic scholars).

UK law clearly allows the UK to do this. US law allows for it too.
 
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justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
The visa-waiver program itself is relevant (your loosely related visa waiver trivia/annotations less so) since there's a presumption that parties contracted to it are more or less kosher and its citizens ok to travel on a whim, without pre-approval, thereby in this case necessitating some kind of active response/action to ban them and notify them of this ban, instead of in the thus far only examples you mention of a passive/discretionary decision to reject a visa application from a citizen of a country the us already considers dubious/suspicious to begin with, and only upon this application.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,459
987
126
Just FYI as has already been said the US constitution does not only apply to US citizens in the US. The supreme court has spoken on this unequivocally.

Its not the simple when it comes immigration and the constitution. And yes someone has free speech while in the US, but that doesn't guarantee their speech/ideology won't get them barred from entry into the US, as the constitution only applies to those who have entered the US. If you are stopped at an immigration checkpoint and are denied entry YOU HAVE NOT entered the US(its a legal fiction).
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,459
987
126
The visa-waiver program itself is relevant (your loosely related visa waiver trivia/annotations less so) since there's a presumption that parties contracted to it are more or less kosher and its citizens ok to travel on a whim, without pre-approval, thereby in this case necessitating some kind of active response/action to ban them and notify them of this ban, instead of in the thus far only examples you mention of a passive/discretionary decision to reject a visa application from a citizen of a country the us already considers dubious/suspicious to begin with, and only upon this application.

YOU HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. PERIOD.

Visa waiver program does NOT guarantee entry, it waives the visa application and fee. You STILL MUST MEET ALL REQUIREMENTS OF ADMISSIBILITY.

In order to travel to the US on VWP, you must get authorization from the Electronic System for Travel Authorization(ESTA). The authorization via ESTA DOES NOT determine whether a traveler is admissible to the United States. U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers determine admissibility upon travelers’ arrival.

Whether you come on a Visa or through the VWP YOU MUST MEET THE SAME GOD DAMNED ADMISSIBILITY REQUIREMENTS. If you aren't admissible for entry it does not matter if you come from a VWP country or not. Plenty of citizens of VWP countries are inadmissible to the United State. I don't know what else to say.

Furthermore, the Feds have the ability to scan all social media and have denied people from VWP countries based on mere tweets.

Bottom line is, every country is a sovereign and a sovereign has the power to deny anyone entry into their country if the deem them inadmissible.
 
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beachchica

Member
Mar 10, 2013
162
0
0
Kind of awaited that since your various racist posts Allisolm but you are wrong, the only reason you find my adress to be swedish is because of something you mods enacted some time ago where my real adress acting as a server on the TOR network was banned, you can talk to Harvey about that.

Now since you are an outspoken racist, how about you stop hiding behind your moderator bullsheit and just come out and say it? You almost did once.

But hey, sieg heil to you to.

You are the funniest, most entertaining fraud I've ever run across on the internets. You're cute.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
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Every single one of their leaders, everyone who has ANY function in the EDL is represented in the criminal records.

They burn mosques, randomly attack little girls... They are a sheit of a gang.

Nice that you have Allisolms tounge up your arse though, i was wondering why you haven't been banned. Now i know.

Not all of them you liar and some of those charges are trumped up.


Nice that you have Allisolms tounge up your arse though, i was wondering why you haven't been banned. Now i know.

All Allisolm did was take you down for your stupidity and I wasn't being defended.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,211
597
126
The U.S. Congress has near complete power over naturalization and immigration within the U.S. jurisdiction. Even rank discriminations are permissible for that purpose. (though the Congress may not express such discriminatory purposes publicly, for PR reasons)

It looks like U.K. has a similar system to the U.S.? I know for certain that a suit like this won't succeed in the U.S. courts.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
76
If only she would bother taking you down for your blatant trolling.

You are quickly becoming obsessed with hatred for Incorruptible. I swear it is never more than 20-30 minutes of his post when you reply with nothing but vitriol. If you hate him so much, and really think he does nothing but troll, why must you always respond to him so quickly and reliably?

It seems like the rational and mature thing to do would be to simply ignore him, but since you aren't mature enough for that simple action, put him on ignore via the forum tool so that the software will do it for you.

It is like you stalk him, the majority of your posts are nothing but "you troll!, lol!" bs. Grow up.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,655
5,346
136
Kind of awaited that since your various racist posts Allisolm but you are wrong, the only reason you find my adress to be swedish is because of something you mods enacted some time ago where my real adress acting as a server on the TOR network was banned, you can talk to Harvey about that.

Now since you are an outspoken racist, how about you stop hiding behind your moderator bullsheit and just come out and say it? You almost did once.

But hey, sieg heil to you to.

Branching out into equal rights activist, good show. I assume we can expect an entire set of new lies to go along with this? Maybe show us your tattoo of Martin Luther King? I assume you grew up with him, or were you Malcolm X's high school teacher?

I can't wait to see what you come with.
 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,641
58
91
You are quickly becoming obsessed with hatred for Incorruptible. I swear it is never more than 20-30 minutes of his post when you reply with nothing but vitriol. If you hate him so much, and really think he does nothing but troll, why must you always respond to him so quickly and reliably?

It seems like the rational and mature thing to do would be to simply ignore him, but since you aren't mature enough for that simple action, put him on ignore via the forum tool so that the software will do it for you.

It is like you stalk him, the majority of your posts are nothing but "you troll!, lol!" bs. Grow up.

This is the second time you've said something like this to me, and the second time I will reply; I don't care.
I will continue until Incorruptible leaves or is banned.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
76
This is the second time you've said something like this to me, and the second time I will reply; I don't care.
I will continue until Incorruptible leaves or is banned.

So you are purposely reducing yourself, and devoting the majority of your posting efforts to attacking just one person? And you call someone else a troll? Yea, that seems both quite rational and what a mature man would do.

I bet you were the type to beatup 1st graders while in 5th grade, yet once someone of your size stood up to you, you ran away a coward.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,700
25,034
136
England can do what they want. That is the joy of being a sovereign nation. They don't have to admit anyone into their country. Now calling these two "human rights activists" is quite a stretch.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
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England can do what they want. That is the joy of being a sovereign nation. They don't have to admit anyone into their country. Now calling these two "human rights activists" is quite a stretch.

England does have the right to do this but it's horribly wrong. They allow in extremists and terrorists but these two get denied. The joys of multiculturalism and political correctness.

These people defend those who are victims of radical Islam and want the killing to stop.
 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,641
58
91
So you are purposely reducing yourself, and devoting the majority of your posting efforts to attacking just one person? And you call someone else a troll? Yea, that seems both quite rational and what a mature man would do.

I bet you were the type to beatup 1st graders while in 5th grade, yet once someone of your size stood up to you, you ran away a coward.

Nope, wrong again.

If you want to see it that way fine, I quit being rational about it when nothing has been done about his self admitted blatant trolling for more than a year.
If the mods won't do anything I will make his posting time spent here as annoying as I can.
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
Damn, I am responding to a troll thread...

Cause for relative outrage against the UK not found, as the OPs home country also denies entry based upon 'radical' and 'security' concerns. Britain has just cause to deny entry to those with a mission to incite prejudicial hatred against an entire religious group. Off the top of my head, here are some very lame precedents of the USA denying entry only due to very questionable political fear for censorship:

Farley Mowat

Mowat published a denunciation of "the destruction of animal life in the north Atlantic" entitled Sea of Slaughter in 1984. In 1985, as a part of the promotional tour for this book, Mowat accepted an invitation to speak at a university in Chico, California. However, U.S. customs officials at Lester B. Pearson International Airport in Toronto denied Mowat entry to the United States. They wouldn't tell him why specifically, but did tell him that it was because of a security file about him that indicated he should be denied entry "for violating any one of 33 statutes." Reportedly, these statutes included being a member of certain groups considered radical at that time by the U.S. government. The result was a media circus, which brought worldwide attention to Mowat. The negative publicity eventually forced the Reagan Administration to decide that Mowat was free to visit the United States but Mowat declined on the basis that he thought to accept it would be undignifying as the allowance was valid for only one visit—his book tour. Mowat documented the reasons why he was refused entry to the United States in his 1985 book, My Discovery of America.

Charlie Chaplin

The United States is to prevent the film legend, Charlie Chaplin, from returning to his Hollywood home until he has been investigated by the Immigration Services.
The Attorney-General, Thomas McGranery, has ordered the Immigration Service to hold Mr Chaplin "for hearings" if he returns to the United States, despite issuing him with a re-entry permit only a few months ago.

..

Under US law, grounds for denying a foreigner admission include "moral turpitude" and "political affiliations".


Charlie Chaplin has been under severe pressure in the US over accusations from Senator Joseph McCarthy and the House Un-American Activities Committee that he is associated with left-wing causes.
Mr Chaplin has been on the FBI's Security Index since 1948, and he was one of over 300 people blacklisted by Hollywood film studios and unable to work after he refused to cooperate when he appeared before the Committee.

Mariela Castro

The United States has turned down a request from the daughter of Cuba President Raul Castro to visit Philadelphia for a gay rights ceremony.
Mariela Castro was supposed to receive an award for her activism, The Associated Press reported. The State Department turned down her request on Thursday.

“We find it shocking that our State Department would deny freedom of speech, particularly at an international civil rights summit, to anyone, let alone the Cuban president’s daughter,” said Malcolm Lazin, executive director for the Equality Forum, in the AP report The group is hosting next week’s conference for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender civil rights.

The State Department declined to comment.

Ms. Castro is director of Cuba’s National Center for Sex Education and the country’s most well-known gay rights activist. She’s the niece of former leader Fidel Castro, who retired.
Relative laudable freedom by the USA? Not so.

As supported, yet another failed premise by one of this forum's worst trolls.
 
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Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
If i state the truth i'll get another infraction and possibly a ban. So i'll just say this- extremists shouldn't be allowed to contaminate free society. The results can be disastrous.
You reaffirm your position ('truth') but express fear in restating your hateful incitement to "kill all Muslims." [1] [2]

As those you condemn, you are a violent extremist. Should you be permitted to contaminate this society?

A conundrum. Do you abide by your decrees?
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
23,789
4,966
146
Kind of awaited that since your various racist posts Allisolm but you are wrong, the only reason you find my adress to be swedish is because of something you mods enacted some time ago where my real adress acting as a server on the TOR network was banned, you can talk to Harvey about that.

Now since you are an outspoken racist, how about you stop hiding behind your moderator bullsheit and just come out and say it? You almost did once.

But hey, sieg heil to you to.




Enough of the lies already.

I was never a mod that ever believed your story about British SAS. Some people and mods were fooled but it was only a matter of time until all the truth came out. And we never enacted anything of the sort. All we know is the lies you told as to why you were always posting from a TOR connection.

We mods just decided to post the link to the forum that has already outed you as a Swede.

People there on that forum already know. May as well have the members from Anandtech know the truth too.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=140590701&page=1


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
76
Enough of the lies already.

I was never a mod that ever believed your story about British SAS. Some people and mods were fooled but it was only a matter of time until all the truth came out. And we never enacted anything of the sort. All we know is the lies you told as to why you were always posting from a TOR connection.

We mods just decided to post the link to the forum that has already outed you as a Swede.

People there on that forum already know. May as well have the members from Anandtech know the truth too.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=140590701&page=1


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

I read that bodybuilding.com thread a year or two ago after several of us caught him flatout lying about guns and his supposed marksmanship skills. No idea why he keeps coming back, not my call to make so I never asked, but what really gets me is how often he is caught lying, yet keeps doubling down for more.

Hopefully this is the last of him and his lies and overly abrasive posting style that always derails threads.

Thank you. :thumbsup:
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
Just FYI as has already been said the US constitution does not only apply to US citizens in the US. The supreme court has spoken on this unequivocally.
so why are you being an idiot??
You know damn well that our freedom of speech does not apply in other countries where we might live..you being an idot for a reason??
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,989
8,701
136
UK has no classical constitution and thus is guided by the contemporary whims of whatever is popular with legislators. Freedom of speech is curtailed more in the UK than in the US.

That's irrelevant anyway as it would only apply after they had been let into the country.

Unless you're saying that immigration control is intrinsically a barrier to free speech, which I suppose is a valid point.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oCFu4MXoeKFDJBVMfPegvQqiDL91Q8jg_ZOyhe7VgV4/edit

This is the fourth time i've provided this to you.

You are telling me what you know better than me about my own nation?

Just piss off you retarded Nazist piece of sheit. Go back to stormfront where you belong.

It's no more your nation than it is Incorruptible's. You're not British. You don't live in England. If you wish to comment on the subject matter of the thread, fine, but cut the flag waving act unless the flag is Swedish.

Administrator allisolm

Could you just rename his account to JohanOfSweden already and get this nonsense over with? It's really disturbing to keep seeing you folks break his assumed identity in thread after thread and have him not acknowledge it. I prefer to get through reading the day's threads without being reminded that there are complete lunatics out there with me.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
You are quickly becoming obsessed with hatred for Incorruptible. I swear it is never more than 20-30 minutes of his post when you reply with nothing but vitriol. If you hate him so much, and really think he does nothing but troll, why must you always respond to him so quickly and reliably?

It seems like the rational and mature thing to do would be to simply ignore him, but since you aren't mature enough for that simple action, put him on ignore via the forum tool so that the software will do it for you.

It is like you stalk him, the majority of your posts are nothing but "you troll!, lol!" bs. Grow up.

I'm surprised that crackrabbit is allowed to stalk and troll.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
I read that bodybuilding.com thread a year or two ago after several of us caught him flatout lying about guns and his supposed marksmanship skills. No idea why he keeps coming back, not my call to make so I never asked, but what really gets me is how often he is caught lying, yet keeps doubling down for more.

Hopefully this is the last of him and his lies and overly abrasive posting style that always derails threads.

Thank you. :thumbsup:

LMAO!!!! Without a doubt they are one in the same.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=140590701&p=801360511&viewfull=1#post801360511
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
I read that bodybuilding.com thread a year or two ago after several of us caught him flatout lying about guns and his supposed marksmanship skills. No idea why he keeps coming back, not my call to make so I never asked, but what really gets me is how often he is caught lying, yet keeps doubling down for more.

Hopefully this is the last of him and his lies and overly abrasive posting style that always derails threads.

Thank you. :thumbsup:

I have heard a little bit about John and his lying but what exactly happened and does anyone have any links to the threads?

As to the OP Geller and Spencer must be allowed into Britain where they will PEACEFULLY protest.
 
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