Is the USA becoming more Christian?

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: Legend
Just in my experience, the hardcore Christians tend to be sheltered, and were raised on it. Typically from the country, and know less about the world. I've never met a fundamentalist that was raised something else.

Why are fundamentalists "harder" than other Christians?

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: raildogg
I don't think it is, but even if it was, is that a bad thing?

All depends - have you EVER seen any religous, fundamentalist government succeed in the long run? Religious states always get held for ransom by those that can claim to be "most religious". That is what is happening in Iran, where a handful of mullahs eliminated a reform movement that would have freed that country and moved it towards the West. That is why the 5-10% of Israeli populations who are ultra-Orthdox can prevent the government from taking appropriate action to cede land and settle for peace, that is what has happened across history.

Perhaps most importantly, once you begin to optimize your country for one set of rules (religious adherence), you sub-optimize for other areas (like economic progress or military effectiveness). Hitler would have had the atomic bomb first in WWII...except that so many nuke scientists were Jewish! What do you do when the best person for a job is openly gay, and you are living in a religious state? You certainly don't give them the job...you take second best personnel.

What do we do with all of the Indian scientists and engineers that have come to the US, usually Hindu, who now help drive our nation's technological advance? Do we ask them to convert, or to return home to India? Or accept living as second-class citizens with fewer rights, and a more limited voice in the government than Christians?

The list goes on and on...the US is a great country because we turn a blind eye to religion, because we are not prejudiced against anyone's religious heritage, and because we can harness the best and brightest regardless of what god they follow, if any. If any one religion makes it obvious that this is no longer the case...well then, we will have some momentum for half a generation perhaps, but long-term this would only serve to accelerate the decline of America.

Future Shock

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: przero
There is absolutely no "reqiurement to be ""converted"" to be served". Where do you people dream this up? We (the dreaded Southern Baptist) fed 9000 people a day in LaPlace, La. in conjunction with the Salvation Army. A gospel tract was simply offered if you said "no thanks" it was no problem. The people pulled up in line in cars where we gave them hot meals, cold drinking, groceries, bottled water, soap, toothpaste, wash cloths, towels, loaded in their cars, they never got outside in the heat! We have a food tent set up in Johnson's Bayou, La. where I was today, where we give out about 300 boxes of food a day to ANYONE who asks. If they call, we deliver. Our "mega-church" (5000 members) raised approximately $385,000 for relief efforts exclusively. We closed down all programs except Sunday A.M. worship services because we took 900 evacuees from lower New Orleans for 2-1/2 months. Our members worked to serve them to get their lives back in order, not to force our "religion" on them.

Actually it was a huge scandal during the tsunami relief, with numerous documented cases resulting in anti-conversion laws being proposed in many affected areas.

example

Obviously most groups were rendering in aid in (dare I pun it) 'good faith' (I dared). Still, it is nothing new to see this kind of behavior from various religious groups (not just Christian). Religion, in general, is a thing of vileness and hatred. Faith can be beautiful, religion seldom is.

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: themusgrat

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: ntdz
I don't think it's getting more religious...I just think the Christians are getting more outspoken because they are starting to feel threatened because society is moving away from religion.

qft

No, we are being pretty much the same.

If you advocate gay marriage, you are not advocating the status quo.
Not as if that is a bad thing, just an example of secularism pushing its views on state.

Nations should be secular. Mythology like Christianity has no place politics and the law. Theist can worship all they want, but when they start using their fairy tales to justify laws then it going to far.

 

[Legend]

Originally posted by: CSMR

Originally posted by: Legend
Just in my experience, the hardcore Christians tend to be sheltered, and were raised on it. Typically from the country, and know less about the world. I've never met a fundamentalist that was raised something else.

Why are fundamentalists "harder" than other Christians?

Because they tend to be less tolerant, and put more focus on the Old Testament. They've typically lived their entire lives believing in their view of the Bible as an absolute truth. When they go out into the real world and see people with different beliefs, they act like it's a crime. They want to push all of their beliefs on everyone else through the government because they believe in it so much that they think they can supress people's rights.

Some of them think that this nation was founded on Christianity, when it wasn't at all. This nation was founded on enlightenment liberalism. While Christianity was a very common religion, it wasn't what our law was based on. Fundamentalists like to rewrite history.

 

[kage69]

. as for the church promoting capitalist ideas, i disagree with that assertion as well.

I don't think there is any higher method of promotion than actual practice. I've seen churches market everything from key chains made with stone from the Holy Land, designer bottles of 'blessed' water, to interactive biblical study CDs. Pat Robertson will gladly send you a batch of his miracle pancake batter too, order now, supplies are limited!

Enjoy your religion, but please, get a clue.

Some of them think that this nation was founded on Christianity, when it wasn't at all. This nation was founded on enlightenment liberalism. While Christianity was a very common religion, it wasn't what our law was based on. Fundamentalists like to rewrite history.

Damn straight. And the resistance to their re-writing attempts is what fuels their persecution complex. It's pathetic. Our founding fathers would be rolling in their graves if they were able to see what the religious right has done to our country.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: kage69

Damn straight. And the resistance to their re-writing attempts is what fuels their persecution complex. It's pathetic. Our founding fathers would be rolling in their graves if they were able to see what the religious right has done to our country.

The founding fathers would also be rolling in their graves over several other items, such as women's rights, civil liberties, and many other liberal ideas that would not even have been considered in their time. The founding fathers were great men, but their ideas of freedom and government are a far cry from the current conditions in more than just the "religious resistance." Does that make them bad men? No. But making a comparison with their opinion on religious movements only while not comparing their opinion on anything else is rather pointless.

 

[Shuxclams]

Is the USA becoming more Christian?

FoxNews would have you think that Amerika is 98.9% Right/Wrong Wing Christian.... hence Alito=Middle









SHUX

 

[kage69]

The founding fathers would also be rolling in their graves over several other items, such as women's rights, civil liberties, and many other liberal ideas that would not even have been considered in their time. The founding fathers were great men, but their ideas of freedom and government are a far cry from the current conditions in more than just the "religious resistance." Does that make them bad men? No. But making a comparison with their opinion on religious movements only while not comparing their opinion on anything else is rather pointless.

I'm not representing their opinion, I'm stating mine given what I know about them and our country's past and present. If you want to discuss what they might have thought about say, current day social programs or civil liberties, great, go and start another thread about it. This one is about the US and it's christian leaning tendancies, and that's what I was addressing.
Rest assured though, I hold no illusions that they were perfect human beings, many of them owning slaves for instance. But I think it's safe to say tyranny was the top dog on their list of evils (afterall, we took on THE global badass over it), and thus would produce a stronger sense of outrage than say, slavery, which in their day was already spoken out against in many of the colonies.
We now have a president who considers himself somewhat above the law, and who has derailed the entire concept of checks and balances, a construct the fathers were rightfully quite proud of. I doubt Bush would still be in office today had it not been for the profound polarization of America, which was quite religious in nature. "Faith and values" anyone?
Jefferson believed the division of church and state was essential for freedom. I seriously doubt that, were he alive today, women voting would be what would send him in a frenzy. We know he sure didn't have a problem with interracial trists, and hell that's something STILL relatively taboo in certain areas.

Last I checked, historians still give ancient Greece credit for democracy, yet we know their demokratia was a far cry from what it is today. Does that render anything hypothetical in regards to their historical and political contributions pointless?

I firmly believe Franklin, Hamilton, Jefferson etc would be outraged were they able to see how our country has changed these last 50 years or so, the recent few particulary so.




ok, must sleep now, have to drive thru lots of snow in a few hours!

 

[stinkz]

The U.S. is wisely moving to the right. Whether or not that means more people are becoming Christians, I have no clue.

 

[robains]

Define "right" and then please define "left" -- those terms vary over the decades -- actually those terms don't have much meaning at all -- I'd dare to say most people have a little of both.

I think the US is becoming more Christian, just as Muslims are becoming more Fundamentalist Muslims. If human life does succeed in exterminating itself, it will all be in the name of "faith" -- the sooner people do away with any and all religions, the sooner we can get onto solving real problems.

Rob.

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: robains
Define "right" and then please define "left" -- those terms vary over the decades -- actually those terms don't have much meaning at all -- I'd dare to say most people have a little of both.

I think the US is becoming more Christian, just as Muslims are becoming more Fundamentalist Muslims. If human life does succeed in exterminating itself, it will all be in the name of "faith" -- the sooner people do away with any and all religions, the sooner we can get onto solving real problems.

Rob.

:thumbsup:

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: stinkz
The U.S. is wisely moving to the right. Whether or not that means more people are becoming Christians, I have no clue.

Neo-cons are right huh?

What is a good ol classic conservative then? cause that ain't right if Neo-cons are right.

They should take the "conservative" out of Neo-conservative anyway. Just another group of people all in debt to their eyeballs that like to make easy to pop bubbles like the ones we have here now.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: kage69

I'm not representing their opinion, I'm stating mine given what I know about them and our country's past and present. If you want to discuss what they might have thought about say, current day social programs or civil liberties, great, go and start another thread about it. This one is about the US and it's christian leaning tendancies, and that's what I was addressing.
Rest assured though, I hold no illusions that they were perfect human beings, many of them owning slaves for instance. But I think it's safe to say tyranny was the top dog on their list of evils (afterall, we took on THE global badass over it), and thus would produce a stronger sense of outrage than say, slavery, which in their day was already spoken out against in many of the colonies.
We now have a president who considers himself somewhat above the law, and who has derailed the entire concept of checks and balances, a construct the fathers were rightfully quite proud of. I doubt Bush would still be in office today had it not been for the profound polarization of America, which was quite religious in nature. "Faith and values" anyone?
Jefferson believed the division of church and state was essential for freedom. I seriously doubt that, were he alive today, women voting would be what would send him in a frenzy. We know he sure didn't have a problem with interracial trists, and hell that's something STILL relatively taboo in certain areas.

Last I checked, historians still give ancient Greece credit for democracy, yet we know their demokratia was a far cry from what it is today. Does that render anything hypothetical in regards to their historical and political contributions pointless?

I firmly believe Franklin, Hamilton, Jefferson etc would be outraged were they able to see how our country has changed these last 50 years or so, the recent few particulary so.

ok, must sleep now, have to drive thru lots of snow in a few hours!

Agreed. I also feel the founding fathers to be great individuals. A main purpose for the colonization of America was religious freedom. Wasn't the only reason, but was a big one. This being said, I do believe it is very important to allow people to exercise religion in any way they see fit, laws permitting. However, I think they'd be equally offended by the idea of abolishing religion all together.

I do firmly believe we could benefit greatly from men of their caliber in government today. They did what they did for the right reasons.

 

[ElFenix]

i doubt it. i think they're becoming move vocal. the 'religious right' simply was not active in politics until the 1980s. there was no such thing. and the reason they're so important is that they will simply refuse to vote and let Democrats win if the Republicans don't do exactly what they want (unlike much of the Democrat base which will vote for Democrats merely to keep the republicans from winning).

 

[piasabird]

Maybe it is just a correction due to the media forcing liberal issues down people's throats whether we are interested or not. I think that is what is going on in Canada right now. The government gets too liberal and too out of hand and the people start fighting back.

 

[kage69]

Agreed. I also feel the founding fathers to be great individuals. A main purpose for the colonization of America was religious freedom. Wasn't the only reason, but was a big one. This being said, I do believe it is very important to allow people to exercise religion in any way they see fit, laws permitting. However, I think they'd be equally offended by the idea of abolishing religion all together.

Who's talking about abolishing religion all together?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: ntdz
I don't think it's getting more religious...I just think the Christians are getting more outspoken because they are starting to feel threatened because society is moving away from religion.

qft

qqft

 

[stateofbeasley]

I don't think its a matter of getting too liberal. When freedom gets taken away, either by nanny-state liberals or gestapo conservatives, people are going to fight back. Nobody wants 50% of their paycheck going to the government, and nobody wants their phone tapped.

Is the USA becoming more Christian? I would say no -- it is just that some groups of Protestants feel that they need to restrict other people's freedom in order to satisfy their vision of religious morality. The issue of gay marriage is one example.

Originally posted by: piasabird
Maybe it is just a correction due to the media forcing liberal issues down people's throats whether we are interested or not. I think that is what is going on in Canada right now. The government gets too liberal and too out of hand and the people start fighting back.