Is there a reason to work beyond "just enough not to get fired?"

[IndyColtsFan]

Have you figured out what your goal in life is ? I'm not talking about what you want to make in money but what you think you need to be happy . This is a big issue with me because I did what a lot of people do. Went to college, got the career focused on it and had serious money coming in , $300K+ , but I thought I needed to do more and it almost caused me to go insane. I was lucky that a good friend asked me what I was doing it all for. What good was all that stress and worry if I died in a car wreck tomorrow.

I am not saying people should not work hard or be dedicated, but make sure you are stressing yourself out for the right reasons.

Those are good questions. Deep down inside, I know that money doesn't indicate your value as a person and is not always the way to happiness. I guess I have concerns because I think I should have achieved more in life by now. I'm down on myself a lot because I was always a really successful student in high school, college, and grad school, but I got burned out and changed professions from engineering to IT because I thought I would enjoy it more. I do enjoy it but the nagging part of my brain says that I need to start moving up and doing more.

I make a good living, but I'd like more challenge and a little more money coming in. I don't think I am C-level material necessarily (I think I am capable, but I think my family is more important and don't want to dedicate the time for it), but I think I should be doing more in life.

I recently accepted a developer position so I am hoping that I can attain expert-level development skills in my particular area (Sharepoint) and then maybe use that as a springboard to a higher-paying job elsewhere in a few short years. In the meantime, I want to try to focus on weaknesses and work on those too and maybe in a few years, I will succeed. Maybe if I see higher-level positions posted, I should just apply -- if nothing else, if I get the interviews, it might give me good interview practice.

I am open to suggestions and hope someone here can light a spark and give me some great ideas. I was actually going to post a thread about it but this thread seems like an ideal discussion.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Education is not about achieving the certification, it is about increasing your education and skills. The strength of any certification like an MBA depends entirely on how much effort was put into learning the material. A person can sit in class and pass the tests or they can focus and *learn* the material. A person is worth more when they actually *learn* the material.

A friend of mine went to a local, no-name, private university for his MBA. The reputation of this school is not good. However, he *learned* the material and has used his education to great benefit. As a mechanical engineer B.S. with a no-name MBA, he has worked his way into a solid businessman in a top executive position wherever he goes.

But that's just it -- I know many people who got their MBAs and are very knowledgeable, but they can't find jobs. And these are guys with MBAs from recognized schools, so I am a little gun shy.

 

[child of wonder]

Welcome to the workforce where you work just to have a job, not for enjoyment. I hate my job as well and am hovering between acceptable and unacceptable. Hell, I don't even care if they fire me right now since I hate my job that much and it'll force me to look for something new. This place has pretty much beaten the spirit out of me. I also envy the people who enjoy or find enjoyment at their workplace.

Same here.

I came into my current job with expectations that haven't materialized. I'm a VMware Certified Professional but never get to touch VMware (but the new guy does!) and instead spend my days supporting back apps, FTP, etc.

Looking to leave ASAMFP.

 

[lxskllr]

Those are good questions. Deep down inside, I know that money doesn't indicate your value as a person and is not always the way to happiness. I guess I have concerns because I think I should have achieved more in life by now. I'm down on myself a lot because I was always a really successful student in high school, college, and grad school, but I got burned out and changed professions from engineering to IT because I thought I would enjoy it more. I do enjoy it but the nagging part of my brain says that I need to start moving up and doing more.

I make a good living, but I'd like more challenge and a little more money coming in. I don't think I am C-level material necessarily (I think I am capable, but I think my family is more important and don't want to dedicate the time for it), but I think I should be doing more in life.

I recently accepted a developer position so I am hoping that I can attain expert-level development skills in my particular area (Sharepoint) and then maybe use that as a springboard to a higher-paying job elsewhere in a few short years. In the meantime, I want to try to focus on weaknesses and work on those too and maybe in a few years, I will succeed. Maybe if I see higher-level positions posted, I should just apply -- if nothing else, if I get the interviews, it might give me good interview practice.

I am open to suggestions and hope someone here can light a spark and give me some great ideas. I was actually going to post a thread about it but this thread seems like an ideal discussion.

Bottom line is money doesn't buy you shit. You need to love what you're doing, or it isn't worth it. You have 80 years +/- on this rock, do you really want to spend all that time in drudgery?

I'm currently unemployed, but have done land surveying for the last 25 years or so. I can't imagine spending the rest of my life doing this work. I'm trying to get a low level IT position where I can work with computers hands on.

You know what the perfect job would be for me if their policies weren't so lame? BestBuy Geek Squad. I'd like to do that work, but maybe in a small office setting. The pay would be shite, but I enjoy troubleshooting problems, and coming up with solutions that aren't typical.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Bottom line is money doesn't buy you shit. You need to love what you're doing, or it isn't worth it. You have 80 years +/- on this rock, do you really want to spend all that time in drudgery?

I'm currently unemployed, but have done land surveying for the last 25 years or so. I can't imagine spending the rest of my life doing this work. I'm trying to get a low level IT position where I can work with computers hands on.

You know what the perfect job would be for me if their policies weren't so lame? BestBuy Geek Squad. I'd like to do that work, but maybe in a small office setting. The pay would be shite, but I enjoy troubleshooting problems, and coming up with solutions that aren't typical.

You're right -- I could work my ass off and land the promotion and money i want, and it could be a nightmare. Maybe I should just be happy and enjoy the fact that I currently make good money, have relatively low stress and good hours, and leave it at that. I work for an awesome place with killer benefits and great perks, but no upward mobility. I knew going in that there was really no upward mobility and that was fine at the time, but lately, I just want more. So, I had an opportunity presented to me last fall and as a result, I'm moving from a Network/Systems Engineer to a Sharepoint Developer so hopefully I will at least get the challenge I am after.

 

[lxskllr]

You're right -- I could work my ass off and land the promotion and money i want, and it could be a nightmare. Maybe I should just be happy and enjoy the fact that I currently make good money, have relatively low stress and good hours, and leave it at that. I work for an awesome place with killer benefits and great perks, but no upward mobility. I knew going in that there was really no upward mobility and that was fine at the time, but lately, I just want more. So, I had an opportunity presented to me last fall and as a result, I'm moving from a Network/Systems Engineer to a Sharepoint Developer so hopefully I will at least get the challenge I am after.

Low stress, and goods hours is where it's at. I couldn't count the number of better paying jobs I've turned down over the years because they would have negatively affected my standard of living. The way I see it, Bill Gates doesn't have enough money to pay me for my time, so I'm going to pick the job that leaves more time for me.

Maybe if you want a challenge, take it on privately. There's tons of things you can do to challenge yourself mentally and physically in your free time. After awhile things become routine, and you'll become unchallenged again. I honestly wouldn't worry about it. If you like the people you work with, and the company is good to you, you've struck gold. You have more than 80% of the population's got :^)

 

[ahurtt]

I'd give free handjobs if someone would ever hire me. :'(

As luck would have it I happen to have an opening for a personal hand-job-giver. The fact that you're willing to work for free pretty much makes you the ideal candidate for the job! You can report in for work on Monday! Congratulations, you're hired!

(Oh, and. . .bring a towel.)

 

[LittleNemoNES]

I love my job

I basically decide how I want to improve and implement new tech.

My bosses see that I enjoy what I do and that it yields results. Therefore they are completely hands off.

Definitely don't burn yourself out, though.

 

[Modelworks]

I guess I have concerns because I think I should have achieved more in life by now. I'm down on myself a lot because I was always a really successful student in high school, college, and grad school, but I got burned out and changed professions from engineering to IT because I thought I would enjoy it more. I do enjoy it but the nagging part of my brain says that I need to start moving up and doing more.

Very familiar with that feeling. The things is when you start thinking you should have achieved more in life stop yourself and ask compared to who ? Who are are you comparing yourself to that has achieved more and do they share the same goals and values ?

If we start feeling we should be doing more, then there has to be something in our brain using someone or something for the comparison. For me it was I wanted to prove I was better than what people I grew up with said I could be. I had made up some fictional mountain that once I had climbed and reached the summit my life would somehow be complete , I found out that mountain was an illusion and that in reality I was hanging off a cliff.

 

[TehMac]

I hope my new job requires me to do next to nothing. I'm going to be doing IT for a govt research facility. They seem pretty laid back, during my interview the guy thats going to be my boss said it takes them forever to get anything done and don't really care if the people get mad about it... I think I'm going to like my first post grad job.

Wow, you have no self respect...or respect for anything else.

 

[Farang]

I just hit my marks and go home. I do good work, but I've learned not to go above and beyond whats expected because you only end up raising expectations without recieving any kind of reward.

 

[EagleKeeper]

1) You screwed yourself w/ respect to the company because of your "bad ass" attitude for the first two years. And management can tell that you are only putting in the amount of effort needed to maintain your job - not to improve the company.

2) The company may have a problem in that management does not want to groom the next in line. Someone upstairs may look at the quality of work coming from the manager and boot them if there is a replacement available.

 

[ahurtt]

Wow. Just wow. It's just uncanny how some of the sentiments from some of the folks in this thread are as if they are inside my head reading my mind. I've actually sat here and read the whole thread because the sentiments of the OP resonated so profoundly with me. I too started off in my job with my current company almost 9.5 years ago now full of enthusiasm and vigor and really giving it my all. I quickly built a reputation as being the go-to guy so to speak. Highly competent and efficient, great reviews and liked and respected by coworkers and all that stuff. In short. . .I actually cared back then. But for whatever reason whenever it came to be raise time or promotion time there was always some reason why there was never quite enough in the budget or there was some kind of sudden salary freeze or some other bullshit. So I learned to stop trying after about the first 4 or 5 years. . .I'm a slower learner than some of you guys I guess. The point being, this attitude is learned behavior. We didn't start off this way. . .at least I didn't.

It didn't help that I'd have a new manager every year to year and a half so every time one middle manager I reported to would quit or climb on up the corporate ladder, some new guy would replace him and it'd be like starting all over again. Out the window went your past accomplishments and all first-hand recollection of them with the guy who did your last annual evaluation. So now when the new guy comes along by this time he just sees a poor schmuck who has given up and has learned that there's no benefit to going the extra mile. He never knew the guy who actually cared. And so it just continues in a vicious downward spiral. So now here we are. . .deadlocked. In a stalemate. Me refusing to give any more because of learned behavior from past experience and the company refusing to spend any more money on or promote a guy who just does the bare minimum it takes to keep from being fired. . .an under-performing asset so to speak. They have forgotten all the years where I really kicked ass and took names and they gave me approximately jack and shit in return in terms of market based compensation or advancement. It is a situation that can be sort of humorously summed up by a comic strip I once saw. In it there is a very cold looking man sitting shivering on a log outside in the middle of winter. .. ice and snow are all around and there is a little wood burning stove in front of him obviously sort of smoldering and not putting out very much heat. The man is saying to the stove, "You start putting out more heat and then maybe I'll give you more wood."

And for too long I stayed and for too long I have been resigned and complacent, pretending that this state of affairs is ok. . .and for some people it probably is. But I can't do it any more because it isn't who I am. Too long now I have let resentment and bitterness well up inside me. I think the only course of action I have left to remedy my situation at this point is to simply move on and start over someplace new. Here I am pigeon-holed. My mold is cast. I'll never be more than what management sees me as so long as I stay and there's always some new kid who hasn't learned yet who will be along tomorrow or the next day, grateful to have the chance to be made a sucker of for a few years just like I was until he too becomes just like me and you. I've seen it happen to so many now. It seems sad but almost inevitable. Basically I have lost my sense of purpose and derive no satisfaction out of the job any more. I've probably long overstayed my useful life here. This place is where people come to retire I have realized, either mentally or actually. I still got a good 25 years at least ahead of me in the work force. I can't go out like this. . .it's too soon.

EDIT: Sorry for wall of text, edited to break it into paragraphs. . .just typing stream of consciousness. . .lots of thoughts I wanted to get off my mind. . .thanks.

 

[chusteczka]

<snip>

It sounds like it is time for you to move on. Take charge of your career and do so.

A company will let you languish for as long as you perform. It is up to you to ensure they fit your needs, not the other way around.

 

[masterxfob]

money is the nastiest curse brought upon mankind.

we want lots of it, but the more we get, the unhappier we become. we just need to find the right balance of money and work that we can be content with, even if it means sacrificing some of the unneeded luxuries in life.

i went through the same thing and it always boiled down to the money. i felt that the amount of time and dedication i put in was never worth what i was getting paid. lack of a raise and a shitty year end bonus, so i said fuck it.

now, i do what i enjoy. i'm not exactly making enough money to support myself doing that alone so i supplement it with some contract work. while i don't particularly like it, i don't dislike it either. that and i get to choose how much i work and when i work. sure, i can't afford to drive a fancy new car or spend $100 on dinner, but i have very little to complain about. for me at least, it's all about the simple things.

 

[DarkWarrior2]

Believe it or not - there are some companies out there that just don't care how good of a worker you are. You can have the best attitude, the best work ethic, be the best at your job - and the bosses just couldn't care less.

For example, at one of my previous tech jobs, I busted my hump big time. I worked long hours, did everything I was asked, took initiative, and always did the best I could to better the company. I solved problems and saved the company money.

I actually enjoyed the work at first, as well. But then I got a "promotion" - same pay, different hours, doing non-technical work. I was dumped into an office clerk's position - shipping, purchasing, inventory, data-entry, etc. Work that I had no interest in.

I still busted my hump, however, and my workload increased significantly. My stress levels went up as well. I think that I actually may have burned out. I discussed the matter with management, but they didn't do much. Eventually they put me in a mindless "tech" position - swapping hard drives. Give me a break. Only after I realized that I was getting shafted, did I start to slow down. No more busting my hump.

I was eventually fired, with no logical reason given.

I did have to train someone before I was let go. I assume that he made less money than me. He quit in three months.

It's sad, really. A prime example of how hard work doesn't pay. But I was very naive when I took this job. Boy, did I learn my lesson.

Scrooge McDuck said: "Work smarter, not harder!"

Edit: I didn't make much money at this job either - just over 30k. I thought that I could work my way up, like in the movies...

I haven't given up though. I'm going to start a new career from scratch, and be my own boss from now on.

 

[AlienCraft]

No, not really.

You've learned what the rest of the US workforce has learned - companies don't give a shit about you.

truth here

 

[ahurtt]

It sounds like it is time for you to move on. Take charge of your career and do so.

A company will let you languish for as long as you perform. It is up to you to ensure they fit your needs, not the other way around.

Yes I think I have reached a similar conclusion now so all that is left is finding the courage and motivation to break the complacency, get up off my ass, leave my comfort zone and do something about it. It will be easier said than done but do it I must. I've talked about it like this for too long now with no action and I've always prided myself on being a man of my word. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[StageLeft]

Depends on your position. At times that makes sense but don't think you'll be making much headway in the company if you do.

 

[daw123]

money is the nastiest curse brought upon mankind.

I agree.

 

[ahurtt]

money is the nastiest curse brought upon mankind.

we want lots of it, but the more we get, the unhappier we become. we just need to find the right balance of money and work that we can be content with, even if it means sacrificing some of the unneeded luxuries in life.

i went through the same thing and it always boiled down to the money. i felt that the amount of time and dedication i put in was never worth what i was getting paid. lack of a raise and a shitty year end bonus, so i said fuck it.

now, i do what i enjoy. i'm not exactly making enough money to support myself doing that alone so i supplement it with some contract work. while i don't particularly like it, i don't dislike it either. that and i get to choose how much i work and when i work. sure, i can't afford to drive a fancy new car or spend $100 on dinner, but i have very little to complain about. for me at least, it's all about the simple things.

There is a decent book about just this topic this called "Your Money or Your Life."
Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Your-Money-Lif...3647308&amp;sr=1-1

From all outward appearances to everybody else, I should have little to complain about. But that's because when they look at me what they see is a guy who works for a well known Fortune 500 company that's pretty high up there on the list, has a 5 mile one way daily commute, and is making more than either one of his parents made at their retirements after only 10 years (and both my parents hold graduate degrees). But what they can't understand is that this is not a sustainable situation for me for the next 25 years of my life. They are only seeing the here and now, not projecting down the road to where this path will take me. They are not in my shoes and they can't see from my vantage point. In this industry you evolve or die.

Here I am just slowly dying, slowly getting poorer because of a salary that is under market and a rate of increase that does not keep up with inflation. Sure to maybe half the people in America, heck maybe even 3/4, I'd be considered highly compensated. But that's not how the human brain works. All I see is that compared to peers and people elsewhere with lesser experience and qualifications, I'm making less than they are. It is hard to step back and look at the big picture and count how lucky I am to make as much as I do when so many others have to eek by on half as much or less. . .but then again. . .is it really luck? No. I earned it. I worked for it (well I did in the beginning anyway until the corporate world taught me how silly that notion was). I set it up this way on purpose. It didn't just fall in my lap. I saw what I wanted and I went after it and I got it. But then I guess I let the system get me down, I became disillusioned, and I stopped trying...got complacent. It became easier to bitch and moan than to take action. But I think things are really coming to a head now. They've gone too far. Painted with too broad a brush. I don't belong here. I belong someplace where my contribution matters and I can make a difference. I guess I'm rambling. . .'nuff outta me now.

 

[ebaycj]

Yesterday, with a wave of a magic wand, I just single-handedly fixed our massive transaction processing database that had been broken (overly slow for no reason) for 8 years (I've been there less than 1 year). This allows significant benefit to my company's business processes going forward (real time orders, real time inventory), as well as at least a million dollars of cost avoidance. At this point, I could probably surf the web for a whole year and still pull a paycheck, raise and bonus.

 

[ahurtt]

Yesterday, with a wave of a magic wand, I just single-handedly fixed our massive transaction processing database that had been broken (overly slow for no reason) for 8 years (I've been there less than 1 year). This allows significant benefit to my company's business processes going forward (real time orders, real time inventory), as well as at least a million dollars of cost avoidance. At this point, I could probably surf the web for a whole year and still pull a paycheck, raise and bonus.

Except that in doing so you made everybody else there look stupid and incompetent and now they are all threatened by you. Congratulations! You are the one smart guy in a room full of incompetents. That makes you the odd guy out. One of two things will happen now. You'll end up doing everybody else's jobs because you're the only person who is actually competent where you work or else you'll be pigeon holed into some menial mindless job off in a dark corner someplace where you can't continue to make your manager look stupid and ineffective.

 

[DarkWarrior2]

Except that in doing so you made everybody else there look stupid and incompetent and now they are all threatened by you. Congratulations! You are the one smart guy in a room full of incompetents. That makes you the odd guy out. One of two things will happen now. You'll end up doing everybody else's jobs because you're the only person who is actually competent where you work or else you'll be pigeon holed into some menial mindless job off in a dark corner someplace where you can't continue to make your manager look stupid and ineffective.

Wow - maybe that's what happened at my old tech job. Or maybe it's just my ego. :awe:

 

[JEDI]

That's a pretty sweet job. The worst job I ever had was one that would run short of work on a regular basis, and we were not allowed to use the internet to screw around. After doing everything that could be done, I was left with nothing to do. There's no internet and I can't just stand there looking ridiculous, so I would take a tour of the plant, take a 30 minute bathroom break, "check" paperwork that has already been signed by QA, take another 30 minute bathroom break, etc. Not working is so much harder than working.

same here at old job.

laptop + analog phone line FTW!

i played Diablo II on Blizzard's battleNet for 4hrs/day at work using 56k dialup. i would create a char from scratch, get him to lvl32 to get that optimum imbue for uber weapons and armor.

And on Fri, go out and watch the new movie that came out that day, at the noon showing.