Is there a simpler explanation for the recent spat of shout downs at town hall meetings?

SAWYER

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,745
42
91
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped...alth-care-debate-.html

While I have no doubt some of these people are there with a motive, it is absurd to dismiss all of them. I wonder what she thinks about Hillary a few years back saying she thinks it's just fine to stand up and voice opposition to the government?
Americans have been waiting for nearly a century for quality, affordable health care.

Health coverage for all was on the national agenda as early as 1912, thanks to

Teddy Roosevelt's Bull Moose presidential run. Months after

World War II came to an end in 1945,

President Harry Truman called on Congress to guarantee all Americans the "right to adequate medical care and protection from the economic fears of sickness." From President

Lyndon Johnson to

President Bill Clinton, to President

Obama's winning campaign on the promise of reform, there hasn't been a more debated domestic issue than the promise of affordable health care for all.

(Steny Hoyer/USA TODAY)

(Nancy Pelosi/USA TODAY)

We believe it is healthy for such a historic effort to be subject to so much scrutiny and debate. The failure of past attempts is a reminder that health insurance reform is a defining moment in our nation's history ? it is well worth the time it takes to get it right. We are confident that we will get this right.

Already, three House committees have passed this critical legislation and over August, the two of us will work closely with those three committees to produce one strong piece of legislation that the House will approve in September.

In the meantime, as members of Congress spend time at home during August, they are talking with their constituents about reform. The dialogue between elected representatives and constituents is at the heart of our democracy and plays an integral role in assuring that the legislation we write reflects the genuine needs and concerns of the people we represent.

However, it is now evident that an ugly campaign is underway not merely to misrepresent the health insurance reform legislation, but to disrupt public meetings and prevent members of Congress and constituents from conducting a civil dialogue. These tactics have included hanging in effigy one Democratic member of Congress in Maryland and protesters holding a sign displaying a tombstone with the name of another congressman in Texas, where protesters also shouted "Just say no!" drowning out those who wanted to hold a substantive discussion.

Let the facts be heard

These disruptions are occurring because opponents are afraid not just of differing views ? but of the facts themselves. Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. Drowning out the facts is how we failed at this task for decades.

Health care is complex. It touches every American life. It drives our economy. People must be allowed to learn the facts.

The first fact is that health insurance reform will mean more patient choice. It will allow every American who likes his or her current plan to keep it. And it will free doctors and patients to make the health decisions that make the most sense, not the most profits for insurance companies.

Reform will mean stability and peace of mind for the middle class. Never again will medical bills drive Americans into bankruptcy; never again will Americans be in danger of losing coverage if they lose their jobs or if they become sick; never again will insurance companies be allowed to deny patients coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

Lower costs, better care

Reform will mean affordable coverage for all Americans. Our plan's cost-lowering measures include a public health insurance option to bring competitive pressure to bear on rapidly consolidating private insurers, research on health outcomes to better inform the decisions of patients and doctors, and electronic medical records to help doctors save money by working together. For seniors, the plan closes the notorious Medicare Part D "doughnut hole" that denies drug coverage to those with between $2,700 and $6,100 per year in prescriptions.

Reform will also mean higher-quality care by promoting preventive care so health problems can be addressed before they become crises. This, too, will save money. We'll be a much healthier country if all patients can receive regular checkups and tests, such as mammograms and diabetes exams, without paying a dime out-of-pocket.

This month, despite the disruptions, members of Congress will listen to their constituents back home and explain reform legislation. We are confident that our principles of affordable, quality health care will stand up to any and all critics.

Now ? with Americans strongly supporting health insurance reform, with Congress reaching consensus on a plan, and with a president who ran and won on this specific promise of change ? America is closer than ever to this century-deferred goal.

This fall, at long last, we must reach it.

Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., is speaker of the House and

Steny Hoyer, D-Md., is House majority leader.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
All this will do is bring more opposition. Keep talking Pelosi/Obama. Keep talking.

What's scary is she actually believes this "Now ? with Americans strongly supporting health insurance reform, with Congress reaching consensus on a plan, and with a president who ran and won on this specific promise of change ? America is closer than ever to this century-deferred goal. "

No, Americans do not want what congress has put forth. That's the reason for the backlash and opposition.
 

SAWYER

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,745
42
91
I think she is right in that we want reform, just not the mystery bag of mess they are proposing
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,670
271
126
Yes. Now the WE are in control, dissent is no longer the highest form of patriotism. If you're not with US, you're against US is now an acceptable phrase.

Yes, a goodly number of Americans want health care reform.

There are also a goodly number of Americans that don't like the option currently up for vote.

Just because people oppose the current UHC bill, it doesn't mean they are in love with the status quo and want nothing to be done.

I asked this question in another thread and I'll ask it here. If the current UHC bill is so wonderful, why isn't congress rushing to include themselves, and the rest of the .gov, as part of thos covered by it?
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: spidey07

No, Americans do not want what congress has put forth.

That's the reason for the backlash and opposition.

I don't know of any "Americans" against health reform, only Republicans.

See I can generalize too.

Reading comprehension fail. Read what I said again.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
Originally posted by: Sawyer
I think she is right in that we want reform, just not the mystery bag of mess they are proposing

exactly.

Nearly everyone i know wants UHC. nobody wants whatever it is they are trying to push through. it may be grea tor it may be shit. we have no idea.

that is my big problem with it. they are trying to rush it. it hink they should take time and examine it and know WTF they are voteing on. The Public should know what they are voteing on.

This is to big to just rush
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,670
271
126
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: spidey07

No, Americans do not want what congress has put forth.

That's the reason for the backlash and opposition.

I don't know of any "Americans" against health reform, only Republicans.

See I can generalize too.

Reading comprehension fail. Read what I said again.

He has no interest in understanding what you wrote as it would force him to re-think his myopic view of the world.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
Originally posted by: extra
Originally posted by: spidey07
Americans do want what congress has put forth. That's the reason for the backlash and opposition.

Fixed.

Really? You might want to look at the many polls that say quite the opposite.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
Originally posted by: FerrelGeek
Yes. Now the WE are in control, dissent is no longer the highest form of patriotism. If you're not with US, you're against US is now an acceptable phrase.

Yes, a goodly number of Americans want health care reform.

There are also a goodly number of Americans that don't like the option currently up for vote.

Just because people oppose the current UHC bill, it doesn't mean they are in love with the status quo and want nothing to be done.

I asked this question in another thread and I'll ask it here. If the current UHC bill is so wonderful, why isn't congress rushing to include themselves, and the rest of the .gov, as part of thos covered by it?

That's incredibly easy to answer. High ranking government officials have gold plated health care, absolutely top notch. To provide that level of care to everyone isn't realistic. Judging a program's worth by whether or not millionaires want to sign themselves up for it is insane.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: Sawyer
I think she is right in that we want reform, just not the mystery bag of mess they are proposing

exactly.

Nearly everyone i know wants UHC. nobody wants whatever it is they are trying to push through. it may be grea tor it may be shit. we have no idea.

that is my big problem with it. they are trying to rush it. it hink they should take time and examine it and know WTF they are voteing on. The Public should know what they are voteing on.

This is to big to just rush

As I asked in other threads, exactly how long do they have to take on it before it's not a 'rush'? In another thread the answer was a period of time so long that entire congressional terms would have to expire, which was laughable.

Can you guys provide an adult, realistic timeline that Congress should follow to not be 'rushing' this?
 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,641
58
91
Originally posted by: Skoorb
They want to shut up citizens by insulting them. How sh*ty of them.

The idiots deserve to be insulted.

It is certainly one thing to disagree and to let your congresscritter know your your disapproval of the health care bill.
It is even better when you can do it in person at a town hall meeting.

But the people parading around chanting, and hanging effigies of congress members need to be given the boot and told to shut the fuck up.
They aren't helping their cause by being attention whores.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,865
10
0
Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
Originally posted by: Skoorb
They want to shut up citizens by insulting them. How sh*ty of them.

The idiots deserve to be insulted.

It is certainly one thing to disagree and to let your congresscritter know your your disapproval of the health care bill.
It is even better when you can do it in person at a town hall meeting.

But the people parading around chanting, and hanging effigies of congress members need to be given the boot and told to shut the fuck up.
They aren't helping their cause by being attention whores.

:laugh::laugh:
 

SAWYER

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,745
42
91
Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
Originally posted by: Skoorb
They want to shut up citizens by insulting them. How sh*ty of them.

The idiots deserve to be insulted.

It is certainly one thing to disagree and to let your congresscritter know your your disapproval of the health care bill.
It is even better when you can do it in person at a town hall meeting.

But the people parading around chanting, and hanging effigies of congress members need to be given the boot and told to shut the fuck up.
They aren't helping their cause by being attention whores.

While I agree about the baffons causing a scene, I assume you think the same thing about all the left-leaning groups and the way the carry themselves correct?
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: spidey07

No, Americans do not want what congress has put forth.

That's the reason for the backlash and opposition.

I don't know of any "Americans" against health reform, only Republicans.

See I can generalize too.

I dont know ANY republicans against health care reform. Reform isnt what the senate is proposing, however.
 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,641
58
91
Originally posted by: Sawyer
Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
Originally posted by: Skoorb
They want to shut up citizens by insulting them. How sh*ty of them.

The idiots deserve to be insulted.

It is certainly one thing to disagree and to let your congresscritter know your your disapproval of the health care bill.
It is even better when you can do it in person at a town hall meeting.

But the people parading around chanting, and hanging effigies of congress members need to be given the boot and told to shut the fuck up.
They aren't helping their cause by being attention whores.

While I agree about the baffons causing a scene, I assume you think the same thing about all the left-leaning groups and the way the carry themselves correct?

Yes I do.
Dissent is very patriotic, disruption is not.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Patranus
Originally posted by: extra
Originally posted by: spidey07
Americans do want what congress has put forth. That's the reason for the backlash and opposition.

Fixed.

Really? You might want to look at the many polls that say quite the opposite.

What Faux news polls?

Google can help you clear up your misunderstanding of reality.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: FerrelGeek
Yes. Now the WE are in control, dissent is no longer the highest form of patriotism. If you're not with US, you're against US is now an acceptable phrase.

Yes, a goodly number of Americans want health care reform.

There are also a goodly number of Americans that don't like the option currently up for vote.

Just because people oppose the current UHC bill, it doesn't mean they are in love with the status quo and want nothing to be done.

I asked this question in another thread and I'll ask it here. If the current UHC bill is so wonderful, why isn't congress rushing to include themselves, and the rest of the .gov, as part of thos covered by it?

I think you mean there are a lot of lazy fat fucks out there with a vote who want more free shit for nothing.
 
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