Is there a viable solution to getting people off lifetime govt assistance?

[bradly1101]

Is there a viable solution to getting people off lifetime govt assistance?

These programs are designed to keep people who cannot work from living in abject poverty. The government works hard to eliminate abuse.

Is the homeless problem too small for you? Would you like to see more physically and mentally disabled people in the streets? There are many places around the world who don't protect their weakest citizens. Is that our model?

So many people don't want us to return to the middle ages that the terrorists want. How would what you propose (through deduction - eliminating these programs) be much different (going back to when we treated the disabled like shit, and preferred that they just 'go away')? In which scenario would more lives be lost?

When able bodies and lifestyles are threatened it's terrorism, when bank accounts and identity is at risk we call it economic terrorism, when we threaten the disabled "it's for their own good."

 

[Moonbeam]

Think in terms of the cold hard facts of life. We have created a society in which you have to have money to survive and the way to have money is by having a job. If there is no work for everybody the government must provide the money to keep people alive. This is very unfortunate because there are so many who are luck and do have jobs but don't want to support those who don't, because those who have the means to survive and don't want others also to survive are like murders who require the death penalty. This functions as a way to open a job to the more willing. Eventually, by this means, however, the selfishness gene will go extinct. Clear eyed realistic logic is a wonderful thing.

 

[Jhhnn]

Not On the Job, Not Looking Either
There's an election coming up.

Just watch the politicians compete to give away more free stuff...

Free college! Free student loans! Free SSI! Free ObamaCare...

Though, if you already have a job, no ObamaCare subsidy for you...

So, just shut up and pay your taxes.

How do you expect politicians to get elected if they can't give away your money?

Uno

Jump to conclusions often? Feel the need to vent, tell us all how cheated & oppressed you really are?

Cuz Socialists!, obviously.

What if the revered Job Creators! find it more profitable to keep Americans unemployed than putting them to work?

What if your worldview is so self righteous and shallow that you can't see reduced labor force participation as people wanting what they can have rather than what they can't have?

What if some of it is letting people who need a job more than you do have it?

Maybe it's a symptom of America settling for less so that the financial elite can have more, huh?

Or you can just go on blaming the powerless for the deeds of the powerful.

 

[crashtech]

oops

 

[1prophet]

AI and robotics are going to create a lot more moochers.

Sorry but no, AI that can do that is decades away at best, don't fall for Hollywood's sci-fi fantasies, and neither is robotics any time soon.

The ever expanding welfare crowd is due to trade policies that exploit people overseas or illegals in order to avoid paying Americans higher wages along with benefits and bypassing many environmental, safety, and labor laws as well as other regulations resulting in the ever shrinking middle class.

Now that the private industry like JP Morgan is getting a cut off the welfare benefits card expect to see welfare expand.

 

[michal1980]

Jump to conclusions often? Feel the need to vent, tell us all how cheated & oppressed you really are?

Cuz Socialists!, obviously.

What if the revered Job Creators! find it more profitable to keep Americans unemployed than putting them to work?

What if your worldview is so self righteous and shallow that you can't see reduced labor force participation as people wanting what they can have rather than what they can't have?

What if some of it is letting people who need a job more than you do have it?

Maybe it's a symptom of America settling for less so that the financial elite can have more, huh?

Or you can just go on blaming the powerless for the deeds of the powerful.

raging against facts again?

 

[bozack]

raging against facts again?

Facts are a pesky thing it seems for them

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevemo...pped-out-of-work-force-than-have-found-a-job/

Folks out of the workforce have to be realistic and adjust their expectations, if that means someone with a degree in basket weaving who worked at a company turning widget a for 40 years is now no longer looking to make 100K and instead drop back to 70K yeah it hurts....been there, done that...

lately it seems more folks have no incentive to get off assistance once on

 

[Jhhnn]

raging against facts again?

What facts would those be? Should I imagine that you've presented any?

 

[Jhhnn]

Facts are a pesky thing it seems for them

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevemo...pped-out-of-work-force-than-have-found-a-job/

Folks out of the workforce have to be realistic and adjust their expectations, if that means someone with a degree in basket weaving who worked at a company turning widget a for 40 years is now no longer looking to make 100K and instead drop back to 70K yeah it hurts....been there, done that...

lately it seems more folks have no incentive to get off assistance once on

Remarkable that you can't see that your link merely confirms what I said, that middle America is learning to settle for less so that the financial elite can have more.

Facts? Argue with these-

http://www.tcf.org/blog/detail/graph-how-the-financial-sector-consumed-americas-economic-growth

 

[Sonikku]

Assuming America has the same number of strong middle class factory jobs as it did 20 years ago, one can only assume the labor participation rate decreasing is the result of Americans simply becoming lazy. Damn millennials. They ruined everything.

 

[disappoint]

Also, as a "student" of propaganda during the Cold War, and long ago absorbing Marshall McLuhan's book or his remark that "The medium IS the message," I wonder a bit about our money and the American psyche. "In God We Trust:" Is He green?

They used to trust God will give them money. Now they trust money will give them God.

They were wrong on both counts.

 

[Zorkorist]

Government spending into debt has made it far too expensive for normal people to hold jobs. Better to go on welfare.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

A balanced budget amendment, anything to limit Government, would result in fewer people on Government Assistance.

-John

 

[mrjminer]

Stop giving them money.

 

[cubby1223]

Remarkable that you can't see that your link merely confirms what I said, that middle America is learning to settle for less so that the financial elite can have more.

Middle America is learning to stop competing while the financial elite continue to do so. The interesting thing about Moonbeam's rants against competition, is that if I wanted to win, the easiest path to doing so is convince everyone else to stop playing the game of life.

I got a great opportunity to visit Europe this summer and learn a lot from a friend of mine who currently lives in Czech Republic. His business partner was present in the crowds in Wenceslas Square during the Velvet Revolution.

If you want to know what happens to a society that has stopped competing (as Moonbeam desires people to do), all you have to do is look to Europe to see and understand the long-term results. People don't know how to think for themselves. They don't know how to take any initiative. They don't know how to adapt to changing conditions. They don't strive for anything better than what currently is.

Socialism & Communism's ideal goals are to create equality among everyone, end the competition between one another. Life is competition. Life will always be competition. You can either play the game or you can give up. That is the personal choice we all have to decide for ourselves. The basic fundamental principle that we all eventually learn is, if you're not moving forward, you are not standing still, you are moving backwards.



The Velvet Revolution was a student-led protest against the government's constraints on citizens preventing the country from progressing forward. What do we have today across the U.S.? Student-led protests against minor violations of their #safeplace.

Learn from what we have available to learn from.

 

[Zorkorist]

Good post, Cubby.

-John

 

[sandorski]

Living Wage. If people have no hope of meeting their basic needs, which includes having a Family, they will be less willing to Work.

 

[Zorkorist]

There can only be a living wage, with a Government spending ceiling.

Otherwise the two rise in tandem. Debt, wages.

-John

 

[bozack]

Living Wage. If people have no hope of meeting their basic needs, which includes having a Family, they will be less willing to Work.

Define living wage, I know right now people are going on and on about $15/HR but is that truly the magic number? will that really make a difference, how does one legislate a "living wage" without the cost of goods and services going up to mitigate any increases in wages.

Why work if government programs provide basic needs and then you can make supplemental income under the table tax free.

 

[bozack]

Remarkable that you can't see that your link merely confirms what I said, that middle America is learning to settle for less so that the financial elite can have more.

Facts? Argue with these-

http://www.tcf.org/blog/detail/graph-how-the-financial-sector-consumed-americas-economic-growth

See Cubby's reply, middle America is shrinking with the few who want to continue to compete and strive to do more, and the masses who are either complacent in getting what the government hands out until they eventually land positions which were comparable in compensation to that which they previously had.

But whatever, keep hoping for a robin hood-esque social policies to be put in place and see what happens after that.

 

[Jhhnn]

Middle America is learning to stop competing while the financial elite continue to do so. The interesting thing about Moonbeam's rants against competition, is that if I wanted to win, the easiest path to doing so is convince everyone else to stop playing the game of life.

I got a great opportunity to visit Europe this summer and learn a lot from a friend of mine who currently lives in Czech Republic. His business partner was present in person on the streets during the Velvet Revolution.

If you want to know what happens to a society that has stopped competing (as Moonbeam desires people to do), all you have to do is look to Europe to see and understand the long-term results. People don't know how to think for themselves. They don't know how to take any initiative. They don't know how to adapt to changing conditions. They don't strive for anything better than what currently is.

Socialism & Communism's goals were to create equality among everyone, end the competition between one another. Life is competition. Life will always be competition. You can either play the game or you can give up. That is the personal choice we all have to decide for ourselves.

I'm not Moonbeam. I contend that the little guys can't stand against the political & economic power of the predatory financial elite unless we band together through the institutions of democracy. It's all they respect, power.

Otherwise, we can't compete with them & will merely be trying to ride the economic rollercoaster they create for us. If we don't limit their power they'll allow us none.

Which is not to deny the value of competition at all but rather to want a more even playing field & a game not rigged to favor the the biggest players entirely.

When we think about it much at all, we have to ask ourselves what benefit mega billionaires derive from even greater wealth. It won't change their lifestyles but rather their ability to project their vision of society onto the rest of us, something they've done increasingly for the last 35 years. It is not a vision that lends itself to egalitarian democracy at all but rather one that attempts to deny it.

What qualities other than ruthless greed have they shown that we should grant them such power?

 

[Zorkorist]

You don't seem to understand that the enemy is Government. Government curtails freedom. Government, gets together with business, and fucks the little guy.

Business couldn't do this alone, they need Government.

If there was less Government, more Freedom, we'd all be in a better place.

-John

 

[Moonbeam]

You don't seem to understand that the enemy is Government. Government curtails freedom. Government, gets together with business, and fucks the little guy.

Business couldn't do this alone, they need Government.

If there was less Government, more Freedom, we'd all be in a better place.

-John

We live in a Democracy where the little guy is king. How could the little guy get fucked by business and government. The little guy is the government, no?

 

[Zorkorist]

No. All a Democracy means is a bunch of people vote. If they vote to fuck the little people, so be it.

A Representative Government, like we have, is supposed to have smart people that were voted into office, and can say, "fuck off Mexicans!" "Fuck off Obama!," etc.

-John

 

[Moonbeam]

No. All a Democracy means is a bunch of people vote. If they vote to fuck the little people, so be it.

A Representative Government, like we have, is supposed to have smart people that were voted into office, and can say, "fuck off Mexicans!" "Fuck off Obama!," etc.

-John

So the problem then, isn't government or business but the folk who vote to fuck the little guy, presumably vote to fuck themselves, since they are the little guys, no?