Is there Free Will?

[DanTMWTMP]

free will is just an illusion. all atoms in your brain obey all the laws of physics/etc. They will react accordingly to what's going on around them. A person's actions is just from the atoms going stuff to each other independently to generate your actions as a whole.

hehehe

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: DanTMWTMP
free will is just an illusion. all atoms in your brain obey all the laws of physics/etc. They will react accordingly to what's going on around them. A person's actions is just from the atoms going stuff to each other independently to generate your actions as a whole.

hehehe

Lovely explanation. If you can't understand this well then there's no hope left for that mess of an information system in your atomically constructed defective brain is there?

 

[Steve]

You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice,
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill,
I will choose the path that's clear, I will choose free will.

 

[Insomnibyte]

A question such as this can delve to deeply into many things, weather it be a religios response to a scientific.

What do I believe?
I believe that we have free will, I believe that if we didnt we would be more monotonous in our doings... I believe in god, so I also believe that there is not a god out there that would just use us as pupets for no good. If we had not had free will, we probally would have been more opt to do less wars or random acts such as stealing, murder and the like. Man is born with free will.

Thats my belief anyway

 

[WildHorse]

Originally posted by: DanTMWTMP
free will is just an illusion. all atoms in your brain obey all the laws of physics/etc. They will react accordingly to what's going on around them. A person's actions is just from the atoms going stuff to each other independently to generate your actions as a whole.

hehehe

Consciousness is primary to the physical atoms of your brain.
Consciousness does not result from, does not arise from, the physical brain, but rather uses it the physical brain and spine and whole body as a temporary vehicle.
You described determinism, which is discredited lower-order 2nd chakra stuff.

I encourage you to continue exercising thought on this subject, as you clearly have been doing, which is a good thing. So keep up the good work.

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: Insomnibyte
A question such as this can delve to deeply into many things, weather it be a religios response to a scientific.

What do I believe?
I believe that we have free will, I believe that if we didnt we would be more monotonous in our doings... I believe in god, so I also believe that there is not a god out there that would just use us as pupets for no good. If we had not had free will, we probally would have been more opt to do less wars or random acts such as stealing, murder and the like. Man is born with free will.

Thats my belief anyway

Your belief is based on religious dogma, so sorry, but it doesn't count.

Originally posted by: scott
Consciousness does not result from, does not arise from, the physical brain, but rather uses it the physical brain and spine and whole body as a temporary vehicle.

Interesting, you should put that in a science fiction novel.

 

[bobsmith1492]

I want a free Wii...

 

[GPett]

Originally posted by: sm8000
You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice,
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill,
I will choose the path that's clear, I will choose free will.

Rush lyrics?

 

[Steve]

Originally posted by: GPett

Originally posted by: sm8000
You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice,
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill,
I will choose the path that's clear, I will choose free will.

Rush lyrics!

 

[petercintn]

An old physics professor will say that if you could know what spin and velocity each electron in the universe had at an instance of time, you could sort out the past and predict the future. This is a mainstay of classical physics. (No free will)

The quantum guys say it is impossible to know the spin and velocity of a particle, you can only have one or the other. This is one of the mainstays of Quantum physics. (Free will)

The string guys, well their still trying to cowtoe to Witten, who says every string theory is right if you look at it a certain way. (Doesn't matter, it's really the same thing)

So you tell me. I think this is a pretty useless debate.

Personally, I do what I want with in reason. Only my morals and some of 'the law' inhibit my desires. But I could break these conventions. I have free will.

For Christians - Without free will, how could have man fell? How could God judge you if you didn't have free will? God told Cain that if he did well, would he not be accepted? Sin was at his door but Cain could resist it. Seems like free will to me.

But then again, I am suspect, for I don't care one drivel for Decartes "I think therefore I am." Bullsnot to be nice. Don't know about you but I think because I exist, if I didn't exist there would be no thinking. I was an ET before retiring, so I only have an AS in electronics, so I'm kinda a country commmon sense guy. (without a whole lot of common sense) :^)

 

[Enig101]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
Free Will is often just arguing semantics.

We are free to chose based upon what choices are given us. If that is free will, then we have it. But many people do not view that as free will, but rather free choice.

Ah, but here's the catch. If you take all factors into account (i.e. your memories, your current state, your environment, etc etc) is there not only one choice you could make? Maybe not. That is arguably beyond the scope of science to prove.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: petercintn
For Christians - Without free will, how could have man fell? How could God judge you if you didn't have free will? God told Cain that if he did well, would he not be accepted? Sin was at his door but Cain could resist it. Seems like free will to me.

The Bible says that God "consigned all to disobedience that he might have mercy on all". Quite frankly, God caused the fall. We were never created perfect, and Christians that believe otherwise have never thought it through. A perfect creation cannot do wrong, but we did... We were purposely created with flaws. Again, so that God could teach us to "learn obedience", learn his ways, instead of being programed with them. Despite what many people preach/believe about God, he is not angry with his creation. He isn't some diabolical being that most religions make him out to be...

 

[Nathelion]

Originally posted by: Enig101

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
Free Will is often just arguing semantics.

We are free to chose based upon what choices are given us. If that is free will, then we have it. But many people do not view that as free will, but rather free choice.

Ah, but here's the catch. If you take all factors into account (i.e. your memories, your current state, your environment, etc etc) is there not only one choice you could make? Maybe not. That is arguably beyond the scope of science to prove.

The supernatural is, has always been, and will always be beyond science to "prove". By definition, science is everything that can be "proven" with the scientific method. By definition, the supernatural does not belong in that category.

I'll repeat the statement I made earlier in this thread:
In logic, which incidentally is a cornerstone of the scientific method, there are only two ways in which things happen: by chance and through causality. Neither allows for an intuitive definition of free will.

Now you can go right ahead and come up with an un-intuitive definition. It's not very hard. But in all honesty, any discussion of free will beyond the point that I made above is really not about free will, it's a discussion of semantics.

 

[skreet]

Originally posted by: Cogman
While if the friend is christian, I would agree with most posts about him being lost in translation. But before you guys attack you should realized that there are thousands of religions out there, many of which do not believe in the bible (and some that don't really believe in a god as such).

So just for the record, a religious fanatic does not have to be Christian.

Maybe it's just because of the area I live in, but around here if someone says 'religious fanatic', they're talking about Christians.

 

[DarkManX4lf]

Not to say anyone is wrong here, but in Islam it is said tha God gave every human free will.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

It is a question that can't be answered, therefore there is no point in discussing it, thinking about it, or even asking it.

Now excuse me while I go kill some hookers in GTA.

 

[ch33zw1z]

What Christians mean by "free will" is the personal choice to follow in the teaching of Jesus Christ, or to not. In any man-run society, there is never complete free will.

 

[RapidSnail]

I believe that God created man with a free will.

 

[engineereeyore]

I believe in free will. I don't think God will force anyone to do anything. Not that he can't, but that he won't. That allows free will to exist while still not affecting the omnipotence of God.

 

[tuteja1986]

FREE WILL leads to all bad and good things : ) free will of Stalin caused millions of death !!

 

[zig3695]

if theres no free will then this is hell. welcome.

 

[Fenixgoon]

there is always free will (choice). circumstance just changes the consequences.

 

[Fox5]

I'd say there's free will from any perspective we could have or any scope we could observe.

However, I believe the universe is fully deterministic. Not that there's purpose, just everything that has happened and will happen can only have happened in that way, based on the initial configuration of the universe and the physical laws it follows. Unless you can prove true randomness, there's no way for there to be anything else. (though an infinite universe would allow for a deterministic universe that appears random since it would always be outside any scope of observation)

 

[Nathelion]

Quantum theory invokes truly random phenomena - just FYI. Not that you can't reject quantum mechanics, it's just something to consider - especially since your belief in determinism was probably founded upon an understanding of newtonian mechanics, another very succesful scientific theory.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Nathelion
Quantum theory invokes truly random phenomena - just FYI. Not that you can't reject quantum mechanics, it's just something to consider - especially since your belief in determinism was probably founded upon an understanding of newtonian mechanics, another very succesful scientific theory.

I take quantum theory more as we don't have the capability to know what will happen (and it may even be impossible to know), not that there truly can be multiple outcomes for an event.

Randomness is an affront to logic, I can't even conceptualize what true randomness would be like. Well, other than a complete unknown.