Is there still hope for my PC?

[firebead]

I just bought a new new intel core2 duo desktop for my wife, along with EVGA's nvidia 7900GS. Too bad I can't play my games on her desktop.

Mine was still a P4-2.8 with EVGA's 6600GT. Can I still get a new AGP card to bump the performance? It's bad to switch back from 7900GS, and worse to run out of budget to buy a new PC for myself

 

[Piuc2020]

Originally posted by: firebead
I just bought a new new intel core2 duo desktop for my wife, along with EVGA's nvidia 7900GS. Too bad I can't play my games on her desktop.

Mine was still a P4-2.8 with EVGA's 6600GT. Can I still get a new AGP card to bump the performance? It's bad to switch back from 7900GS, and worse to run out of budget to buy a new PC for myself

Get yourself one of those spiffy X1950Pro cards and you should be quite happy, that processor could use a little overclocking though.

 

[Sting32]

if my "off board" buddies stumble across this, they are going to say Plowboy and his broken record...

Let me tell you my experience, and you decide what you would do...

I have a 2.4ghz p4, on an OLD motherboard, that when I 1st bought this system, it I had the geforce2 mx 32 meg card, because I already had it. (BTW, before they made the distinction into the mx200 mx400 etc.)

Ok this was good enough for the Sim racing games I mostly played for a year or so.. but, I keep watching prices fall on the hot cards as newer hot cards come out. So I move not long after the NVidia 6000 series cards came out, to the ti4600 128 card for 1/3 the price mind you. I saw awesome performance gain BTW.

Couple years go by, I still think i have room to upgrade and bought the 6600gt. I saw no difference in performance, but I could see more tiny details because of the Direct X versions the cards were written to do. Well I'm disappointed and find out yep, pretty much bought a card not better than the ti4600. I need more gaming HP, and I need it relatively cheap... so I thought, Ill try one more time because my new favorite SIM was not performing very well {mind you I had 1gig ram, fast as I could find hard drives you know, this thing wasn't cutting edge, but I thought it should been decent game wise...}

Anywho, so I bought me the 7800gs(oc) with 256 meg (might be the 512 version, but my mind is now challenged on that fact) still gained NOTHING. I was almost sick tossing money down the rat hole, I sure as heck wasn't glad I spent that money (250 and change and it was not bleeding edge like the 400+ dollar PCI cards out now. So obviously, my motherboard and CPU holding me back anyhow.

SO what do I do, I already spent a pretty big wad, somewhat foolishly, on the AGP 7800 gs/oc. Well I found an Asrock dual VSTA (has AGP & pcie slots) got me a e6400 core duo (225 chip & 75 motherboard) and got a HUGE gain, and get to use my AGP stuff until I save up again. I tripled the gaming performance plus load times for just friggin anything.

What I am saying (contrary to many) is if you already have a decent HIGH end AGP card, and don't want to just throw it away, to jump to PCIe, I suggest then, look into that motherboard with both AGP & PCIe slot, and for less than the high end GFX cards cost right now, gain on helluva lot of performance, for 300 or less. but if you don't have at least.

I'm having trouble thinking your 2.8 is that much "faster" then my 2.4, but it could be, but on one of those VGA charts, if you don't have a AGP card, that is equal or better than the 6600GT with 256 meg ram, just start saving up for all new with PCIe, IMHO.

good luck

 

[kopema]

Originally posted by: firebead
I just bought a new new intel core2 duo desktop for my wife, along with EVGA's nvidia 7900GS. Too bad I can't play my games on her desktop.

Mine was still a P4-2.8 with EVGA's 6600GT. Can I still get a new AGP card to bump the performance? It's bad to switch back from 7900GS, and worse to run out of budget to buy a new PC for myself

Early reviews on the X1950 Pro AGP look pretty awesome, but it's only just now coming out. If you wait until the middle of next month you should be able to get one for around $205.00.

You might want to at least leaf through this thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...STARTPAGE=15&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

(There's no way to know what the "plowboy" guy was talking about, but a 2.8GHz processor is enough for most current games. Assuming your motherboard isn't ancient enough to have one of those AGP2 thingies, you should get a massive performance increase out of the X1950.)

 

[Sting32]

Quoting you... (There's no way to know what the "plowboy" guy was talking about, but a 2.8GHz processor is enough for most current games. Assuming your motherboard isn't ancient enough to have one of those AGP2 thingies, you should get a massive performance increase out of the X1950.)[/quote]

What I was trying to say in the simplest terms was, MANY of the best vid cards run better and bench test on far superior machines than the rest of us own, so buyer Beware.

Do you see anandtech or any others benchmarking & comparing these gfx cards, like 90% of the users buy them? hell no, they test the these cards in the most expensive motehrboard (they happen to be reviewing also at the moment) you can buy. Hell the DFI Lanparty boards, and special ram, and some of those are higher than my 1st PC back in 87 when it is all put together.

I know most people bought thier system from Dell {or other retail} or department store, then they hear/read about upgrading video to play a game thier buddies do.

So what I was pointing out, was I upgraded my GFX card 3 times, spending $150 for the ti4600 (bought it used), $179 for the 6600gt (new) then 250 (newegg) for the 7800gs, and never gained an inch.

What I hoped to convey was my older PC was at the best it could achieve at the original $150 card, so the $400 I wasted (yeah in steps) was more than upgrading just the motherboard and chip, because I carefully shopped for a motherboard I could re-use my ill spent investments plus what I had in the old PC.

Not everyone can toss around 200-400 bucks on a whim, and admit it, more of us get mad when we do cough up that kind of money, and we gain nothing.

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020

Originally posted by: firebead
I just bought a new new intel core2 duo desktop for my wife, along with EVGA's nvidia 7900GS. Too bad I can't play my games on her desktop.

Mine was still a P4-2.8 with EVGA's 6600GT. Can I still get a new AGP card to bump the performance? It's bad to switch back from 7900GS, and worse to run out of budget to buy a new PC for myself

Get yourself one of those spiffy X1950Pro cards and you should be quite happy, that processor could use a little overclocking though.

His cpu is no fast enough for the x1950pro unless he overclocks to 3.2 or faster IMO.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: firebead
I just bought a new new intel core2 duo desktop for my wife, along with EVGA's nvidia 7900GS. Too bad I can't play my games on her desktop.

Mine was still a P4-2.8 with EVGA's 6600GT. Can I still get a new AGP card to bump the performance? It's bad to switch back from 7900GS, and worse to run out of budget to buy a new PC for myself

definitely
:thumbsup:

dont' listen to the nay-sayers ... an x1950p will more than double your current performance in most games and make it very playable at 10x7-10x9 with most details 'on' and 'high-medium'.

that said, you will get a lot more if you can O/C your CPU... mine is a P42.80c ... but by simply raising the FSB i can get 3.31Ghz and give a stock a64-3200+ a good run for its money. ... even a very 'mild' O/C to 3.0 Ghz will meet the "target" for most new games ...

in MY experience it was GREAT going from r8500/128MB>9800xt>x850xt>x1950p
... a SOLID jump in EACH case [with the SAME agp rig i built back in Jan '04]

and to Plowboy, the 533 FSB P4- 2.4 is not in the same class as the 800FSB 2.80c ... unless you o/c the crap outta yours, it is VERY limited in bandwith. ... starved, i'd say

 

[Sting32]

I had to get back my account, thus the name change... few know me a plowboy.

Originally posted by: apoppin
and to Plowboy, the 533 FSB P4- 2.4 is not in the same class as the 800FSB 2.80c ... unless you o/c the crap outta yours, it is VERY limited in bandwith. ... starved, i'd say

Dude(s) I am not being the Naysayer, btw I will admit I havent checked the price of the card you suggest, I thought the guy said his machine was AGP also, oh wait he did.

I said, indirectly like they used to do in fables I guess {given away my age maybe} since he is so far behind the curve {I assumed a little too much about the 2.8ghz intel since I have on sitting here that too is only 533 mhz}

TO each his own I gave a differeing point of view, but I never sat here and said I was the end all knowledge repository, of this board either, I posted what I ran into. as an example.

 

[Captante]

Originally posted by: Sting32
I had to get back my account, thus the name change... few know me a plowboy.

Originally posted by: apoppin
and to Plowboy, the 533 FSB P4- 2.4 is not in the same class as the 800FSB 2.80c ... unless you o/c the crap outta yours, it is VERY limited in bandwith. ... starved, i'd say

Dude(s) I am not being the Naysayer, btw I will admit I havent checked the price of the card you suggest, I thought the guy said his machine was AGP also, oh wait he did.

I said, indirectly like they used to do in fables I guess {given away my age maybe} since he is so far behind the curve {I assumed a little too much about the 2.8ghz intel since I have on sitting here that too is only 533 mhz}

TO each his own I gave a differeing point of view, but I never sat here and said I was the end all knowledge repository, of this board either, I posted what I ran into. as an example.

Based on reading many benchmarks, I have to say that the OP will get a huge boost out of an X1950 Pro, even with a 2.4ghz P4 cpu ... would it get a larger boost with a fast A64 or faster C2D? Of course it would!

Saying that the upgrade isn't worth it from a 6600GT is just plain wrong ... frankly I have no idea why you didn't see a performance boost when going from a GeForce 4 to a 6600GT, but I can tell you for certain that the 6600GT is one heck of lot faster then any Geforce 4 & you should have gotten a large increase. I went from the exact same Ti4600 you had to a Radeon 9800 Pro (CPU was an Athlon XP 2100+ at the time) & my gaming performance increased dramatically, then I went from that to a 6800GT (slightly slower then your 7800GS) with a 2800+ AXP & that upgrade more then DOUBLED 3d performance from the Radeon.

I'm not saying your suggestion of going with the Asrock motherboard with a C2D & sticking with the 6600GT for awhile is a bad one, it would make a lot of sense if the OP wasn't mainly interested in gaming performance, but he'll get a much greater increase in 3D performance with a faster video card then a new CPU & motherboard, further he'ed have to invest in DDR2 RAM which ultiimately would make going the new CPU route cost quite a bit more as well.

 

[akshayt]

why can't you ask her for her rig or play on her rig?

 

[firebead]

Originally posted by: akshayt
why can't you ask her for her rig or play on her rig?

Ye s I could, but then she's gonna kill me...

OK. My old PC was the classic dell 400SC - 2.8/800 FBS and 1GB PC3200 RAM. So O/C is out. I did see big boost from Ti4200 to 6600GT (128MB).
To make the problem worse, I have a 24" LCD running 1920x1200. So you guys could imagine when I bought Oblivion - never start playing the game because it make me dizzy after 10 - 15 min. I did manage to finish company of heroes, but it's really a shame to reduce such a beatiful game to almost minimal settings.

I checked the 400SC faq again, the AGP slot can support 8X card. The only problem is the punny PSU, only 250W. Is this enough for the X1950 Pro? I am currently plugged 3 HDs and 1 DVD Bunner. Should I unplug some to free up the load?

To Sting32:
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, dude. I guess we have something in common at least: we like to hang on to our rig, even though it's old. Not that a new PC is that expensive nowadays (my wife's dell dimension 9200 only costs $609 shipped), it's just I get sentimental

BTW, I am an old forum member, just hasn't logged on for quite a while. forgot my password, and my old email address is gone too - can't have my old anandtech login back... So glad to be back and find out you all are so supportive. THANKS!!

 

[Captante]

Originally posted by: firebead

Originally posted by: akshayt
why can't you ask her for her rig or play on her rig?

Ye s I could, but then she's gonna kill me...

OK. My old PC was the classic dell 400SC - 2.8/800 FBS and 1GB PC3200 RAM. So O/C is out. I did see big boost from Ti4200 to 6600GT (128MB).
To make the problem worse, I have a 24" LCD running 1920x1200. So you guys could imagine when I bought Oblivion - never start playing the game because it make me dizzy after 10 - 15 min. I did manage to finish company of heroes, but it's really a shame to reduce such a beatiful game to almost minimal settings.

I checked the 400SC faq again, the AGP slot can support 8X card. The only problem is the punny PSU, only 250W. Is this enough for the X1950 Pro? I am currently plugged 3 HDs and 1 DVD Bunner. Should I unplug some to free up the load?

To Sting32:
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, dude. I guess we have something in common at least: we like to hang on to our rig, even though it's old. Not that a new PC is that expensive nowadays (my wife's dell dimension 9200 only costs $609 shipped), it's just I get sentimental

BTW, I am an old forum member, just hasn't logged on for quite a while. forgot my password, and my old email address is gone too - can't have my old anandtech login back... So glad to be back and find out you all are so supportive. THANKS!!

Bad news on the power supply... if you go with an X1950 Pro you'll need to upgrade to somthing with at least 400-450 watts... somthing like this will do nicely

If you were to go for a 7600GT you could most likely make it with the 250 watt model you have, but that card isn't going to run Oblivion well at 1920x1200.

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: Captante

Originally posted by: firebead

Originally posted by: akshayt
why can't you ask her for her rig or play on her rig?

Ye s I could, but then she's gonna kill me...

OK. My old PC was the classic dell 400SC - 2.8/800 FBS and 1GB PC3200 RAM. So O/C is out. I did see big boost from Ti4200 to 6600GT (128MB).
To make the problem worse, I have a 24" LCD running 1920x1200. So you guys could imagine when I bought Oblivion - never start playing the game because it make me dizzy after 10 - 15 min. I did manage to finish company of heroes, but it's really a shame to reduce such a beatiful game to almost minimal settings.

I checked the 400SC faq again, the AGP slot can support 8X card. The only problem is the punny PSU, only 250W. Is this enough for the X1950 Pro? I am currently plugged 3 HDs and 1 DVD Bunner. Should I unplug some to free up the load?

To Sting32:
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, dude. I guess we have something in common at least: we like to hang on to our rig, even though it's old. Not that a new PC is that expensive nowadays (my wife's dell dimension 9200 only costs $609 shipped), it's just I get sentimental

BTW, I am an old forum member, just hasn't logged on for quite a while. forgot my password, and my old email address is gone too - can't have my old anandtech login back... So glad to be back and find out you all are so supportive. THANKS!!

Bad news on the power supply... if you go with an X1950 Pro you'll need to upgrade to somthing with at least 400-450 watts... somthing like this will do nicely

If you were to go for a 7600GT you could most likely make it with the 250 watt model you have, but that card isn't going to run Oblivion well at 1920x1200.

When my system was a Dell, I had a 250 watt power supply and only Pc Power and cooling made a power supply's for Dell's motherboards. So I bought a new motherboard and power suppply and case ( It was cheaper in the long run), but I do remember running my 7800gs with the 250 watt psu. I don't recommend it though. I'd say try a used 6800gt with that psu from the for sale/trade forums for 100 bucks or so. Don't throw any more money in that Dell then you have to. You should see a real nice boost for your money.

 

[Stumps]

7600GT FTW, even that will be CPU limited..but at least they can be had for less than a 6800GT or 7800GS, and it's performs very similar to the 7800GS.

 

[Roguestar]

Clearly you require a use of the classic bait-and-switch. Distract her for a while with something shiny like jewellery or mention vaguely you were thinking about having kids, then just swap your PC for hers. If she's just doing word processing and browsing and stuff it won't matter, and that core 2 duo would be more at home doing all your gaming work .

 

[firebead]

6600 GT 8 3 4 500 1000 128bit
7600 GT 12 5 8 560 1400 128bit
7800 GS 16 6 8 375 1200 256bit

X1950 Pro 36 8 12 575 1380 256bit

(GPU Pixel Shaders VertexShaders ROPs Core Speed RAM Speed Memory Interface )

My questions: is 7600GT(assuming 256MB) will give me enough performance boost to justify the cost? Also, does plug less HD (say only 1 hd) free up the load on PSU? 400SC uses little power for CPU cooling though. I just want to make sure the PSU will hold if I upgrade.

____________
classic bait-and-switch strategy won't work: my wife has a master degree in computer science, her PCs are always better than mine... LOL.

 

[apoppin]

aren't there "add-in" Power supplies that might work with your Dell and a x1950p?

. . . even 7600GT* .... 6800GS .... 7800GS will be nearly double the performance of your 6600GT
[not 'ideal' for 19x12 ... but much better than your current GPU]

EDIT: *oops ... not 7600GT

 

[happy medium]

My questions: is 7600GT(assuming 256MB) will give me enough performance boost to justify the cost?


No, a used 6800gt goes for 115/120 dollars a 7600gt is like 190.00$. with a 10% performance diffrence.
6800gt FTW!____________


Edit: Here a 6800gt BFG that comes with a lifetime warrenty for 127.00 shipped.

or bid on this 7600gt

http://cgi.ebay.com/Leadtek-WinFast-A76...1QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


http://cgi.ebay.com/BFG-6800GT-OC-Nvidi...1QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[kopema]

I checked the 400SC faq again, the AGP slot can support 8X card. The only problem is the punny PSU, only 250W. Is this enough for the X1950 Pro? I am currently plugged 3 HDs and 1 DVD Bunner. Should I unplug some to free up the load?

The 8X AGP slot is plenty, absolutely no problem there for at least a few years to come. Unfortunately, I think the suggested PSU for the X1950 Pro is 450 watts, so you will almost certainly have to upgrade that. (I've heard stories of people getting by on lower-rated PSU's if they are "good quality," but I certainly wouldn't count on it.)

But beware: PSU's are cheap, but sometimes those things can be deceptively hard to remove or install - especially with a factory-built computer. I'd recommend having the dealer do the swap for you.

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: kopema

I checked the 400SC faq again, the AGP slot can support 8X card. The only problem is the punny PSU, only 250W. Is this enough for the X1950 Pro? I am currently plugged 3 HDs and 1 DVD Bunner. Should I unplug some to free up the load?

The 8X AGP slot is plenty, absolutely no problem there for at least a few years to come. Unfortunately, I think the suggested PSU for the X1950 Pro is 450 watts, so you will almost certainly have to upgrade that. (I've heard stories of people getting by on lower-rated PSU's if they are "good quality," but I certainly wouldn't count on it.)

But beware: PSU's are cheap, but sometimes those things can be deceptively hard to remove or install - especially with a factory-built computer. I'd recommend having the dealer do the swap for you.

Heres a 6800ultra for 120.00$ JUmp on this dude

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=45&threadid=1981577&enterthread=y

 

[Captante]

(1) The 6800 Ultra draws as much power as an X1950 Pro, so while its a great card for the money it'll very likely require a new psu as well.

(2) Dell stopped using none-standard ATX pus 20-pin connecters quite awhile ago, so hopefully any replacment unit will work ... check with Dell to make sure though.

(3) A 7600GT performs about the same as a 6800 Ultra (without the heat & high power draw) and will be well worth the upgrade.

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: Captante
(1) The 6800 Ultra draws as much power as an X1950 Pro, so while its a great card for the money it'll very likely require a new psu as well.

(2) Dell stopped using none-standard ATX pus 20-pin connecters quite awhile ago, so hopefully any replacment unit will work ... check with Dell to make sure though.

(3) A 7600GT performs about the same as a 6800 Ultra (without the heat & high power draw) and will be well worth the upgrade.

tHE 76000GT COST 70.00$ MORE IN AGP FLAVOR

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: Captante
(1) The 6800 Ultra draws as much power as an X1950 Pro, so while its a great card for the money it'll very likely require a new psu as well.

(2) Dell stopped using none-standard ATX pus 20-pin connecters quite awhile ago, so hopefully any replacment unit will work ... check with Dell to make sure though.

(3) A 7600GT performs about the same as a 6800 Ultra (without the heat & high power draw) and will be well worth the upgrade.

LINK???

 

[Sting32]

Originally posted by: Captante

I'm not saying your suggestion of going with the Asrock motherboard with a C2D & sticking with the 6600GT for awhile is a bad one, it would make a lot of sense if the OP wasn't mainly interested in gaming performance, but he'll get a much greater increase in 3D performance with a faster video card then a new CPU & motherboard, further he'ed have to invest in DDR2 RAM which ultiimately would make going the new CPU route cost quite a bit more as well.

2 things:

1st off, the pc 400 (ddr) ram is what I am still using in this DUAL VSTA board, I could do DDR2, but differences by most accounts would be slight for the money difference, (meaning I already owned the ddr, would have to sell at a loss and buy ddr2 which is not free...) I dont think the perfomance gain is that much in ddr2 over decent rate ddr, least on this board, again if I didnt already have even 1 or 2 sticks of ddr, then the loss & cost of upgrades is minimal... FWIW, this Asrock, it supports using up 2 sticks, of Either ddr or ddr2, cant do both at same times, and if you do matching sticks it will do dual channel, which I just added the 2nd ddr(pc400) chip lately.

I been basing my assumptions and findings of real experience, on what I would see in differences if I had the best and greatest motherboard and system out there and swapped cards, in other words, from reviews and benchamrk sites like this. (not sure I seen them on anandtech, but I have this, at tomshardware... the VGA benchmark chart that included some lower older geforce's up to latest ones, with even some AGP versions, tossed in there. See link a little lower Now, Ill edit this later, if I could locate the older chart (ill keep looking) where they had ti4600's up through 6800 cards and higher.

BTW, Im just having to go from memory and remarks, but the 6600gt (mine was the 128 meg version by XFX) and ti4600 128 by the company that was hot for a while they closed the doors since oh about 2 years ago? I cant remember 3dfx? anyway, seems to me, the perfomance testers even said they were near same, I think the 256 meg versions are probably better, but not terribly.

here is the 6600gt with the 7800gs (actually had the AGP version in the cart for the 7800gs both listed, will have blue bars in the charts). Big jump on a boards that didnt hold the AGP cards back hardly at all if any.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics....elx=33&model1=540&model2=543&chart=228 if you look in there you see where the 7600 card falls in, not much above the 6600gt imho. I chose the benchmarking program from the list, you could select game performance charts and all that, to show different outcomes with AA and resolutions you know.

FWIW, I think I posted my benchmark from each of the cards I tried in the p4 2.4 machine with PCmark 03 free version, I have to find the links, and it is at home. havent posted this machine yet, but I have it on the pc at home (results that is of the tests in pcmark03).

Great getting your guy's opinions, I value the discussion BTW. thanks.

 

[Sting32]

Originally posted by: firebead
To Sting32:
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, dude. I guess we have something in common at least: we like to hang on to our rig, even though it's old. Not that a new PC is that expensive nowadays (my wife's dell dimension 9200 only costs $609 shipped), it's just I get sentimental

BTW, I am an old forum member, just hasn't logged on for quite a while. forgot my password, and my old email address is gone too - can't have my old anandtech login back... So glad to be back and find out you all are so supportive. THANKS!!

I know where you are coming from, but I was not as much sentimental as, well tighter with money than many. heheheh.

Like these guys keep saying, give it a try, at worst you might have to find a bigger powersupply, and make sure whomever you get the PS from, they know it is for A DELL! they used to be wired differently, to the motherboard, and truthfully, I dunno if that has changed.

By most accounts you probably see decent gains.