Is there such thing as being mathamatically disabled?

[XxPrOdiGyxX]

j/p =)

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: ICRS
I am sure some people have something like ADD, but I have seen to many people who are simply lazy use ADD as an excuse.


Back to the OP. How are you with logic games, or logic puzzles. Questions like

An athlete has six trophies to place on an empty three-shelf display case. The six trophies are bowling trophies F, G, and H and tennis trophies J, K, and L. The three shelves of the display case are labeled 1 to 3 from top to bottom. Any of the shelves can remain empty. The athlete's placement of trophies must conform to the following conditions:

J and L cannot be on the same shelf.
F must be on the shelf immediately above the shelf that L is on.
No single shelf can hold all three bowling trophies
K cannot be on Shelf 2.
Questions
1. If G and H are on Shelf 2, which of the following must be true?

a. K is on Shelf 1.
b. L is on Shelf 2.
c. J is on Shelf 3.
d. G and J are on the same shelf.
e. F and K are on the same shelf.

I am sorry to OP if my comment sounded insensitive. If you need any help on any math problem feel free to ask. I actually do have a degree in mathematics.

I had many tests done in elementary school which all concluded that I have ADD and some learning disabilities. It was awhile ago so I don't remember which tests, I'm sure my parents would.

I really tried hard to solve that problem. It just made my head hurt

Here is a
for trying. (the answer is b. L is on shelf 2)

You know anyone really good at math. My cousin was like you, always found math very difficult. So he had me "help" him on his homework and take home quizes.

Yeah, my dad and younger brother are really good. Problem is.... they can't help me when it comes to taking the tests

 

[Xonoahbin]

In response to your post, I think there are people that truly have problems with math. It all has to do with the way your brain envisions things. If it can't picture math in a particular way, it can get jumbled. For guys especially this is a big problem since we're visual learners. If you can't visualize it correctly, you might not be able to do it very well at all. Perhaps what you're missing is something that can relate math to the real world for you. I find that teachers and professors don't particularly do that well, and it can be crippling to a student who needs to relate it rather than just pushing buttons and writing equations. I find I'm that way, but that I always find a way to visualize it anyway.

As a side note, someone mentioned about great math students not being able to divide or multiply very well, etc. That's an interesting thought. On my end, I can punch those out impeccably. A lot of the people that are "better" at math than I am can't seem to do it well. Odd phenomenon.

 

[Soundmanred]

I'm the same way, I excel at most everything else, but math just trips me up.
It's like when a math problem is encountered the brain just short circuits and you can't even begin to solve it. (it has to be fairly complex, not just the basics)
I can do add/subtract/mult/divide all day long quick and easy, but more complex number problems and I'm out.
I don't have ADD, I'm not lazy, and like I said I am great at just about everything else.
Math=
Another note - I made "A"s in college Trig and Statistics. For me I think it's all about reality and visualization, not just crunching numbers for number's sake.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Heck, there are tons of things that people can't grasp. It's totally understandable that a large portion of the population isn't good with math, science, english, history, etc...

You can probably learn it if it's presented in concepts that you can grasp. The problem though, is that math is a vast world that takes years to realize. The public education system isn't prepared to deviate for those who can't pick up the lessons right away. Even if one or two teachers work with you, others would have to follow for you to get the full picture. Math is a bunch of concepts and rules and they are often forgotten if they aren't practiced....that's the other half of why people suck at math. Even those who made As or Bs in grade school.

 

[Anubis]

in college i was told i had a spelling dissability so im sure you can have a math one

 

[Cogman]

I don't know, this has always been strange to me because I do get math very easily. I've always wondered if there is some gene that makes it so some people get it and some don't. In my family, about half did really well in math and the other half didn't. I really couldn't tell you what the difference is because we all had exactly the same teachers (except for calculus, those teachers where different)

 

[Alphathree33]

Regarding ALGEBRA:

Whenever you see "=", it means only one very simple thing: the stuff on the left works out to be the same number as the stuff on the right.

An example is that 5 = 5. Can't argue with that, can you?

Another example is that x = x. Hopefully you can't argue with that either.

Now if I figure out that you and I make the same amount of money, I might say (your salary) = (my salary). Is that cool?

And I could go on from there... I could say that your salary is actually from two jobs, whereas I only have one job. So then I could write:

(your salary from job 1) + (your salary from job 2) = (my salary)

And so on. Now I could write this in "nasty algebra" and say :

A + B = C

But would that really make it all that much scarier?

 

[Alphathree33]

And now that I know A + B = C, I can write that A + B - C = 0.

Why? Well, if I know two things are equal, then if I subtract the same number from both of them, they're going to remain equal.

EXAMPLE 1: If 1 + 4 = 5, then 1 + 4 - 5 = 0. I subtracted 5 from both sides. (Add it up, it works.)

EXAMPLE 2: If A + B = C, then A + B - C = 0. I subtracted C from both sides.

 

[DefDC]

In high school, I got through basic algebra ok, although I've always HATED math. I couldn't, for the life of me, get through geometry. I passed with a mercy "D" because I tried so hard.

When I got to college, I got through basic and advanced algebra. I made it through trig. (almost all of these "C"s. As soon as I got to Calculus, I was done. I tried three times, with tutors and friends helping me. But it wasn't to be.

I read somewhere the mathematical part of the brain matures at different times in different people. I'm not sure if you might be a late bloomer, but there also walls to where people can go. I have a hard time doing basic math in my head. Give me a pencil and I can work out basic stuff easily. I think many people just have different abilities when it comes to math, intelligence not really being a factor.

 

[Yanagi]

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: ICRS
I am sure some people have something like ADD, but I have seen to many people who are simply lazy use ADD as an excuse.


Back to the OP. How are you with logic games, or logic puzzles. Questions like

An athlete has six trophies to place on an empty three-shelf display case. The six trophies are bowling trophies F, G, and H and tennis trophies J, K, and L. The three shelves of the display case are labeled 1 to 3 from top to bottom. Any of the shelves can remain empty. The athlete's placement of trophies must conform to the following conditions:

J and L cannot be on the same shelf.
F must be on the shelf immediately above the shelf that L is on.
No single shelf can hold all three bowling trophies
K cannot be on Shelf 2.
Questions
1. If G and H are on Shelf 2, which of the following must be true?

a. K is on Shelf 1.
b. L is on Shelf 2.
c. J is on Shelf 3.
d. G and J are on the same shelf.
e. F and K are on the same shelf.

I am sorry to OP if my comment sounded insensitive. If you need any help on any math problem feel free to ask. I actually do have a degree in mathematics.

I had many tests done in elementary school which all concluded that I have ADD and some learning disabilities. It was awhile ago so I don't remember which tests, I'm sure my parents would.

I really tried hard to solve that problem. It just made my head hurt

Here is a
for trying. (the answer is b. L is on shelf 2)

You know anyone really good at math. My cousin was like you, always found math very difficult. So he had me "help" him on his homework and take home quizes.

I also got B) L is on shelf 2

 

[dullard]

No, you aren't screwed.

Many people have problems with math. In my experience, though, the problem isn't with the student. The problem usually stems from a bad teacher he/she had in the past. The teacher scolded him/her for asking questions that were "covered" in class. Or the teacher refused to answer questions directly. Or the teacher just read the answer out of a book instead of saying WHY or HOW. Or some combination of the above.

Because of the bad experience, the student missed a key lesson or two. The rest of math keeps reusing that same idea and the student struggles. They don't usually struggle on the new math, but they struggle when using the old math as some small part of the new problem. For example, I see about 99% of math students in the supposedly difficult calculus classes get the calculus part correct but actually stuggle on the algebra that they had at least four years of previously. Thus, the student gets a negative attitude and begins to hate math. The result is the student thinks that he/she can't do math.

It isn't the student's fault in most cases, it is the bad teacher(s).

I believe that you CAN learn and do math. To do so, you need to start from scratch with a fresh attitude and a GOOD teacher/tutor.

Here are a few things that you should know:

Item #1. There are maybe a dozen things in math that you will likely come ever across and need to know. You can learn those 12 things in a few days, if not a few hours. The rest is just variations on those central themes (often set up to confuse you) and terminology. Focus on those dozen items and you'll be set. Don't let the terminology or variations get to you.

I'll give you a terminology example. Suppose you play a C on your guitar. Then you add in an E and a G. Suddenly the result is the C major chord:

C + E + G = C major.

Or alternatively, you can take the C major, subtract the E and add in an E flat and you have a C minor:

C major - E + E flat = C + E flat + G = C minor

This is all math that you probably know very well. Yet, if you ask that math to some math expert who hasn't seen music, he will just be lost in confusion. "What the fuc& is this major/minor crap?" It isn't the math that is hard. It is just addition and subtraction. It is the terminology that is usually hard.

Item #2.There are many ways to get to the correct answer. There is no correct method. In school, they will teach you a half dozen confusing ways to do the exact same thing. Then you are lost when you have to try to apply them. The bad teacher will just tell you that you are wrong, not because you are doing the math incorrectly, but because you aren't using the method that the teacher wanted.

Yes, some methods are better than others (much faster or less work). But, if you know one method and stick to it, then you WILL get the correct answer. It is far better to learn one method and use it well than to fumble around with all that mess of doing the same thing in many ways (especially if you think you suck at math). As long as you properly apply the dozen or so math rules, even if you apply them in odd ways, you will eventually get to the correct answer. It may take you hours when it takes me mintues, but you will get there.

If your teacher trys to show you all these confusing methods, then you need to take initiative and talk to him/her. Say that you are confused and that you know how to answer the problem with the original method. Ask if you can get partial or even full credit for the proper answer, even if it doesn't match the method that the teacher wants. In my opinion, the results are what matters, not how you got there. To do this, you need a good teacher/tutor. Another one of the thousands of crappy teachers and you'll just be brushed off.

 

[DrPizza]

In my experience as a math teacher, the students who have struggled most are the students who never memorized the most basic things: the multiplication table for example. If you can't multiply 6*7 instantly, then of course you're going to be lost when it becomes 6x * 7x = 42x². There's just too much to decipher rather than just one new thing. I can still get students through those things, but in the long run, they typically get the lowest grades in the class (with the exception of the one super-lazy kid I always seem to end up with.)

 

[ICRS]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
In my experience as a math teacher, the students who have struggled most are the students who never memorized the most basic things: the multiplication table for example. If you can't multiply 6*7 instantly, then of course you're going to be lost when it becomes 6x * 7x = 42x². There's just too much to decipher rather than just one new thing. I can still get students through those things, but in the long run, they typically get the lowest grades in the class (with the exception of the one super-lazy kid I always seem to end up with.)

I don't agree. While I can 6*7 in my head very quickly. I have trouble doing things like 13*17 in my head quickly, but give me a pencil and paper and I can do some of the most complex math problems.

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: DefDC
In high school, I got through basic algebra ok, although I've always HATED math. I couldn't, for the life of me, get through geometry. I passed with a mercy "D" because I tried so hard.

When I got to college, I got through basic and advanced algebra. I made it through trig. (almost all of these "C"s. As soon as I got to Calculus, I was done. I tried three times, with tutors and friends helping me. But it wasn't to be.

I read somewhere the mathematical part of the brain matures at different times in different people. I'm not sure if you might be a late bloomer, but there also walls to where people can go. I have a hard time doing basic math in my head. Give me a pencil and I can work out basic stuff easily. I think many people just have different abilities when it comes to math, intelligence not really being a factor.

My friend was exactly like you, I tried hard to help her out

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

Originally posted by: ICRS
I don't agree. While I can 6*7 in my head very quickly. I have trouble doing things like 13*17 in my head quickly, but give me a pencil and paper and I can do some of the most complex math problems.

6 * 7 is memory recall from multiplication tables, you don't need to do any calculations.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
In my experience as a math teacher, the students who have struggled most are the students who never memorized the most basic things: the multiplication table for example. If you can't multiply 6*7 instantly, then of course you're going to be lost when it becomes 6x * 7x = 42x². There's just too much to decipher rather than just one new thing. I can still get students through those things, but in the long run, they typically get the lowest grades in the class (with the exception of the one super-lazy kid I always seem to end up with.)

Partially disagree. I never memorized my multiplication tables systematically. I had to think for a moment and remember: 6 * 6 = 36 (one I do have memorized) so 6*6+6 = 6*7 = 42. I have passed every math class I've ever taken, have a degree in electrical engineering and a math minor.

I agree that there are important basic concepts that one must get, but memorizing specific facts like that isn't necessarily one of them. The important things to get a student to remember are the basic tools to solve problems.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: DrPizza
In my experience as a math teacher, the students who have struggled most are the students who never memorized the most basic things: the multiplication table for example. If you can't multiply 6*7 instantly, then of course you're going to be lost when it becomes 6x * 7x = 42x². There's just too much to decipher rather than just one new thing. I can still get students through those things, but in the long run, they typically get the lowest grades in the class (with the exception of the one super-lazy kid I always seem to end up with.)

I don't agree. While I can 6*7 in my head very quickly. I have trouble doing things like 13*17 in my head quickly, but give me a pencil and paper and I can do some of the most complex math problems.

unfortunately im forced to agree with the pizza guy here...

you can do 13 * 17 on paper, BECAUSE you have memorized 3 * 7, 1 * 7, 3 * 1, & 1 * 1 in your head.

If you dont memorize the basics, youll never be able to do the complex.

 

[PepePeru]

I've always had trouble w/ math.
I remember being excited about it (and homework in general) in grade school. I had some math homework in 3rd grade and it was long div. I could not grasp the concept of a remainder. my mom was trying to help me do it and started getting frustrated b/c I couldn't get it. she lost her temper and yelled at me or something, she has told me that the look of terror i gave her in response 'broke her heart'.

so, yeah. she probably shouldnt have been trying to teach me. I really don't think my brain is wired that way. I'm too visual a learner to grasp abstract concepts i couldnt see any applications for in real life (say for instance, algebra).

Now, stats... I can handle stats.

 

[Twista]

Not sure, but i know im just DUMB.

 

[QED]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: DrPizza
In my experience as a math teacher, the students who have struggled most are the students who never memorized the most basic things: the multiplication table for example. If you can't multiply 6*7 instantly, then of course you're going to be lost when it becomes 6x * 7x = 42x². There's just too much to decipher rather than just one new thing. I can still get students through those things, but in the long run, they typically get the lowest grades in the class (with the exception of the one super-lazy kid I always seem to end up with.)

I don't agree. While I can 6*7 in my head very quickly. I have trouble doing things like 13*17 in my head quickly, but give me a pencil and paper and I can do some of the most complex math problems.

unfortunately im forced to agree with the pizza guy here...

you can do 13 * 17 on paper, BECAUSE you have memorized 3 * 7, 1 * 7, 3 * 1, & 1 * 1 in your head.

If you dont memorize the basics, youll never be able to do the complex.

I don't know why you would "unfortunately" agree with Dr. Pizza-- he knows what he's talking about when it comes to math.

Anyways, for those of you who believe that it is your math skills alone that allow you to quickly calculate 6 * 7 and not just rote memorization, I would challenge you to mentally multiply two similiary small numbers (say 8 and 5), but in some base other than 10 (say, 9). Multipyling the numbers in base 10 first, then converting to base 9 is cheating. Not so quick and easy, huh?

 

[torpid]

Yes. There are all sorts of weird learning disorders.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: ICRS
ADD isn't real. It is another name for being LAZY.

I had some honors/ AP non math classes in high school. I'm far from lazy. Having ADD makes it 10x harder to learn, and since I can't take the medication due to various side effects, I have had to deal with it my whole life. Someone with ADD can come off as lazy because its simply 10x harder to learn when compared to a normal person, so they just give up.

Well, the whole left brain vs. right brain thing. Your problem appears to be more of getting your degree than anything else unless you really want to have math skills. It's often seemed to me that there's a tradeoff in the mind. If you are really good at certain types of mental processes, you are going to sacrifice other processes. You can look at your situation like that. You are probably artistically inclined. You say you play guitar, etc. You actually might be lucky. And if you don't get your degree, it's not the end of the world. Hey, Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard and did nicely for himself.

And my advice is don't even think about the medications.

 

[interchange]

Perhaps you should talk to your college counselor about your math issues.

Also, despite having tutors, you might need the right tutor. My wife is similarly bad at math, but I helped her get through it in order to graduate. I think there are certain things about math that are just intuitive to some people. It takes the right teacher to get the student to understand them. That won't work miracles, but it could get you to pass.

 

[Kyteland]

Since I have nothing to add, I'll just post this because it's funny.

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Heisenberg/MATHstupid.jpg

Not directed at the OP.