Is this why AMD has been aggressively promoting Zen?

[whm1974]

Do you mean the way GPUs come up so often in AMD discussions here?

Since most mainstream CPUS have iGPUs then the iGPUs are fair game for discussions.

 

[Unreal123]

Some people may agree or disagree that AMD always beat Nvida, and Intel on Power points, which nothing new from AMD.

 

[Maverick177]

It's not like AMD's future depends on Zen right? Who could have guessed?

 

[nkdesistyle]

They "delivered" on polaris based on price and the red hot mining craze. Clearly they did not deliver on performance per watt, which ultimately they will pay for in laptops (my local microcenter already has gaming laptops with 1060/1070/1080 cards in them), and they sure better deliver much better on performance per watt relative to the competition with Zen. Actually, I am amazed the stock hasnt crashed considering how poor the power use is of polaris and the fact that they have been absent for months already and will be absent many more months in the high end dgpu market.

I don't know you so please don't take this the wrong way. But what you said about stock prices going down because of the poor power use of polaris? WTF? That is really like the craziest thing I have heard. Polaris is doesn't use power poorly. AMD did the best they could and delivered power efficiency over their previous architecture. They don't always have to destroy the competition lol. Nvidia had crazy efficiency with maxwell and they built on that and got even better. AMD went from 300+ watts to 160 and got close performance to 390/390x. I am sure they way they are their drivers will probably take it up to 390x level.

despite my reasoning stock prices don't go down because a card uses 160w lol. Their stock prices have gone up because of their marketing and their gains in market share. Thats all they need and all they are shooting for.

 

[AtenRa]

The FIRST question we have to ask is "Why did the stock had such an increase in value).
Marketing alone doesnt make a stock increase/decrease

When we answer this, we can then continue with the rest of the OPs theory.

 

[Glo.]

And the purpose of this thread is? In GPU forum people get banned and threads locked for trolling. This thread and its main assumption cannot be considered otherwise.

AMD stock prices have been going up, before AMD started hyping Zen. Do they even hype Zen? You do not know that. Hype would be if the reality their marketing created was better than what is in reality, but you, OP, do not know that. You assume that, because thats what you think about AMD.

What inflates the stock prices, in the first place? Maybe the financial prospects in the first place? Financial prospects are hugely related to technology, don't you think?

What if on the other hand, AMD stock is still undervalued compared to what they can offer in technology? We do not know that, at this moment.

 

[zinfamous]

Do you mean the way GPUs come up so often in AMD discussions here?

no the way that AT forums as a whole have been fragmented into various subtopics over the years. I think discussing the business side of things is perfectly on topic in this forum but I see no reason to separate such discussions into their own forum. Have you ever stumbled into "discussion club"?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Has anyone said AMDs stock price may simply reflect its a good value at its price and Zen looking promising?

 

[frozentundra123456]

I don't know you so please don't take this the wrong way. But what you said about stock prices going down because of the poor power use of polaris? WTF? That is really like the craziest thing I have heard. Polaris is doesn't use power poorly. AMD did the best they could and delivered power efficiency over their previous architecture. They don't always have to destroy the competition lol. Nvidia had crazy efficiency with maxwell and they built on that and got even better. AMD went from 300+ watts to 160 and got close performance to 390/390x. I am sure they way they are their drivers will probably take it up to 390x level.

despite my reasoning stock prices don't go down because a card uses 160w lol. Their stock prices have gone up because of their marketing and their gains in market share. Thats all they need and all they are shooting for.

Polaris doesnt use power poorly? Seriously?? Even though it is improved vs the previous generation, they are still well behind nVidia, and fell well short of the much hyped 2.8x increase in performance per watt. This is a serious handicap for laptops and for high end chips where top performance is limited by power use. And power use is even more critical in Zen, which ultimately must succeed in the server market. If as it appears, their 14nm process is not as good as the competition, it is a serious handicap. The fact that they are willing to *pay* GF to use other foundaries also indicates this.

 

[zinfamous]

Has anyone said AMDs stock price may simply reflect its a good value at its price and Zen looking promising?

no, that would be crazy. Ask the OP: the only reality that we can assume is nefarious and potentially illegal actions by his hated silicon-manufacturing company. It's the only message we should consider.

A company isn't allowed to promote their products (never mind that you've been criticizing their poor marketing all this time). Such promotion can only ever be considered a smoke and mirrors attempt to fraudulently inflate stock prices because, obviously, we can't ever believe they are actually making good products, right? right? And of course when they actually do market their products for once, after investing real money on a new marketing department, the intent of that clearly isn't to promote real technology, but to hype the image of technology in order to inflate a stock price.

OP is dogwhistling in his OP....and hilariously in the silicon manufacturing world, which is kinda sad.

 

[zinfamous]

Polaris doesnt use power poorly? Seriously?? Even though it is improved vs the previous generation, they are still well behind nVidia, and fell well short of the much hyped 2.8x increase in performance per watt. This is a serious handicap for laptops and for high end chips where top performance is limited by power use. And power use is even more critical in Zen, which ultimately must succeed in the server market. If as it appears, their 14nm process is not as good as the competition, it is a serious handicap. The fact that they are willing to *pay* GF to use other foundaries also indicates this.

so because it doesn't use power as efficiently as Pascal, Polaris now uses power poorly?

Seems to me that Polaris draws more power per clock, but delivers more performance per clock than Pascal, which is a metric that doesn't really give anyone a platform from which to draw such conclusions as you wish to draw.

Yeah, power draw is more important in laptops and portables, but improving greatly over their own previous generation does not rationally deserve a label of "poor implementation."

 

[FIVR]

You can tell certain members not this forum are getting worried by how vacuous and innuendo-laden their post are, that alone should tell you how important Zen could be for the future of CPUs. These are the same members who advise people to buy 2GB 960/3GB 1060s for gaming and i3s when they need APUs.


I would be concerned too, if I were them. From what I understand a lot of the higher ups at intel are buying AMD stock right now, and making good returns.

 

[TemjinGold]

OP, the difference between "this is why" and "this may be why" is that the former requires proof. So do you have any? If not, I would ask that you change your title.

 

[zinfamous]

You can tell certain members not this forum are getting worried by how vacuous and innuendo-laden their post are, that alone should tell you how important Zen could be for the future of CPUs. These are the same members who advise people to buy 2GB 960/3GB 1060s for gaming and i3s when they need APUs.


I would be concerned too, if I were them. From what I understand a lot of the higher ups at intel are buying AMD stock right now, and making good returns.

I don't know if that means anything other than making good returns--individual agnostic.

AMD is up ~300% over the year.

 

[Glo.]

I don't know if that means anything other than making good returns--individual agnostic.

AMD is up ~300% over the year.

Imagine what will happen when Zen will turn out to be better than AMD is saying. Imagine what will happen when Vega will turn out to be better than anyone thinks right now.

That will be disaster for some people on this board.

 

[The Stilt]

Imagine what will happen when Zen will turn out to be better than AMD is saying.

A decade ago I wouldn't have been surprised if that would be the case, however nowdays with the current management... I'd say the odds for that to happen are pretty much the same as Elton John suddenly turning straight.

 

[Glo.]

Managment has nothing to do with engineering, from technical point of view. Its engineering know-how that creates the hardware, not managment.

 

[zinfamous]

Imagine what will happen when Zen will turn out to be better than AMD is saying. Imagine what will happen when Vega will turn out to be better than anyone thinks right now.

That will be disaster for some people on this board.

That is a long way off and I am skeptical of such a reality. Recent history and trends (I like to pay attention to such things) tells me that AMD, at best, will approach competitive levels with intel and, maybe nVidia. I highly doubt they will be claiming any real performance crown. In this world, those performance crowns are the distant past for AMD and only possibly the distant future as they have significant ground to cover to get back to that area; and getting there involves a lot of luck on top of proper decision-making for one, cycle over cycle. I think they are on the right path and I think these recent financial decisions are necessary to shed many of their crippling economic hindrances, but they really have to start delivering consistently on their technology.

But who knows if "approaching competitive levels" is good enough? It may not be--honestly, it probably isn't. From what I gather, AMD's primary target with Zen is data centers and they really have to deliver here with power efficiency and pricing to go after Intel. AMD vs nVidia or consumer CPU vs consumer CPU are really 2nd and 3rd fiddle to what happens wrg to Opteron vs Xeon.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Managment has nothing to do with engineering, from technical point of view. Its engineering know-how that creates the hardware, not managment.

However they live or die by managements hiring decisions, budgeting and timeline.

 

[zinfamous]

Managment has nothing to do with engineering, from technical point of view. Its engineering know-how that creates the hardware, not managment.

But both aspects--primarily management--have put them in the position where they now are, at the very bottom of their respective markets. Management does make the ultimate decision of which technology to pursue and which piece of the market to target. Engineering merely has to deliver on those goals. In the last several years, both divisions have failed on their respective strategies and targets.

But the recent turnover at both levels for AMD looks solid by any metric, so it's really a matter of management and engineering delivering on their current strategy quarter after quarter. I think they have a decent outlook assuming they can deliver and the market responds well, but no one would look at AMD right now and say that they are currently in an enviable position.

 

[Glo.]

That is a long way off and I am skeptical of such a reality. Recent history and trends (I like to pay attention to such things) tells me that AMD, at best, will approach competitive levels with intel and, maybe nVidia. I highly doubt they will be claiming any real performance crown. In this world, those performance crowns are the distant past for AMD and only possibly the distant future as they have significant ground to cover to get back to that area; and getting there involves a lot of luck on top of proper decision-making for one, cycle over cycle. I think they are on the right path and I think these recent financial decisions are necessary to shed many of their crippling economic hindrances, but they really have to start delivering consistently on their technology.

But who knows if "approaching competitive levels" is good enough? It may not be--honestly, it probably isn't. From what I gather, AMD's primary target with Zen is data centers and they really have to deliver here with power efficiency and pricing to go after Intel. AMD vs nVidia or consumer CPU vs consumer CPU are really 2nd and 3rd fiddle to what happens wrg to Opteron vs Xeon.

Vega does not have to be faster than Pascal to be better than anyone thinks right now it will be. Zen does not have to be faster than Broadwell to be better than anyone currently thinks it will be.

However they live or die by managements hiring decisions, budgeting and timeline.

Of course. But first rule is to never judge future, by past. Especially in engineering/technology. Did anyone expected performance/watt jump for Nvidia with Maxwell, by judging their past?

 

[moonbogg]

yes! more fragmentation of AT forums, because that has been working so well!

There's been a lot of times I was writing a response and I was about to mention something but realized it wasn't allowed in that particular sub forum. Most of the time I just say screw it and delete the whole damn post. Don't have the energy to split my thoughts up into several categories and chase down the right forum.
Regarding the OP, yeah maybe that's what AMD is doing. I don't really care about the stock crap or their reasons for priming the pump on these products. I care about how much FPS the chips will give in the latest games and how well the chips will OC. It seems like you are just trying to create doubt in people's minds about AMD's honesty. They might actually have a decent CPU finally and it looks like you are just trying to rain on their parade and make them look like they aren't legit or something.
I hope Zen comes in at great price/performance and shakes up the whole damn industry. Already we have heard about Intel 6 core mainstream chips. Think Zen had anything to do with that? I wouldn't doubt it. No one wants to buy an overpriced, boring intel quad when you can have a good 6 core Zen instead.

 

[zinfamous]

It seems like you are just trying to create doubt in people's minds about AMD's honesty. They might actually have a decent CPU finally and it looks like you are just trying to rain on their parade and make them look like they aren't legit or something.
.

I like how OP rather explicitly accused AMD of market manipulation--which is fraud--and still hasn't been tagged with a trolling/locked thread, which tends to be a very speedy action in the CPU/GPU forums here, due to the tireless efforts of the overworked mods fielding the endless stream of complaints that these forums seem to generate.

It makes me wonder where the majority of the reports for assumed examples of "trolling and character attacks" come from, if the example here hasn't generated the typical speedy mod reaction that would certainly happen with this thread had it been directed at OP's least-preferred silicon-manufacturing team.

Or, it's legitimately not considered trolling for reasons. I would think that non-vague accusations of fraud require actual evidence, though.

(this is not meant to be a mod callout, btw. It's a members-who-endlessly-report comments callout.) It strikes me as rather cynical that certain members are easily and quickly offended when others accuse one team of unfair, non-competitive, exploitative pricing schemes, and consider such comments as "trollish," where as comments here that suggest actual fraud are posted by and supported by (hello, tell-tale likes) those very same members that are the quickest to call for trolling in the other direction.

 

[Phynaz]

Managment has nothing to do with engineering, from technical point of view. Its engineering know-how that creates the hardware, not managment.

So wrong.

 

[Phynaz]

But first rule is to never judge future, by past.

Actually the very best predictor of future performance is past performance.