Is this writer just bitter or does she have a point?

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aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
her point about young adults these days experiencing a massively extended adolescence seems about right, whether or not you think it is a bad thing is another issue I suppose.
 

OsoVerde

Senior member
Dec 14, 2006
223
0
0
Hey guys, it is possible to shred this stupid article without being 10x more sexist than the author... Some of you would get more respect if you responded with legitimate criticism like the others, instead of saying the author wrote it because she was ugly and couldn't trap a man, hurr hurr. Just because the article mentions feminism doesn't mean it is feminist. Feminists don't expect men to be breadwinners any more than they expect women to be housekeepers. They expect people to quit doing things like making stupid comments attacking the appearance of female writers they disagree with, instead of attacking their words.

I'm female, mid 20's, dislike children, do like beer, certainly don't fault anyone else that feels the same. In today's world, you're crazy and going to be stuck below the poverty line if you get married by 18 and don't use birth control. Buying a house looks hopeless for most people my age, even if you have a partner/spouse/____ also contributing an income. When we grow up, we don't have a cushy middle-class life waiting. So forget having the white picket fence and kids, let's go to BevMo and get some interesting Belgian ale and start a round of UT, we can actually afford that.

...Even if I could afford it, I have no desire to reproduce and don't see why anyone should feel obligated to do it. Nobody should have kids unless they want 'em. I think this is only a good thing that people are realizing they don't have to cram themselves into little molds based on some mythical nuclear family when it's not for them. This benefits all genders.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,306
10,804
136
Originally posted by: OsoVerde
Hey guys, it is possible to shred this stupid article without being 10x more sexist than the author... Some of you would get more respect if you responded with legitimate criticism like the others, instead of saying the author wrote it because she was ugly and couldn't trap a man, hurr hurr. Just because the article mentions feminism doesn't mean it is feminist. Feminists don't expect men to be breadwinners any more than they expect women to be housekeepers. They expect people to quit doing things like making stupid comments attacking the appearance of female writers they disagree with, instead of attacking their words.

I'm female, mid 20's, dislike children, do like beer, certainly don't fault anyone else that feels the same. In today's world, you're crazy and going to be stuck below the poverty line if you get married by 18 and don't use birth control. Buying a house looks hopeless for most people my age, even if you have a partner/spouse/____ also contributing an income. When we grow up, we don't have a cushy middle-class life waiting. So forget having the white picket fence and kids, let's go to BevMo and get some interesting Belgian ale and start a round of UT, we can actually afford that.

...Even if I could afford it, I have no desire to reproduce and don't see why anyone should feel obligated to do it. Nobody should have kids unless they want 'em. I think this is only a good thing that people are realizing they don't have to cram themselves into little molds based on some mythical nuclear family when it's not for them. This benefits all genders.



:camera: 's ?
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,674
482
126
There are plenty of 20-something girls who still act like they are in high school. They were raised thinking they are princesses and that a relationship should resemble something they saw in a chick flick where there's always rose petals and bath tubs and none of it ever gets old or tedious.

On the opposite end of the spectrum you have responsible, independent women who, like the men she complains about, just don't feel a need to get married. That's simply what happens in countries that become more modern and industrialized. It's been happening in Europe for quite some time, and now it's starting to happen over here in the States as well. There's nothing necessarily wrong with it.
 

KingGheedora

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2006
3,248
1
81
If fewer men are getting married, doesn't that mean fewer women are getting married too? Why blame the men for this?

Also, can the average twenty-something afford to get married these days?
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Cliffs: God for fucking bid you watch television, play video games, read maxim or go clubbing. Your job is to finish schooling, get a job, marry my ugly ass, have kids, go to work, come home from work and do everything I tell you to and then repeat that until the day you die. I hope I never catch you smiling during any of that either.

Now, the whole article has a point, because people do need to grow up *sometime*. But that really is a problem of the ages, and a battle each person has to fight on their own, man or woman. Some people never grow up. Some people grow up too soon and then have midlife crisis or cheat on their loved ones. Some people grow up perfectly but never even find someone who loves them because they are deemed boring and average.

Now why the hell did she bring up Maxim? It makes her seem smart at first, until you realize that there were DOZENS of magazines that are a 100x worse than Maxim already on the market. That men of generations long past were reading.

Then she brings up clubbing, yet isn't the club a woman's playground? Guys go to clubs out of necessity to meet women. If women could pop out of the Xbox360 do you think guys would still go clubbing in any large numbers?

Originally posted by: BigJ
And in 1965 she would shut her damn mouth and get back in the kitchen.

Hahaha!
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
5,960
447
126
As some people have already indicated, the article is correct in identifying a trend. Young people (notice the gender-neutral term) prefer to take their time these days, instead of hurrying up to marry and have children, and men are especially tempted by this notion.

So... my reaction to reading that was "Why the F... not?"

If people choose to live their lives the way they want until they're in their 40s, who's to say this is good or bad? I don't buy into the whole "marriage and parenthood makes you a man" concept, I've seen too many good couples ruined by the rush to have children.

In any case, men are at a disadvantage in our society, when it comes to it, because they're likely to be hit with alimony and other such "pleasantries" if they make a mistake... so why, then, would you wonder that they're much more cautious before tying the knot?

Here one more thing... in the 60s, many people ended their education at the high-school level. Nowadays, college/university is the norm, and we're really seeing the trend for making graduate education the standard.

This means that people are finally "out" in the world at the age of 25, instead of 18, like the previous generation (assuming 30 years as the standard generation length)...
Add this factor to the reality that the world has really opened up in the last few decades, that we're healthier and live longer, and that people have understood that it's good to try various things to enrich their lives, and the entire article becomes a hollow shell, from a bitter and disappointed woman.

Also, I am having such a kick from reading your reactions, that I'm going to paste here some of the best:

Originally posted by: skace
Cliffs: God for*fucking*bid you watch television, play video games, read maxim or go clubbing. Your job is to finish schooling, get a job, marry my ugly ass, have kids, go to work, come home from work and do everything I tell you to and then repeat that until the day you die. I hope I never catch you smiling during any of that either.

Originally posted by: Special K
She seems to suggest that a man only has 2 places in life - either he is an immature guy whose only source of entertainment is pr0n, video games, and beer, or he is responsible and has a wife, house and kids. What about something in between? Can't a guy be mature and past the drunk/random hookup phase, but not ready for a wife and kids, and/or not own a house? Who is she to define what a guy's life goals must be?

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Women joining the workforce and making their own career has eliminated the necessity of a man to provide for them. They don't want to stay at home and crank out kids like they did for the past how many centuries. So the men don't have to grow up and take care of somebody else. The women don't have to grow up and take care of somebody else. Both sides are unburdended by a lot of baggage and responsibility.

Originally posted by: jagec
Written into this article is the innate assumption that all men are ignorant savages who need mature female guidance to hope to achieve adulthood.

Originally posted by: MisterJackson
Women wanted their independance and ability to date around. They also are getting married at a far older age now, if they marry at all. This "Man-child" syndrome she speaks of is only a logical answer to this new age woman.

Originally posted by: SSSnail
No, women want it all; the power, the money, the promiscuity... but when they hear their biological clocks ticking, and haven't really done much to prepare for motherhood, they realize that all that power and money and promiscuity are for naught, hence the article.

Originally posted by: ktehmok
Amen. You wanna "keep your options open"? Then don't expect a ring. Expect men to treat you the way they perceive you.

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
This article is written on the presumption that women automatically begin adulthood at the "proper" time, while men must be "made" men by interaction with, and defined by, women. How dare these SYM's shirk their cultural responsibilities by doing such inane things like being promiscuous (with their seemingly willing female counterparts), going to "the club" (where aforementioned females so innocently happen to be), and playing video games (an activity which few females seem to understand, and therefore cannot tolerate), when they should so obviously be searching for a wife to dote upon and fold clothes for.

Please. The jobless man in "About a Boy" is hardly the poster child for today's twenty-something man, and and our ardent refusal to settle down and provide you with a stable, uninteresting life filled with foot massages and babies isn't a sign of male degeneration. Female dependence upon men is at the root of this article, or else the author would have been so aloof and oblivious of this perceived "issue" as to have not noticed it at all.
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,425
2
0
She sounds like a bitter, manipulating bitch in terror and desperate as her biological clock is tick-tocking away. Or she just needs a good humping.
 

meltdown75

Lifer
Nov 17, 2004
37,558
7
81
once old birds like this hit a certain age, they snap. the article is a good example of this. lash out at exactly what you can't and never could have, sweetie. oh, those 20-something males! damn them! puhlease. her resentment for men is clearly harboured deep within a well-defined and decades-old complex created through rejection and not getting any d1ck that didn't operate on D-cell batteries.
 

Ramma2

Platinum Member
Jul 29, 2002
2,710
1
0
WAIT! In my spare time, I play basketball with my buddies, download the latest indie songs from iTunes, have some fun with the Xbox 360, take leisurely showers, AND I'm married, have 2 kids and am financially stable!?!?!?

*head explodes*

 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,431
3,537
126
Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
Female dependence upon men is at the root of this article, or else the author would have been so aloof and oblivious of this perceived "issue" as to have not noticed it at all.

Yeah, I found have always found it odd that feminist articles always set parameters that men should act within. If you're such a feminist, why do you need a brainwashed male to validate you? (and this article cries out for validation) That never seemed independent to me.

I also think they should spend more time trying to convince the rest of their gender to act how they want them to. Is hard for men to "bed, girls of widely varied hues and sizes" (<-implying that there are many willing volunteers) if they weren't willing. If you can't change your own sex then how do you expect to change the opposite sex.

Some feminist articles are actually constructed and argued well but this is mindless, poorly constructed drivel if you ask me.
- I see no support for her claims that women are 'over achieving' and men are 'underachieving'
-I see no support for her claims that "Men feel threatened by female empowerment, these thinkers argue, and in their anxiety, they cling to outdated roles"


"It is marriage and children that turn boys into men" followed by "he motley crew of Maxim, Comedy Central and Halo 3 aren't much to worry about," makes me thing she is implying that "man-child" males are interested in this and only marriage/kids can change this.

Well, I don't know about you guys, but I am married and I would still look at Maxim, I watch comedy central and play Halo3 and lots of video games. I think the past time roles of males are changing and I don't think video game playing and watching comedians (she never specified what it was about comedy central she didn't like so I am postulating) is going away. She needs to accept the re-definition of the male past times
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
With women, you could argue that adulthood is in fact emergent. Single women in their 20s and early 30s are joining an international New Girl Order, hyper-achieving in both school and an increasingly female-friendly workplace, while packing leisure hours with shopping, traveling and dining with friends. Single young males, or SYMs, by contrast, often seem to hang out in a playground of drinking, hooking up, playing Halo 3 and, in many cases, underachieving. With them, adulthood looks as though it's receding.

So, women go out and lead single lives, "dine" (drink and party), "travel" (sleep with Europeans) and shop (same shit, different decade), and get exalted as being pillars of the modern young woman, leaping through previous barriers of female progression. While when young men go out and have fun (of course being picked on in more specific terms of "drinking" and gaming), it's obviously only ever in the pursuit of immaturity. I love the double-standards (oh wait she's an old bitter feminist...typical).
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,733
564
126
Originally posted by: MisterJackson
Men in their mid twenties back in the day didn't have the female of our day to put up with.

How does she expect us to stack up to that notion of hers when women compatible for that type of setup just really don't exist anymore.

Wome wanted their independance and ability to date around. They also are getting married at a far older age now, if they marry at all. This "Man-child" syndrome she speaks of is only a logical answer to this new age woman.

Did she expect us to just stand around with our dicks in our hands?

Exactly. What exactly does she want to happen? If she wants some one to do her laundry for her on time, she should hire a maid with all of that wealth she has lying around from being such a successful career woman.

While its true that people (not just men) seem to live a much longer state of adolecence these days...the whole article just kind of feels like she's bitter because "Hey! I'm so successful, I'm an awesome modern woman who is independent!" and then men just go "Who cares?" and fire up their xbox.

Its true that a lot of men aren't going to grow until they have too...frankly, I don't see whats so surprising about that anyway? Why would you want to be responsible when you have no responsibilities? Apparently so you can be good and obvious marriage material for bitter biological clock tickers and fold laundry without complaining. Whoops! I guess some one forgot to tell all the young men out there they needed to bust their ass to live up to the standards of the author...afterall she is the only female left on the planet! There's no way men could resist her alluring charms!
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,502
1
81
Originally posted by: maddogchen
What happened between 1965 and now? the Feminist movement.

edit: answer to the question is she's bitter.

Legal, safe, and effective birth control became available. Now women do not have to give birth unless they decide to. Many people of my father's generation got married to have sex or someone got pregnant.

 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,733
564
126
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
Originally posted by: maddogchen
What happened between 1965 and now? the Feminist movement.

edit: answer to the question is she's bitter.

Legal, safe, and effective birth control became available. Now women do not have to give birth unless they decide to. Many people of my father's generation got married to have sex or someone got pregnant.

If thats the case, then we're really going to hear some howling once that male birth control pill comes out.
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
5,960
447
126
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Why would you want to be responsible when you have no responsibilities? Apparently so you can be good and obvious marriage material for bitter biological clock tickers and fold laundry without complaining. Whoops! I guess some one forgot to tell all the young men out there they needed to bust their ass to live up to the standards of the author...afterall she is the only female left on the planet! There's no way men could resist her alluring charms!

bwahahahaaa! this is so good, keep'em coming!
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Originally posted by: MisterJackson
Men in their mid twenties back in the day didn't have the female of our day to put up with.

How does she expect us to stack up to that notion of hers when women compatible for that type of setup just really don't exist anymore.

Wome wanted their independance and ability to date around. They also are getting married at a far older age now, if they marry at all. This "Man-child" syndrome she speaks of is only a logical answer to this new age woman.

Did she expect us to just stand around with our dicks in our hands?

Exactly. What exactly does she want to happen? If she wants some one to do her laundry for her on time, she should hire a maid with all of that wealth she has lying around from being such a successful career woman.

While its true that people (not just men) seem to live a much longer state of adolecence these days...the whole article just kind of feels like she's bitter because "Hey! I'm so successful, I'm an awesome modern woman who is independent!" and then men just go "Who cares?" and fire up their xbox.

Its true that a lot of men aren't going to grow until they have too...frankly, I don't see whats so surprising about that anyway? Why would you want to be responsible when you have no responsibilities? Apparently so you can be good and obvious marriage material for bitter biological clock tickers and fold laundry without complaining. Whoops! I guess some one forgot to tell all the young men out there they needed to bust their ass to live up to the standards of the author...afterall she is the only female left on the planet! There's no way men could resist her alluring charms!

that brings up the question of why do we have to grow up? im not saying be a leech and stay at home with the parents.

i mean why give up the things you enjoy? i'm 34. i still enjoy reading comic books, playing video games, collecting toys etc. BUT i also make sure all the bills are paid, children are taken care of, food in the pantry etc.

i take care of my responiblitys then play.
 

Ramma2

Platinum Member
Jul 29, 2002
2,710
1
0
Someone should email the writer a link to this thread and see if she comes and talks with us about it.

OH WAIT I just did!

*waves to Kay*
 

meltdown75

Lifer
Nov 17, 2004
37,558
7
81
Originally posted by: Ramma2
Someone should email the writer a link to this thread and see if she comes and talks with us about it.

OH WAIT I just did!

*waves to Kay*
lmao i hope you aren't kidding.
 

Ramma2

Platinum Member
Jul 29, 2002
2,710
1
0
Originally posted by: meltdown75
Originally posted by: Ramma2
Someone should email the writer a link to this thread and see if she comes and talks with us about it.

OH WAIT I just did!

*waves to Kay*
lmao i hope you aren't kidding.

I'm not.
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,933
3
81
1) this is a rehash of the the 60 minutes - the millenials

2) This is a rehash of the NYT article about the "oddesey generation"

3) Women are whining because men don't want to marry them on their time table. BOO HOO. Sorry lady, why am i rushing to marry you and knock you up? I am not in my prime until my 30s and i can get young women in there 20's well into my my 40's.

4) I'll take immature and childlike over bitchy, insecure, selfish and materialistic.

5) The obvious answer here is women have priced themselves out of the market. Marriage and children costs are enormous burden. Factor in the imminent divorce 10 years or less down the road and we have quite a deterrent to marrying young. We want to wait until we are established before doing those things. Again stop whining because we don't want to follow your timeline.

This article sucks and the woman who wrote it has little to no perspective on the situation.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: Ramma2
I'm not.

Rofl, Oh boy. I hope she doesn't accidentally wander into L&R.

...or the thread titled: Anyone have the Star Wars Force Master Replica Light Saber?
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
Women who work at think tanks and talk about (collectively all) women over-acheiving tend to have graduated from Brown, accomplished little else, and have many freinds from prep school who make a ton of money. They self-validate by association with their colleagues' success and hate themselves for it.
 
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