Is Vcore CPU specific or mobo specific?

[brassbin]

The specification of E2200 is "1.162V-1.312V", maybe i'm not looking at the right number. But i constantly see people raise their Vcore to 1.38 or 1.4, i thought you are not supposed to increase more than 10%?

 

[Scottae]

It depends on if you can cool it... and if your willing to loose it.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Originally posted by: brassbin
The specification of E2200 is "1.162V-1.312V", maybe i'm not looking at the right number. But i constantly see people raise their Vcore to 1.38 or 1.4, i thought you are not supposed to increase more than 10%?

It's CPU Specific. I thing that might be confusing with the "1.162 - 1.312V" is that the low 1.1V might be with speedstep (or whatever the auto-throttling is called).

Most CPU's, when not under load (ie idling) will run at a lower voltage and processor speed. So at full rated speed, the e2200 runs a 1.3V, and at idle, it runs at probably 1/2 speed or so with 1.1V.

A lot of intel CPU's also have variable default voltages, but that big of a range that you note.

As to increasing voltage, 10% is used a lot a "safe" limit to increasing voltage (10% of 1.3 = .13 for a total Voltage of 1.43). OF course some people don't mind risking their CPUs' dying after a while, so it's really a matter of what you are comfortable with, and how willign are you to buy a replacement if you kill the chip?

 

[brassbin]

so is 10% a safe bet for E2200?

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Originally posted by: brassbin
so is 10% a safe bet for E2200?

As long as you watch your temps, and don't let the CPU overheat, 10% should be fine.

I usually use 10% as the max I will increase voltage, and have never had a problem.

 

[brassbin]

in SpeedFan 4.33, there are 2 vcore voltages being shown, the 1st one seems to corrspond to what i set, but the 2nd always shows 1.8V even before i raised vcore, what's up with that?

 

[aigomorla]

lol... i think your getting your terms mixed up.

When people mention Vcore they mean voltage at which the core is recieving. There is only 1 accurate way to get this, and thats a multi meter.

Most of us when we say Vcore we'll state CPU-Z loaded voltages. The voltage reading at which the a motherboard monitoring program or cpu-z will list when your running prime on all 4 cores.

Now why vcore is important is because the other term, bios voltage, the difference can get quite large with things like vdroop. That is why people use the term vcore for a more accurate and precise number instead of bios voltage because vdroop is YMMV on each company.

Example would be: If i set my bios @ 1.4 the loaded vcore on some boards would be like 1.322-1.378. This is why we say Vcore, so we know exactly around what voltage the cpu is recieveing.

 

[brassbin]

SpeedFan 4.33, "Readings" tab, lower left hand coner, there are 2 numbers labelled "Vcore1" & "Vcore2", Vcore1's reading is 1.26V, Vcore2's reading is 1.82V. Why is that, i have set the BIOS voltage back to the original/default 1.3V for my E2200.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

In SpeedFan:

VCore1 = CPU voltage
VCore2 = RAM voltage

 

[brassbin]

ah...ok, back to aigomorla's explanation, when i raised BIOS voltage from 1.3V to 1.312V, 2 increments of 0.006V which is my MoBo(Gigabyte GA-73VM-S2)'s predefined smallest unit, in both SpeedFan 4.33 and CPU-Z 1.43, the Vcore reading is still 1.2xxxV well below 1.3V, i know there is this vdroop thing, but i'm Prime95'ing, does that mean the increase in BIOS voltage didn't kick in?

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: brassbin
ah...ok, back to aigomorla's explanation, when i raised BIOS voltage from 1.3V to 1.312V, 2 increments of 0.006V which is my MoBo(Gigabyte GA-73VM-S2)'s predefined smallest unit, in both SpeedFan 4.33 and CPU-Z 1.43, the Vcore reading is still 1.2xxxV well below 1.3V, i know there is this vdroop thing, but i'm Prime95'ing, does that mean the increase in BIOS voltage didn't kick in?

two things.

1. it could mean that your cpu only needs such voltage to run stable.

2. it could also mean your vdroop is acting gay so its more sensitive at higher voltage. Only real way is the stress test with higher voltage.

Also did you disable windows automatic update? sometimes thats very notorious for restarting your computer when your stress testing.

 

[brassbin]

don't think it's the auto update, so when increasing BIOS voltage i can up a little more than 1.4V, because vdroop would make the actual Vcore below 1.4V?

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: brassbin
don't think it's the auto update, so when increasing BIOS voltage i can up a little more than 1.4V, because vdroop would make the actual Vcore below 1.4V?

yes... when you put load on the cpu, the vdroop will bring the voltage down a few notches.

Make sure you keep an eye on those loaded temps tho. Dont pass 70C. Reason why we say 70C is because on each chip there is a solder holding the die and IHS together.

That solder melts at around 73-75C. And its not very smart to melt then solidify and then melt again then solidify and melt again.... you get the idea?

 

[LOUISSSSS]

so when we say my CPU is running @ 3.6ghz @ 1.280vCore that 1.280 reading is from CPU-Z?

thats exactly my case because my voltage set in the bios is 1.3500v and under P95 SmallFFT load CPU-Z says 1.280V

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: brassbin
don't think it's the auto update, so when increasing BIOS voltage i can up a little more than 1.4V, because vdroop would make the actual Vcore below 1.4V?

yes... when you put load on the cpu, the vdroop will bring the voltage down a few notches.

Make sure you keep an eye on those loaded temps tho. Dont pass 70C. Reason why we say 70C is because on each chip there is a solder holding the die and IHS together.

That solder melts at around 73-75C. And its not very smart to melt then solidify and then melt again then solidify and melt again.... you get the idea?

No offense, but I think that's a load of bunk.

I have my E2140s running 85C 24/7, and they're not melting or misbehaving.

Do you actually know of any confirmed reports of CPUs dying, that showed that the solder on the heatspreader melted?

Edit: My friend has a B3 X3210 chip, that runs hot. Before he got his current cooler, he was running at 100C core temps at load. (It was thermal throttling, and failing to keep things cool. CoreTemp started reading negative numbers, then question marks!)

I don't think his chip melted, it certainly didn't fail, and hasn't seemed to have been harmed in any way.

Not to mention, the BIOS temp shutdown options that I've seen on my DS3R - the lowest temp you can select is 70C (Tcase temp). There is also 75, 80, and 85C. If there is a risk of melting the CPU at just over 72-73C, then why do they offer such high shutdown temps?
Intel's specs for my M0-step chip list max Tcase value at 73C or so. Do you think that they would spec all the way up to the solder's melting point? Or do you think that they would leave a safe engineering margin?

 

[brassbin]

another question i have, is FSB wall CPU specific or MoBo specific? obviously the higher the multi the higher one can overclock that particular CPU, but at the same time i hear this notion about a MoBo being a good overclocker, that would mean a good board also has some influence on how high can one oc? i guess the answer is a bit of both, but then i have this question, given my Allendale E2200, would my MoBo Gigabyte GA-73VM-S2 actually limit the potential of the CPU's oc ability, or just not aiding in terms of raising FSB more or more stability, in another words is it a negative or just something that doesn't add more?

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: brassbin
don't think it's the auto update, so when increasing BIOS voltage i can up a little more than 1.4V, because vdroop would make the actual Vcore below 1.4V?

yes... when you put load on the cpu, the vdroop will bring the voltage down a few notches.

Make sure you keep an eye on those loaded temps tho. Dont pass 70C. Reason why we say 70C is because on each chip there is a solder holding the die and IHS together.

That solder melts at around 73-75C. And its not very smart to melt then solidify and then melt again then solidify and melt again.... you get the idea?

No offense, but I think that's a load of bunk.

I have my E2140s running 85C 24/7, and they're not melting or misbehaving.

Do you actually know of any confirmed reports of CPUs dying, that showed that the solder on the heatspreader melted?

Edit: My friend has a B3 X3210 chip, that runs hot. Before he got his current cooler, he was running at 100C core temps at load. (It was thermal throttling, and failing to keep things cool. CoreTemp started reading negative numbers, then question marks!)

I don't think his chip melted, it certainly didn't fail, and hasn't seemed to have been harmed in any way.

Not to mention, the BIOS temp shutdown options that I've seen on my DS3R - the lowest temp you can select is 70C (Tcase temp). There is also 75, 80, and 85C. If there is a risk of melting the CPU at just over 72-73C, then why do they offer such high shutdown temps?
Intel's specs for my M0-step chip list max Tcase value at 73C or so. Do you think that they would spec all the way up to the solder's melting point? Or do you think that they would leave a safe engineering margin?

The IHS is attached to the core tops with an Indium based solder allow with a melting point of approximately 100° Centigrade. Even if coretemp shows temperatures this high the solder isn't going to melt. It would take a LOT of heat as the entire IHS, fillet and area below would have to be well over 100°C to get this to flow. Someone milled the IHS and inserted a tiny RTD and found the actual metal temps considerably cooler than what coretemp readings were. This is not to say coretemp readings are wrong - the mass of the area where the diode is and its location make it possible to be that high. This is why to keep those readings low it takes a lot of mass (block with heatpipes or water coolant) to remove the heat quickly.

 

[brassbin]

interesting info, what about my question on FSB wall as it relates to MoBo's?

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Do you actually know of any confirmed reports of CPUs dying, that showed that the solder on the heatspreader melted?

Edit: My friend has a B3 X3210 chip, that runs hot. Before he got his current cooler, he was running at 100C core temps at load. (It was thermal throttling, and failing to keep things cool. CoreTemp started reading negative numbers, then question marks!)

I don't think his chip melted, it certainly didn't fail, and hasn't seemed to have been harmed in any way.

Not to mention, the BIOS temp shutdown options that I've seen on my DS3R - the lowest temp you can select is 70C (Tcase temp). There is also 75, 80, and 85C. If there is a risk of melting the CPU at just over 72-73C, then why do they offer such high shutdown temps?
Intel's specs for my M0-step chip list max Tcase value at 73C or so. Do you think that they would spec all the way up to the solder's melting point? Or do you think that they would leave a safe engineering margin?

No your absolutely right, however i do know of cases where overclock would fail over prolong time periods. Most of the cases were linked because people would have there processors loaded for more then 70C for a couple of hours(gaming or encoding), and then would turn the system off(sleeping) and then repeat.

The constant cycle of changing phases will reduce the efficiency of the compound. Basic Physics.

This is just my recomendation and advice, if you want to preserve your hardware for many many years, or want to keep it at its tip toes until you sell it. This is my recomendation.

But of course, its your hardware, and ultimately up to you. :]

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Rubycon
The IHS is attached to the core tops with an Indium based solder allow with a melting point of approximately 100° Centigrade. Even if coretemp shows temperatures this high the solder isn't going to melt.

actually ruby, someone who pulled the IHS also tested the melting point of the sodder. And he recorded it to be somewhere between 73-77C where he saw melting happen.

Unless you can show me a different review? But off XS and BBmods, the two concensus was the solder melts at 73-77C.

I did hear however the solder was safe for much higher temps before it gets bad, but as i said, constant changing of phases at the lower temps has to effect it. If your server is loaded @ 70C + 24/7 its not changing phases.

But once again, its your hardware and how you want to treat it is up to you.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Brassbin, enable your profile so that you can recieve PMs, please.

I have a question for you about the Gigabyte GA-73VM-S2 mobo and your E2200. What is the highest FSB that you can run on that mobo with the E2200. Lower the multiplier as low as it will go, and then adjust the FSB. Please let me know.

I want to OC a 200FSB chip to 333FSB or higher, and I want to find out if that mobo can do that. My Wolfdale1333 board tops out at the base CPU FSB + 66Mhz, so a 200FSB CPU maxes out at 266FSB. I have to do a BSEL mod to 266, in order to reach a 333 OC. I don't want to do a BSEL mod, so I want to find out if your mobo will do that without a BSEL mod. Thanks.

 

[lopri]

VirtualLarry, what is your CPU's temp at its stock frequency and stock VID? Via CoreTemp 0.95 and 0.96.

 

[brassbin]

Larry, this is embarrasing, but how do i enable PM? i will try lower my multi to get the highest FSB.

 

[brassbin]

320 FSB and Prime95'ing...core temps around 65C and Vcore 1.38V, i increased BIOS voltage to 1.42V though, so a vdroop of .04V?

update: been Prime95'ing almost 10 hours now, still running with around 65C, i did saw it peaked up to 67C occasionally

 

[brassbin]

oh and multi is set to 6