Is XP a bottleneck for a SSD?

Padmasana

Junior Member
Feb 21, 2012
12
0
0
And this means in ANY way possible, as I want to know if I can get the full potential of using a SSD.
I am going to use the SSD as main drive - with no other drive.
It is Windows XP Home Edition.
And will there be any difference in compatibility, if I choose either a Sata 2 (My motherboard doesn't support Sata 3), or a PCI-e SSD?

The only problem I have, is that I really don't want to change my OS, as I dislike Windows 7. I have used it for about 20 hours, tweaked it and what not, but I can't customize it to my liking, as I can on XP.

If you need any other PC specs, just ask.
Thanks!
 

groberts101

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2011
1,390
0
0
yes XP will be weaker on any SSD as a result of drivers alone.

Most SSD shouldn't care what OS is installed but you will have issues with some SSD's as a result of that non-trimmed environment and will need to use idle time garbage collection to recover dirty nand.

The worst SSD with the worst OS.. will be better than the best HDD with the best OS. Given the choice though?.. I would always take a better OS with an SSD and W7 will give you that.
 

Motorheader

Diamond Member
Sep 3, 2000
3,682
0
0
XP will work fine as long as the drive/chipset work together and you're willing to do just a little more work to get the drive going correctly. Go with an Intel or Samsung based drive if you want the trim/optimizer like utility or a Toshiba Kingston V+ if you do a lot of reads/writes to the drive since they seem to be more aggessive with GC.

What size drive are you thinking about? Do you have a budget in mind?
 
Last edited:

Padmasana

Junior Member
Feb 21, 2012
12
0
0
Out of interest, what issues do you have with Windows 7?

To be honest, I don't think I have a reason, other than the extra cost. I haven't buggled much with Windows 7.
One issue might be the automisation with updates, pop-up updates, and the verify screen before every single installation or update. But I guess it can be turned off?
I also have a hard time with the menu's, as I feel like I am clicking about double as much, as in XP, for similar tasks. But that might be a question about time and adapting (Which isn't hard for me, as I already use JoliOS, XP, and Ubuntu on a regular basis).

Conclusion: I will change to Windows 7 anyway, if XP is a bottleneck, or a hassle to set up with an SSD.

By the way, the most important question to me, is the differences between PCI-e and Sata 2 on XP? Sata 3 should be needed for speed, if using Sata, and I am not sure whether XP supports PCI-e SSD's.

And to answer the question about size and speed, it must be at least 120 gb, approximately 500mb of reading speed, no lower limit on writing speed, and must cost a maximum of 350 USD, Windows 7 included in the measure, if applicable.
I live in Denmark, and to give you a picture of pricing, then I can note these pricings, converted to USD:
OCZ Agility 3, 120 GB, 525/500 - 180 USD
OCZ Vertex 3, 120 gb, 550/520 - 200 USD
OCZ RevoDrive 3 SSD, 120 GB, 975/875 MB/s
- 450 USD
Intel drives is on average a whopping 35% more expensive, considering size and speed.
 

kbp

Senior member
Oct 8, 2011
577
0
0
Just make sure you over-provision it by about 20% when using XP.
 

Shawn

Lifer
Apr 20, 2003
32,237
53
91
I would be worried that because XP isn't designed for SSDs that it may cause unnecessary writes and reduce the lifespan of the SSD.

Either way, XP is sooo old. It really is a good idea to upgrade.
 

RavenSEAL

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2010
8,670
3
0
I would be worried that because XP isn't designed for SSDs that it may cause unnecessary writes and reduce the lifespan of the SSD.

Either way, XP is sooo old. It really is a good idea to upgrade.

Does XP even have native TRIM support?
 

Padmasana

Junior Member
Feb 21, 2012
12
0
0

zephxiii

Member
Sep 29, 2009
183
0
76
XP is a good solid classic...but you are going to get the most out of any modern hardware with Windows 7. Heck 7 runs great on my Old Thinkpad T43 with single core Centrino 1.8ghz & 1.5GB ram.

I really enjoy 7's UI improvements.....and this is coming from someone that really hated Vista's UI. I still love XP's UI (got to love that up directory button) and how quick it is on older hardware......actually when I boot into XP on good hardware I always think "Damn this shit flies!!", couldn't imagine XP on SSD lol.
 
Last edited:

Motorheader

Diamond Member
Sep 3, 2000
3,682
0
0
You will replace the drive before you wear it out. If you run something like SSD Tweaker free on XP it will help you get the most out of the drive without worrying about writes.

It looks like this is within your price range: http://www.proconsult.dk/katalog/m_sto/s_sto-hdd4/hdd-ssd25p/hd-ssd520-120gb.html

XP is not the issue with SATA3, capability of the motherboard chipset or your drive controller card and the controller on the SSD.
 

Padmasana

Junior Member
Feb 21, 2012
12
0
0
You will replace the drive before you wear it out. If you run something like SSD Tweaker free on XP it will help you get the most out of the drive without worrying about writes.

It looks like this is within your price range: http://www.proconsult.dk/katalog/m_sto/s_sto-hdd4/hdd-ssd25p/hd-ssd520-120gb.html

XP is not the issue with SATA3, capability of the motherboard chipset or your drive controller card and the controller on the SSD.

If that is so... I think my mobo will be a huge bottleneck. M3N-h-Hdmi.
 

Qbah

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2005
3,754
10
81
I usually buy stuff here: http://www.fcomputer.dk/hardware/harddisk/ssd/

They have the best prices as far as I can tell, have a shop in Copenhagen (on Falkoner Allé, Frederiksberg) and you can order stuff for in-store pickup if it's not available on location. Friendly folks behind the counter too.

EDIT - forgot to comment on the actual matter... :awe:
Grab an Intel 320 series, those things are awesome! I bought several already, for me and friends (also the previous version, X25-M). Zero issues. Should be just fine with that mobo. As for XP... do yourself a favor and switch to Win7 Will it run very fast under XP? Of course, it's an SSD - those things are crazy fast. Even if there may be performance loss, you won't really notice it.
 
Last edited:

Padmasana

Junior Member
Feb 21, 2012
12
0
0
Seems like the Intel SSD's will be my best bet, as I can use it on XP, and then later on buy Windows 7.
Motorheader (Great band, by the way!), it has a PCI-e X1 connector, but does a PCI-e to SATA3 adapter exist? (Sorry, I have been living under a rock, concerning PC hardware the last year). The PCI-e SSD's won't work, I guess, since they are at least X2, and most of them X4.
 

Motorheader

Diamond Member
Sep 3, 2000
3,682
0
0
The cards do exist but if memory serves me correct it PCIe X1 has at least 2 revs with with the speed doubling from ~250 to ~500 with the updated spec. Not sure about the rev on your board.

The Samsung 830 is also in the size/speed range you mentioned and has the SSD Magician software.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
The only problem I have, is that I really don't want to change my OS, as I dislike Windows 7. I have used it for about 20 hours, tweaked it and what not, but I can't customize it to my liking, as I can on XP.
In two years, you will have to change from XP, anyway. I'm not fond of the 7 start menu, but the OS is generally a step forward. Check out Classic Shell. IMO, the up button and file dialog changes are the best part, but they also have a rebuilt old-style start menu, with less clicking to get places. You can turn UAC off, but you'll be better off to get used to it. If Apple and Ubuntu users can handle an extra dialog here and there, so can you . Also, setting up an SSD for Windows 7 is as easy as installing the OS from the disc.

I would make a point, if sticking with XP for now, to align the partitions properly. Performance should not change much, but I would be concerned about XP causing higher wear compared to aligned partitions, since XP is a fairly write-happy OS. It will bottleneck the SSD some, but OTOH, an HDD having to physically move the head around is still the biggest bottleneck to worry about.

If you want 500MB/s reads, you'll need either RAID, a PCIE-e SSD, or a nice controller card. Most cards are not going to perform as well as an Intel or AMD IO hub. For the cost of one that I would trust to perform well enough (LSI 4-port 6Gbps would be my minimum), you'd have to spend half the cost of a CPU+mobo+RAM upgrade.

IMO, if you are not already using SSDs, get an Intel or Samsung (being limited to 3Gbps, a 320 for the right price would be a good bet; I'd get a Samsung 830 if considering a CPU+mobo upgrade in the near future, assuming brand and model price differences mimic what we see in the U.S.), and deal with the torture of knowing that a more expensive drive in a brand new computer might be faster, while you try to figure out what to do while you aren't waiting on arms to find data tracks on a spinning platter. Seriously, you're dealing well in excess of an order of magnitude of improvement in all-around storage performance, in some cases in excess of two orders of magnitude. Large file copies are the only situation where a good 3Gbps SSD will only be 2-4 times typical HDD speeds.

Technically, 3Gbps will bottleneck both random and sequential loads, but well, context matters. On a power user's desktop, the differences between SSD controllers and firmware will present themselves much more than 3Gbps v. 6Gbps, except in large copy jobs. 6Gbps would be nice and all, but it's not worth losing sleep over, unless 200+MB/s file transfers will cost you money (in which case, you could afford a mobo+CPU+RAM upgrade, since it would pay for itself over some time period).
 

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,373
2,251
136
To be honest, I don't think I have a reason, other than the extra cost. I haven't buggled much with Windows 7.
One issue might be the automisation with updates, pop-up updates, and the verify screen before every single installation or update. But I guess it can be turned off?
I also have a hard time with the menu's, as I feel like I am clicking about double as much, as in XP, for similar tasks. But that might be a question about time and adapting (Which isn't hard for me, as I already use JoliOS, XP, and Ubuntu on a regular basis).

Conclusion: I will change to Windows 7 anyway, if XP is a bottleneck, or a hassle to set up with an SSD.

By the way, the most important question to me, is the differences between PCI-e and Sata 2 on XP? Sata 3 should be needed for speed, if using Sata, and I am not sure whether XP supports PCI-e SSD's.

And to answer the question about size and speed, it must be at least 120 gb, approximately 500mb of reading speed, no lower limit on writing speed, and must cost a maximum of 350 USD, Windows 7 included in the measure, if applicable.
I live in Denmark, and to give you a picture of pricing, then I can note these pricings, converted to USD:
OCZ Agility 3, 120 GB, 525/500 - 180 USD
OCZ Vertex 3, 120 gb, 550/520 - 200 USD
OCZ RevoDrive 3 SSD, 120 GB, 975/875 MB/s
- 450 USD
Intel drives is on average a whopping 35% more expensive, considering size and speed.


Yeah but I just bought a pair of Dynaudio Focus 220 II speakers and I'm sure I paid a lot more than you could get them for! Win some, lose some.
 

Padmasana

Junior Member
Feb 21, 2012
12
0
0
In two years, you will have to change from XP, anyway. I'm not fond of the 7 start menu, but the OS is generally a step forward. Check out Classic Shell. IMO, the up button and file dialog changes are the best part, but they also have a rebuilt old-style start menu, with less clicking to get places. You can turn UAC off, but you'll be better off to get used to it. If Apple and Ubuntu users can handle an extra dialog here and there, so can you . Also, setting up an SSD for Windows 7 is as easy as installing the OS from the disc.

I would make a point, if sticking with XP for now, to align the partitions properly. Performance should not change much, but I would be concerned about XP causing higher wear compared to aligned partitions, since XP is a fairly write-happy OS. It will bottleneck the SSD some, but OTOH, an HDD having to physically move the head around is still the biggest bottleneck to worry about.

If you want 500MB/s reads, you'll need either RAID, a PCIE-e SSD, or a nice controller card. Most cards are not going to perform as well as an Intel or AMD IO hub. For the cost of one that I would trust to perform well enough (LSI 4-port 6Gbps would be my minimum), you'd have to spend half the cost of a CPU+mobo+RAM upgrade.

IMO, if you are not already using SSDs, get an Intel or Samsung (being limited to 3Gbps, a 320 for the right price would be a good bet; I'd get a Samsung 830 if considering a CPU+mobo upgrade in the near future, assuming brand and model price differences mimic what we see in the U.S.), and deal with the torture of knowing that a more expensive drive in a brand new computer might be faster, while you try to figure out what to do while you aren't waiting on arms to find data tracks on a spinning platter. Seriously, you're dealing well in excess of an order of magnitude of improvement in all-around storage performance, in some cases in excess of two orders of magnitude. Large file copies are the only situation where a good 3Gbps SSD will only be 2-4 times typical HDD speeds.

Technically, 3Gbps will bottleneck both random and sequential loads, but well, context matters. On a power user's desktop, the differences between SSD controllers and firmware will present themselves much more than 3Gbps v. 6Gbps, except in large copy jobs. 6Gbps would be nice and all, but it's not worth losing sleep over, unless 200+MB/s file transfers will cost you money (in which case, you could afford a mobo+CPU+RAM upgrade, since it would pay for itself over some time period).

Thanks a lot! All the answers I needed in on1 place. 2-4 times the speed of regular HDD is okay for me, right now. But I will maybe wait a little, and finally get Windows 7, and a PCI-e SSD, as it seems the easiest way of doing it. It might get cheaper when I even get the money for it, hehe.
I am probably going to buy a new CPU soon, and a new mobo to finish the build.
Thanks a lot, from everyone!
 

Concillian

Diamond Member
May 26, 2004
3,751
8
81
IMO, you've waited this long, why not wait until Win8?

If you're okay with your current OS, just hang on to it for another few months. Win8 is not that far off.

People are really overstating the need for a TRIM OS. drives have good enough garbage collection right now that TRIM is barely useful. Three generations of SSDs ago, when garbage collection was terrible, yeah, it mattered, but now? It's really not a big deal unless you write several times the size of the drive in a typical day.

Even write amplification isn't a big deal, at my typical usage with Vista, I'm projected to run out of write cycles on my Intel 320 sometime in the 2050s. If XP were twice as bad, then the drive would only last for 12-15 years. Oh, no!

People are super paranoid about SSDs, but a lot of that is completely unfounded unless your usage is rather extraordinarily write heavy.
 
Last edited:

Padmasana

Junior Member
Feb 21, 2012
12
0
0
IMO, you've waited this long, why not wait until Win8?

If you're okay with your current OS, just hang on to it for another few months. Win8 is not that far off.

People are really overstating the need for a TRIM OS. drives have good enough garbage collection right now that TRIM is barely useful. Three generations of SSDs ago, when garbage collection was terrible, yeah, it mattered, but now? It's really not a big deal unless you write several times the size of the drive in a typical day.

I will probably wait until Windows 8 sees the light, as I won't have the money needed before, if I get any unforeseen expenses.
Seems like TRIM is just an extra gimmick, if I get that. I write a maximum of 10 gb in a day, and that would be in a weekend with nothing else to do.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Seems like TRIM is just an extra gimmick, if I get that. I write a maximum of 10 gb in a day, and that would be in a weekend with nothing else to do.
TRIM effectively increases over-provisioning by nearly the amount of free file system space. The amount of over-provisioning you have gives you diminishing returns after some point, dependent on usage pattern (generally, anything past 20% is going to be wasted, but <5% is bad news for any but light users). Previous generation garbage collection was rather half-baked on many controllers, and they used TRIM as a crutch. The gimmicky-ness is from being able to market it as an extra cool feature, like how my ISP advertises throttling as a short-term speed boost . Now, it can be of measurable net benefit, but not enough to worry about if it's not working.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |