Islam - a peaceful religion ??

[Adn4n]

Originally posted by: stratman

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Neos

Originally posted by: Aimster
Nowhere in the Quran does it say non-Muslims will die

Does it say that the infidel must die - or anything akin to that?

The religion of Islam condemns the killing or even the persecution of people merely because they embrace a different religion. The Quran mandates the absolute freedom of religion in a society. It does not allow Muslims to fight except for self defense and to enforce peace. It does not allow restrictions on those who disagree on religious matters. It urges the Muslims to treat such people kindly and equitably:

[Quran 6:151] "...... You shall not kill - GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. These are His commandments to you, that you may understand."

[Quran17:33] "You shall not kill any person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. ....."

[Quran 8:61]"If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient."

[Quran 4:90]"...... Therefore, if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them."

Some of the terrorist groups which massacre innocent people consider themselves martyrs. Those who kill the innocent people in the name of their religion or the name of God, who think of themselves as martyrs should think twice. Their act is actually strongly condemned by God in the the verses of the Quran. These people are disobeying God's commandments and the TRUTH in the Quran. Instead they blindly follow the opinion of their corrupted leaders (and scholars). It is not a surprise that God has not granted them victory. Quite the contrary they have been the most humiliated, defeated and oppressed people on earth. Worse, they are oppressed by their own rulers.

Our Creator is one and the same. The God of the Muslims is the same God of the Jews and the Christians and all the other religions. God does not permit one group the killing of innocent people of the other religions.

The blame lies with the terrorists and not the religion they claim to adhere to. Not everyone who calls himself a Muslim is a Muslim as much as not every one who thinks of himself as a Jew or a Christian is one.

I respect that people are calm and rational in this thread, thank you. I do not want this reply to be taken as anything akin to a flame, I'm just curious about some of the things the Quaran says:

In your first two quotes it says "You shall not kill... except in the course of justice"
I think the 'except in the course of justice' part is the part that scares most people. Those terrorists who massacre the innocent, probably just say that their actions are in line with the course of justice, and that those they killed are not really innocent, but sinning infidels, right?
I know Christianity believes that nobody is innocent, and that all are sinners. Does Islam also believe that?
And if it does, isn't there room in which lunatics can justify their actions :/

I know people can twist any words to their desires, and that religious scripts are constantly being reinterpreted. Is there an official interpretation for 'the course of justice' in context of the above quotes?

Thanks

no

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: stratman

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Neos

Originally posted by: Aimster
Nowhere in the Quran does it say non-Muslims will die

Does it say that the infidel must die - or anything akin to that?

The religion of Islam condemns the killing or even the persecution of people merely because they embrace a different religion. The Quran mandates the absolute freedom of religion in a society. It does not allow Muslims to fight except for self defense and to enforce peace. It does not allow restrictions on those who disagree on religious matters. It urges the Muslims to treat such people kindly and equitably:

[Quran 6:151] "...... You shall not kill - GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. These are His commandments to you, that you may understand."

[Quran17:33] "You shall not kill any person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. ....."

[Quran 8:61]"If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient."

[Quran 4:90]"...... Therefore, if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them."

Some of the terrorist groups which massacre innocent people consider themselves martyrs. Those who kill the innocent people in the name of their religion or the name of God, who think of themselves as martyrs should think twice. Their act is actually strongly condemned by God in the the verses of the Quran. These people are disobeying God's commandments and the TRUTH in the Quran. Instead they blindly follow the opinion of their corrupted leaders (and scholars). It is not a surprise that God has not granted them victory. Quite the contrary they have been the most humiliated, defeated and oppressed people on earth. Worse, they are oppressed by their own rulers.

Our Creator is one and the same. The God of the Muslims is the same God of the Jews and the Christians and all the other religions. God does not permit one group the killing of innocent people of the other religions.

The blame lies with the terrorists and not the religion they claim to adhere to. Not everyone who calls himself a Muslim is a Muslim as much as not every one who thinks of himself as a Jew or a Christian is one.

I respect that people are calm and rational in this thread, thank you. I do not want this reply to be taken as anything akin to a flame, I'm just curious about some of the things the Quaran says:

In your first two quotes it says "You shall not kill... except in the course of justice"
I think the 'except in the course of justice' part is the part that scares most people. Those terrorists who massacre the innocent, probably just say that their actions are in line with the course of justice, and that those they killed are not really innocent, but sinning infidels, right?
I know Christianity believes that nobody is innocent, and that all are sinners. Does Islam also believe that?
And if it does, isn't there room in which lunatics can justify their actions :/

I know people can twist any words to their desires, and that religious scripts are constantly being reinterpreted. Is there an official interpretation for 'the course of justice' in context of the above quotes?

Thanks

The simple answer to that is "course of justice" implies punishment to the guilty based on sound evidence as required by the Islamic law.

Islam believes that no one is free from sin. That does imply all sinful people are to be killed. That would mean Islam says I should be killed too. :shocked: Avenues for repentence of sins is present.

This thread is very ridiculous and half of the contributors are purely Islamophobic who choose to attack the religion in every thread dealing with Islam. alchemize, 0roo0roo, yolner, Astaroth33 are amongst the fiercest Islamophic people in this forum. Add Neos to that list. I wouldnt be surprised to find Astaroth33 contributing his inflammatory posts pretty soon.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Sultan
I wouldnt be surprised to find Astaroth33 contributing his inflammatory posts pretty soon.

One thread over:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...9520&enterthread=y

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Sultan
I wouldnt be surprised to find Astaroth33 contributing his inflammatory posts pretty soon.

One thread over:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...9520&enterthread=y

thank you for proving my point

 

[Adn4n]

I grew up in a country with a predominant muslim population, Bosnia and Herzegovina. Though I am an Atheist, I am perfectly familiar with the Quran. I also grew up in a Catholic community in Germany, and went to a Catholic school. When comparing the two, I cannot say that Islam is the more aggressive. Take it from me, a real muslim will never do anything to you. Those terrorists may believe what they are doing is right, and it may be - we cannot know, but they are influenced by others; take the 71 virgins lie for example. Islam is a religion of peace, and your comparison to the KKK is an insult to my family. Take a moment and think about your own religion, and the bad groups it contains.

 

[sandorski]

Neos: You're thinking just like the Terrorists think. That you are Good and They are Evil. It's easy to damn a whole Group for the acts of the Few, but by doing so you damn yourself by joining the ranks of the Few.

 

[Kibbo]

and when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

Deuteronomy 20:13, King James version.

Which is the religion of peace again?

 

[Neos]

Originally posted by: Sultan

This thread is very ridiculous and half of the contributors are purely Islamophobic who choose to attack the religion in every thread dealing with Islam. alchemize, 0roo0roo, yolner, Astaroth33 are amongst the fiercest Islamophic people in this forum. Add Neos to that list. I wouldnt be surprised to find Astaroth33 contributing his inflammatory posts pretty soon.

May seem ridiculous to you - but millions go to bed each night in fear - because Islam is in thier midst. That is what I get (my perception, please) from many sources. In the Muslim/Arab world women and girls are regarded as little more than cattle - and I get that from CNN - of all places!

This country - in calling itself civilized - has become weak. God forbid that we should offend! We fight an enemy that has no qualms about killing any in thier path - yet we play it selective and cautious when we go out to battle. Heck - ABC is watching!

Maybe I am wrong - but until the Arab / Islamic / Muslim community at large rise up and condemn what thier own is doing and has done in the name of Allah - I find it hard to trust.

 

[Neos]

I can see right now that I will have to add the Qran and other Muslim literature to my list - but my prior statement stands.

"...until the Arab / Islamic / Muslim community at large rise up and condemn what thier own is doing and has done in the name of Allah - I find it hard to trust. "

Will this happen? For some reason I doubt it.

 

[Neos]

Originally posted by: Kibbo

and when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

Deuteronomy 20:13, King James version.

Which is the religion of peace again?

Different time, different place - different reasons! Do I expect you to know that ...no, I don't.

 

[Neos]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Neos: You're thinking just like the Terrorists think. That you are Good and They are Evil. It's easy to damn a whole Group for the acts of the Few, but by doing so you damn yourself by joining the ranks of the Few.

My friend - I am far from good.

Again.

" ....until the Arab / Islamic / Muslim community at large rise up and condemn what thier own is doing and has done in the name of Allah - I find it hard to trust. "

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Neos

Originally posted by: Sultan

This thread is very ridiculous and half of the contributors are purely Islamophobic who choose to attack the religion in every thread dealing with Islam. alchemize, 0roo0roo, yolner, Astaroth33 are amongst the fiercest Islamophic people in this forum. Add Neos to that list. I wouldnt be surprised to find Astaroth33 contributing his inflammatory posts pretty soon.

May seem ridiculous to you - but millions go to bed each night in fear - because Islam is in thier midst. That is what I get (my perception, please) from many sources. In the Muslim/Arab world women and girls are regarded as little more than cattle - and I get that from CNN - of all places!

This country - in calling itself civilized - has become weak. God forbid that we should offend! We fight an enemy that has no qualms about killing any in thier path - yet we play it selective and cautious when we go out to battle. Heck - ABC is watching!

Maybe I am wrong - but until the Arab / Islamic / Muslim community at large rise up and condemn what thier own is doing and has done in the name of Allah - I find it hard to trust.

Ridiculous. :roll:

 

[Dedpuhl]

There is a website I go to that was created by a former Muslim. The site is faithfreedom.org. In the site, the author makes claims that Islam is not a true religion and that Muhammad was:

a rapist
a pedophile
an assassin
a mass murderer
a lecher
a misogynist
a narcissist
a looter
a mentally disturbed (man)

The author even makes a challenge for anyone to debate the accusations. If someone is successful, the site will be removed.

It's an interesting read from the perspective of someone that left Islam.


[edit] I used "disprove" when I should've used "debate."

 

[cyberserf]

Neos, go back to the cave that you crawled out from, you freak! add this fool to the complete ignorant list!

 

[Neos]

Originally posted by: Neos

Maybe I am wrong - but until the Arab / Islamic / Muslim community at large rise up and condemn what thier own is doing and has done in the name of Allah - I find it hard to trust.

Ridiculous. :roll:[/quote]

Even the last statement above?

 

[Kibbo]

Originally posted by: Neos

Originally posted by: Kibbo

and when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

Deuteronomy 20:13, King James version.

Which is the religion of peace again?

Different time, different place - different reasons! Do I expect you to know that ...no, I don't.

You should expect me to know that, otherwise you would be patronizing me, and I'll assume you weren't trying to do that.

My quote was merely a refutation of those who would pick obscure elements of Islam and use them to indict the modern religion.

Maybe I am wrong - but until the Arab / Islamic / Muslim community at large rise up and condemn what thier own is doing and has done in the name of Allah - I find it hard to trust.

Honestly, this is a reasonably expectation. If you find what Muslim leaders in the NA, Europe and even some in the ME say, this would be given to you. Thing is, the terrorist leaders have a knack for provoking harsh military action from non-muslims, enough to rally thier own support in the region. You'd almost think that was their plan from the beginning. Imagine a group evil enough to bring destruction on thier own people, merely to paint the destructors as aggressors. But, nahh, I can't beleive that terrorists could be that evil.

 

[Neos]

Originally posted by: cyberserf
Neos, go back to the cave that you crawled out from, you freak! add this fool to the complete ignorant list!

Did you see the below post from above - oh, most learned one?

There is a website I go to that was created by a former Muslim. The site is faithfreedom.org. In the site, the author makes claims that Islam is not a true religion and that Muhammad was:

a rapist
a pedophile
an assassin
a mass murderer
a lecher
a misogynist
a narcissist
a looter
a mentally disturbed (man)

The author even makes a challenge for anyone to disprove the accusations. If someone is successful, the site will be removed.

Might be a way for you to make money! Go for it!

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Neos

Originally posted by: sandorski
Neos: You're thinking just like the Terrorists think. That you are Good and They are Evil. It's easy to damn a whole Group for the acts of the Few, but by doing so you damn yourself by joining the ranks of the Few.

My friend - I am far from good.

Again.

" ....until the Arab / Islamic / Muslim community at large rise up and condemn what thier own is doing and has done in the name of Allah - I find it hard to trust. "

Actually the leaders condem it. What do you want them to do? Come over and personally say something? They have all condemed it and if you don't see it then you are blinded by hate. I am a Muslim I condem the acts. Happy? "rolls eyes"

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Neos

Originally posted by: Neos

Maybe I am wrong - but until the Arab / Islamic / Muslim community at large rise up and condemn what thier own is doing and has done in the name of Allah - I find it hard to trust.

Ridiculous. :roll:

Even the last statement above?

[/quote]

Many have. The problem with your tirade is that you are talking just like the Terrorists. You want to think that you are simply not being Politically Correct, unfortunetly you have gone to an opposite extreme, an extreme whose only result is Genocide.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Neos

Originally posted by: cyberserf
Neos, go back to the cave that you crawled out from, you freak! add this fool to the complete ignorant list!

Did you see the below post from above - oh, most learned one?

There is a website I go to that was created by a former Muslim. The site is faithfreedom.org. In the site, the author makes claims that Islam is not a true religion and that Muhammad was:

a rapist
a pedophile
an assassin
a mass murderer
a lecher
a misogynist
a narcissist
a looter
a mentally disturbed (man)

The author even makes a challenge for anyone to disprove the accusations. If someone is successful, the site will be removed.

Might be a way for you to make money! Go for it!

The author is a fellow Muslims? Last I checked he was just a man with a former religion and not a history scolar.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Neos

Originally posted by: cyberserf
Neos, go back to the cave that you crawled out from, you freak! add this fool to the complete ignorant list!

Did you see the below post from above - oh, most learned one?

There is a website I go to that was created by a former Muslim. The site is faithfreedom.org. In the site, the author makes claims that Islam is not a true religion and that Muhammad was:

a rapist
a pedophile
an assassin
a mass murderer
a lecher
a misogynist
a narcissist
a looter
a mentally disturbed (man)

The author even makes a challenge for anyone to disprove the accusations. If someone is successful, the site will be removed.

Might be a way for you to make money! Go for it!

This is also ridiculous. He's making the accusation, he needs to Prove it.

 

[Dedpuhl]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Neos

Originally posted by: cyberserf
Neos, go back to the cave that you crawled out from, you freak! add this fool to the complete ignorant list!

Did you see the below post from above - oh, most learned one?

There is a website I go to that was created by a former Muslim. The site is faithfreedom.org. In the site, the author makes claims that Islam is not a true religion and that Muhammad was:

a rapist
a pedophile
an assassin
a mass murderer
a lecher
a misogynist
a narcissist
a looter
a mentally disturbed (man)

The author even makes a challenge for anyone to disprove the accusations. If someone is successful, the site will be removed.

Might be a way for you to make money! Go for it!

The author is a fellow Muslims? Last I checked he was just a man with a former religion and not a history scolar.

He claims to be an apostate...

 

[Dedpuhl]

This is also ridiculous. He's making the accusation, he needs to Prove it.

AFAIK, he made the site, many M00slims became angry, so he offered a way for them to counter his accusations.

 

[theshazman]

I didn't read all the posts in this thread...but Islam IS a peaceful religion. Those that kill in the name of Islam are murderers and not real followers of the faith. If you see all the killing in Iraq and Sudan, it basically muslims killing each other. Until muslims in this world begin to follow the religion for real and not use it for whatever purpose, the world will not see Islam for the beautiful and peaceful religion it really is. The muslims are mostly responsible for negative images of Islam in the west, if they want the world to know Islam, then they need to practice it not exploit it.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl

This is also ridiculous. He's making the accusation, he needs to Prove it.

AFAIK, he made the site, many M00slims became angry, so he offered a way for them to counter his accusations.

There are no facts for the information he posted. Can you prove to me Jesus was not mentally ill? Can you prove to me Noah's Arc actually happend? You cannot.

He makes nice accusations. He must have been really close to Mohammad.

Jesus masturbated 5x a day. prove me wrong.
God never gave Jesus life after he died - prove me wrong
Jesus didn't die nailed to a cross - prove me wrong (debate time!)

I can go on and on.. can you 100% prove me wrong? NO.