Israel ending draft exemption for ultra-Orthodox and Arab Israelis

[Texashiker]

ultra-Orthodox and Arab Israelis are usually exempt from serving in the military.

The question I have, why is israel going to end the exemption? I suspect israel wants as many soldiers as it can get before the war with iran starts.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/...120801/israel-ending-draft-exemption-ultra-or

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Maybe Mitt had some influence while overseas?

 

[mk]

It might also ease tensions between the minorities and the rest of the population when the whole age group is forced to learn to work together.

 

[JTsyo]

Everyone should do their share. There are many roles other than combat soldier.

 

[crashtestdummy]

ultra-Orthodox and Arab Israelis are usually exempt from serving in the military.

The question I have, why is israel going to end the exemption? I suspect israel wants as many soldiers as it can get before the war with iran starts.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/...120801/israel-ending-draft-exemption-ultra-or

The exception was initially meant so that a few scholars from the Haredi community could avoid being drafted in order to study the talmud uninterrupted. In reality, almost all Haredi men apply for the exception.

In addition to all that, the Haredim are not economically self-sufficient, and thus get a lot of government aid.

So you have a minority population that benefits more strongly then the rest of the population, but lacks the obligation of military service. You can probably see why this was unpopular for the other 92% of the population that is not ultra-orthodox.

 

[SamurAchzar]

There's a huge rift in the Israeli society about what's going on with the Haredim. They are are a leeching money and benefits, giving nothing in return and being hostile towards the majority. It has nothing to do with Iran or any security concerns, it's just that normal Israelis have had enough of their money sucked dry and their sons serving in the military while the Haredim get exempt.

The Haredim, on their hand, would hear nothing of getting drafted; the Rabbis in their leadership don't want to expose their youth to outside influences, lest they - heavens forbid - become open to outside influences and step out of the religious dark ages.

The American equivalent would be drafting the Amish.

Anyway, regardless of these stories, it's very unlikely that the Haredim will get drafted due to their substantial political power and Nethanyahu caving in to their demands to keep his government intact.

 

[Texashiker]

So you have a minority population that benefits more strongly then the rest of the population, but lacks the obligation of military service. You can probably see why this was unpopular for the other 92% of the population that is not ultra-orthodox.

Over the past year or so I have seen several articles about the rising tensions in israel between everyday jews and the ultra-Orthodox.

There was one article about members of the ultra-Orthodox community spitting on a girl as she was walking to school. According to the article, the girl was not dressed modestly enough.

If I remember right, ultra-Orthodox have some of the highest poverty rates in israel, so they receive a good bit of government aid.

 

[SamurAchzar]

They have the highest poverty and the highest birth rate, by far: ~6.5 children per family, on average, as of 2009.

 

[Sonikku]

The problem with a draft is that you risk losing the job creators of tomorrow by forcing children from families with high values into serving. War is the domain of the disposables like it was during the civil war. Make EVERYBODY serve and the cost of war is simply far too high to be worth waging in the first place. :/

 

[Texashiker]

The problem with a draft is that you risk losing the job creators of tomorrow by forcing children from families with high values into serving. War is the domain of the disposables like it was during the civil war. Make EVERYBODY serve and the cost of war is simply far too high to be worth waging in the first place. :/

You what we need?

The U.S. needs to crap bombed out of it so that kind of mindset will go away.

Nobody is disposable.

Back in the early 1990s there was worry about congress bringing back the draft. A news person was interviewing some college students. One of the students said to send the people who will never make anything out of themselves to war.

You send all of your garbage men, mechanics, laborers to war, who will pick up your garbage, fix your cars or build your homes?

Society is not only built by the job creates, but also the people who do the work.

 

[CrackRabbit]

You what we need?

The U.S. needs to crap bombed out of it so that kind of mindset will go away.

Nobody is disposable.

That, my friend, is where you are wrong.
Everyone is disposable, it is just a matter of how disposable you are.

 

[techs]

No one, especially Mitt Romney, seems to remember that the Palestinians were the Jews of the Middle East. They were the doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc who worked in Egypt, Syria, etc and were looked down by the people of those countries and resented for their success before Israel became a state.

 

[QuantumPion]

No one, especially Mitt Romney, seems to remember that the Palestinians were the Jews of the Middle East. They were the doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc who worked in Egypt, Syria, etc and were looked down by the people of those countries and resented for their success before Israel became a state.

edit - nevermind, I think I misinterpreted your post.

The term "palestinian" did used to refer to the Jews living in Transjordan before Israel became a state.

 

[QuantumPion]

The problem with a draft is that you risk losing the job creators of tomorrow by forcing children from families with high values into serving. War is the domain of the disposables like it was during the civil war. Make EVERYBODY serve and the cost of war is simply far too high to be worth waging in the first place. :/

We're talking about Israel here, not the U.S.. Israel has a draft in case they get invaded simultaneously by 5 hostile neighboring countries, which has happened multiple times in the past. They don't have a high enough population to have a only-volunteer army large enough to defend themselves.

 

[WelshBloke]

Would the military actually want them?

They sound like they would make terrible soldiers.

 

[QuantumPion]

Would the military actually want them?

They sound like they would make terrible soldiers.

Not everyone in the army is a solider. The more non-soldier jobs you fill up with these guys, the more regular citizens you can free up to be actual combat troops I guess.

 

[techs]

edit - nevermind, I think I misinterpreted your post.

The term "palestinian" did used to refer to the Jews living in Transjordan before Israel became a state.

In this case I am using it to mean arab Palestinians.
Which I thought was somewhat apparent since Jews were not allowed to work in many professions in the Middle East.

 

[WelshBloke]

Not everyone in the army is a solider. The more non-soldier jobs you fill up with these guys, the more regular citizens you can free up to be actual combat troops I guess.

I suppose, but they don't sound like the type of guys to accept the chain of command.

 

[Sonikku]

We're talking about Israel here, not the U.S.. Israel has a draft in case they get invaded simultaneously by 5 hostile neighboring countries, which has happened multiple times in the past. They don't have a high enough population to have a only-volunteer army large enough to defend themselves.

Well, obviously. I said a draft can work, it just needs an opt out for the job creators and their future job creating children. They are the future of tomorrow and tomorrow will be the poorer for their loss if they go to war and die. I merely used the civil war as an example for this effective model.

Obviously if you let everybody opt out it's not really a draft. :thumbsdown:

You what we need?

The U.S. needs to crap bombed out of it so that kind of mindset will go away.

I'm not quite sure what you just said, but I think you may have a case for suing your your English teacher.

 

[Anarchist420]

Any govt that conscripts people is a govt not worth fighting for.

 

[Howard]

Any govt that conscripts people is a govt not worth fighting for.

That won't help you if you get drafted.

 

[Anarchist420]

That won't help you if you get drafted.

Do you honestly think that I wouldn't just choose to go to jail?

 

[Howard]

Do you honestly think that I wouldn't just choose to go to jail?

It doesn't matter what you do. I'm just saying that believing something like that doesn't help you when it comes to the draft.

 

[techs]

The problem is that the ultra orthodox don't accept Israels right to exist.
They believe that according to the Jewish faith the Jews can only have a state of Israel when the Messiah returns. Therefore many of them don't believe in Israel.

 

[Texashiker]

I'm not quite sure what you just said,

I said, only elitist and idiots think people are disposable.