***Israel Planning Tactical Nuclear Attack***

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Tab
I would hope that if Israel did attack Iran unprovoked, the rest of the world would tell Israel it's alone on this one.

One might argue that Iran's arming and funding of Israel's biggest enemies might be considered provocation enough. After all, those same parties love to leverage our support of Israel as provocation enough for their terrorist attacks on our citizens.

Throw in the fact that the fanatical religious leaders in Iran consistently call for the complete destruction of Israel and you'd be hard-pressed to call any move by Israel "unprovoked"...

It's hard to ignore these truths, but a lot of you do so anyways... why is that?

 

[RichardE]

Kind of pathetic the hate for Israel on the boards. A country who is developing nuclear weapons (which they had admitted to doing) and who wants to destroy Israel (which they have admitted to doing) is more favored over a nation that has always been the defender. Will you all go "good they deserved it" when Israel goes up in a mushroom cloud so that we can keep the oil lanes open?

 

[Aimster]

I think in time China will take Taiwan and there is nothing we can do about it.
China will soon have a fleet or aircraft carriers. It is just a matter of when.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: Aimster
http://www.theodora.com/maps/new8/middle_east.jpg

Israel is too far.

Syria has always detected Israel aircraft. They will alert Iran. Syria's problem is they have never been able to take one out.

What about through Jordan or Saudi Arabia?
Jordan doesn't have much of a military.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: dahunan
And we would be responsible for the oil problems

Growing evidence and we can't do anything about it you do realize that the only thing we can do in Iraq is fight a ground war.. YOU READY FOR THAT?

If we are the agressor then we will also be seen as the vilain - too bad

We won't be the agressor, Iran will be IF they respond to an Israeli attack by attacking us.

Will we come out and condemn the attack or support it..

What happens when Iran launches missiles on tel-aviv and start flying jets to attack Israel will Israel need any help whatsoever and will they ask us for that help?

Israel won't need any help stopping Iranian fighters or missiles.
Sure *few* missiles might enter...Israel has "Arrow II missile defense system" and "PAC-3's"

 

[Jhhnn]

"Kind of pathetic the hate for Israel on the boards. A country who is developing nuclear weapons (which they had admitted to doing) and who wants to destroy Israel (which they have admitted to doing) is more favored over a nation that has always been the defender. Will you all go "good they deserved it" when Israel goes up in a mushroom cloud so that we can keep the oil lanes open?"

Magnificent repetition of Lies... Developing nuclear weapons? Any evidence? Admission of such? Links?

Probably not... nobody's holding their brath, that's for sure....

Israel has always been the defender? What a load of horseshit. They initiated hostilities in 1947, 1956, 1967 (pre-emptive war, remember?), then again when they invaded Lebanon in 1982, again in 2006... Oh, yeh, and there was the attack on the Iraqi Osirak reactor in 1981. Probably a couple I left out... It's amazing what people will believe when they want to, so very desperately.

Destroy Israel? Amazing how an intentional mis-translation gets so much mileage. They want to destroy the apartheid govt of Israel. They want regime change in Israel, the same thing we want in Iran... I figure we're even on that score.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
"Kind of pathetic the hate for Israel on the boards. A country who is developing nuclear weapons (which they had admitted to doing) and who wants to destroy Israel (which they have admitted to doing) is more favored over a nation that has always been the defender. Will you all go "good they deserved it" when Israel goes up in a mushroom cloud so that we can keep the oil lanes open?"

Magnificent repetition of Lies... Developing nuclear weapons? Any evidence? Admission of such? Links?

Probably not... nobody's holding their brath, that's for sure....

Israel has always been the defender? What a load of horseshit. They initiated hostilities in 1947, 1956, 1967 (pre-emptive war, remember?), then again when they invaded Lebanon in 1982, again in 2006... Oh, yeh, and there was the attack on the Iraqi Osirak reactor in 1981. Probably a couple I left out... It's amazing what people will believe when they want to, so very desperately.

Destroy Israel? Amazing how an intentional mis-translation gets so much mileage. They want to destroy the apartheid govt of Israel. They want regime change in Israel, the same thing we want in Iran... I figure we're even on that score.

Keep spinning it any way you want too. We have many Israel threads on the forums and I have given an answer for every one of those wars and the reactor. In the end Israel was responding to an attack to its survival. You can sit back and smile and chuckle to yourself when Israel is attacked because individuals such as yourself were too sure in themselves of "oh the leader who doesn't want Israel in the middle east and wants to wipe it off the map who is developing nuclear weapons really just has peaceful intentions". I know, appeasement, it always works, besides, its just the jews.

 

[Jhhnn]

No linkage, RichardE? Didn't think so...

Just the usual Zionist dodge, and a nifty smear wrt to Jews, as well, attempting to play on the collective American guilt trip wrt to the holocaust... It's the only reason we support the Israelis, anyway- if they were anybody but Jews, they'd have been condemned and cut loose long ago.

The only appeasement going on at the present time is appeasement of the Israelis and the 800lb gorilla, the Bush Admin, by the Europeans and the Security Council... Maybe they'll figure out that won't work with far-right militarists, but I'm not betting on it...

 

[fornax]

Originally posted by: RichardE
Kind of pathetic the hate for Israel on the boards. A country who is developing nuclear weapons (which they had admitted to doing) and who wants to destroy Israel (which they have admitted to doing) is more favored over a nation that has always been the defender. Will you all go "good they deserved it" when Israel goes up in a mushroom cloud so that we can keep the oil lanes open?

Another candidate for the dumbest post. Iran has admitted developing nuclear weapons? Are you just a brainless twit, or you enjoy the attention? Israel always the defender? Do you believe in Flat Earth too?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
"BTW: there is growing evidence that Iran is VERY involved in the Iraq insurgency. The more this evidence grows the more likely we are to allow Israel to take action against Iran or for us to take action ourselves."

Growing evidence? Cite some- you know, from a source other than the Whitehouse...

Just for fun I searched "Iranian iraq" on Google news and found the following, none of which are from the White House:
link

The news that American forces had captured Iranians in Iraq was widely reported last month, but less well known is that the Iranians were carrying documents that offered Americans insight into Iranian activities in Iraq.

An American intelligence official said the new material, which has been authenticated within the intelligence community, confirms "that Iran is working closely with both the Shiite militias and Sunni Jihadist groups."

link

A British official has said five Iranians arrested in Baghdad last month in a raid by U.S. forces were senior intelligence officers thought to be on a covert mission to influence the Iraqi government, the BBC reported.
Several Iranians -- including two diplomats who were later released -- were arrested by U.S. troops in the raid, which the BBC said occurred on Dec. 21 in the compound of SCIRI head Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, one of Iraq's most powerful Shi'ite leaders.

link

Reuters - Iran has sharply increased its efforts to fan sectarian violence in Iraq in recent months, easily transferring money and arms across the Iraqi border, an opponent of the Tehran government said on Friday.

Alireza Jafarzadeh, who accurately disclosed key details about Iran's nuclear program in 2002, gave names, locations and logistics he said were associated with Iranian operations in neighboring Iraq, which includes providing roadside bombs that have killed U.S. forces.

link

IRAN: A Shi'ite theocracy pushing ahead with nuclear research. It raises the question: Should Israel or the United States bomb Iran's nuclear facilities and risk an all-out Middle East war -- or potentially let the country go nuclear?

As part of a regional strategy to spread its influence, the Iranian government is supplying weapons and expertise to fellow Shi'ites in Iraq -- now running death squads -- and in Lebanon, where they threaten neighboring Israel and the U.S.-backed government in Beirut.

When Bush gives his speech and reveals his 'new' policy it will be interesting if any of this comes up.
It is obvious that Iran is meddling in Iraqi affairs, the only question is how much meddling are they doing.

 

[M00T]

Too many friggn war lovers. I hope you all rot in nuclear winter.

 

[Jhhnn]

How lame, ProfJohn- you linked re-writes of the usual Whitehouse sponsored agitprop... Anonymous American and British officials doing their job spreading it around... more of the same from Iranian dissidents, ala Chalabi's INC, Picked up and rebroadcast as if it were gospel by the so-called Liberal Press.

The whole song and dance would be humorous, if it weren't quite so dangerous, and if there weren't people dying. We actually invaded Iraq on false pretenses, then cry like little princesses when it doesn't come down to flowers in the streets, about how the Iranians are "meddling"... using the same sort of "evidence" offered up about Iraq....

Uhh- WAAAH!

The Bush Admin stepped right in their own ******, and now try to claim it's somebody else's...

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
No linkage, RichardE? Didn't think so...

Just the usual Zionist dodge, and a nifty smear wrt to Jews, as well, attempting to play on the collective American guilt trip wrt to the holocaust... It's the only reason we support the Israelis, anyway- if they were anybody but Jews, they'd have been condemned and cut loose long ago.

The only appeasement going on at the present time is appeasement of the Israelis and the 800lb gorilla, the Bush Admin, by the Europeans and the Security Council... Maybe they'll figure out that won't work with far-right militarists, but I'm not betting on it...

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3348748,00.html

"We oppose obtaining nuclear weapons and we will peacefully use nuclear technology under the framework of the Nonproliferation Treaty, but if we are threatened, the situation may change," He told a news conference after two days of talks in Beijing.

http://www.iran-press-service.com/ips/a...-2006/iran_nuclear_rohani_23206_.shtml

PARIS, 23 Feb. (IPS) As the international nuclear watchdog is revealing new Iranian hidden projects to develop possibly nuclear weapons, the former senior atomic negotiator Iran could develop nuclear weapon and master full nuclear cycle, but because of ?regrettable mistakes we have none of them?.
===========
Analyst could not understand why the damaging acknowledgments were publicized at a time that Iran?s case at the IAEA is about to be referred to the United Nations Security Council, as large excerpts of the meeting was published by the Germany-based Iran-Emrooz website in Farsi on 21 February 2006.
==============
?When we started thinking to acquire nuclear technologies back 15-16 years ago, we already were thinking full nuclear cycle. We tried to get it (the nuclear technology) from many country and considering the general international situation, we were looking more towards China and the Soviet Union, but no nation accepted to give us that technology?, explaining: ?that?s the reason why we turned to the black market, middle men and international networks from one particular nation, which we never named but they (IAEA) concluded it is Pakistan?.
================
?We still need a little bit of time. Once in full control of the nuclear cycle, we can have everything, but we don?t want the bomb. Then the world would change its attitude towards us, accepting the fait accompli. We would enter the Atomic Club?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/05/wiran05.xml

He told his audience: "When we were negotiating with the Europeans in Teheran we were still installing some of the equipment at the Isfahan site. There was plenty of work to be done to complete the site and finish the work there. In reality, by creating a tame situation, we could finish Isfahan."

============

he Iranians' biggest setback came when Libya secretly negotiated with America and Britain to close down its nuclear operations. Mr Rowhani said that Iran had bought much of its nuclear-related equipment from "the same dealer" - a reference to the network of A Q Khan, the rogue Pakistani atomic scientist. From information supplied by Libya, it became clear that Iran had bought P2 advanced centrifuges.

===================

Mohammad Mohaddessin, the NCRI's foreign affairs chief, told the Sunday Telegraph: "Rowhani's remarks show that the mullahs wanted to deceive the international community from the onset of negotiations with EU3 - and that the mullahs were fully aware that if they were transparent, the regime's nuclear file would be referred to the UN immediately."

You can keep ignoring it if you wish. I mean, we were told NK was not developing Nuclear Weapons, we were told Pakistan was not developing nuclear weapons. Put your head in the sand some more if you wish, perhaps Israel is the only nation with the balls to deal with this country. If they want Nuclear Power, they need a regime change that is not bent on destroying a nation and a race.

 

[Aimster]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?...&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull


'An effective attack on Iran should have been yesterday'

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
We actually invaded Iraq on false pretenses, then cry like little princesses when it doesn't come down to flowers in the streets, about how the Iranians are "meddling"

What's that? Never heard of Google image search?
Here are some flowers for you.

Destroy Israel? Amazing how an intentional mis-translation gets so much mileage. They want to destroy the apartheid govt of Israel. They want regime change in Israel, the same thing we want in Iran... I figure we're even on that score.

.... and Jihad is about inner struggle :laugh:
You are indeed the definition of a useful idiot.

Apartheid, eh?
I guess that's just you agitproping......

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Tab
I would hope that if Israel did attack Iran unprovoked, the rest of the world would tell Israel it's alone on this one.

One might argue that Iran's arming and funding of Israel's biggest enemies might be considered provocation enough. After all, those same parties love to leverage our support of Israel as provocation enough for their terrorist attacks on our citizens.

Throw in the fact that the fanatical religious leaders in Iran consistently call for the complete destruction of Israel and you'd be hard-pressed to call any move by Israel "unprovoked"...

It's hard to ignore these truths, but a lot of you do so anyways... why is that?

Yes, one could argue that. I don't think you'll disagree with me that Iran has supported groups that mean to do harm agaisnt Isreali. Many Iranian's have said some very negative things about Isreali. The thing is though Iran has been supporting these groups for years and actions are stronger than words. There are much more effective ways of dealing with small terrorist groups and nasty words by certain Iranians. If Isreali started a war with Iran simply because they've been supported some rather ethically questionable groups and said some nasty things - the rest of the world would not be behind Isreali, it's a really poor justificaton.

I don't think I am ignoring any "truths", but I do think many need to know that the situation in Isreali isn't exactly black and white as it's made out to be. If Isreali does start a war with Iran I would perfer that the United States stay neutral in the conflict.

 

[Jhhnn]

You're desperate, RichardE.

Attacking the Iranians' nuclear facilities is just the kind of pressure that your first link is talking about, and the third a reprint of the second, with commentary from the leadership of a US financed anti- Iranian govt terrorist organization.

The simple truth is that the Iranians are entitled to develop a full nuclear cycle under the auspices of the NPT and the supervision of the IAEA. Even though they went to the black market to obtain some of the technology, that just shows how effective US pressure has been at preventing them from having what is rightfully theirs in the first place.

Obviously, having a full nuclear cycle would allow them to build nuclear weapons, but that simply won't happen as long the current IAEA inspection cycle is in place. The smart thing to do is to make sure that the inspectors stay to make sure that the Iranian program is what they represent it to be. Attacking the Iranian facilities certainly won't accomplish that end.

The rest is the usual hysteria from the Israeli lobby and the Neocons. Other than mere accusations from the Bush Admin there is no evidence that the DPRK program was anything other than suspended between 1994 and their announced resumption of it. The Pakistani situation and program was obvious, once the Indians had detonated their own devices... A no-brainer, particularly considering that their facilities are not under IAEA supervision. Of course, neither are the Israeli facilities, either...

And this bit of self-righteousness-

"If they want Nuclear Power, they need a regime change that is not bent on destroying a nation and a race. "

The same could be said wrt to the Israelis and their treatment of the Palestinians, except that Israel engages in more than words... perhaps you'd care to explain the subtle conceptual differences between "Jewish State" and "Aryan Nation" so as to clarify the moral underpinnings of Israel...

Edit- missed your ad hom as I was composing this post, dna- that's all you've got, the last refuge of the morally and intellectually bankrupt- name calling? Useful Idiot? The only useful idiots I've encountered recently have swallowed the Israeli lobby's usual song and dance- hook, line, and sinker. It's the most amazing example of "wag the dog" in the history of the human race...

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
You're desperate, RichardE.

Heh -- one of your typcial statements.

The same could be said wrt to the Israelis and their treatment of the Palestinians, except that Israel engages in more than words... perhaps you'd care to explain the subtle conceptual differences between "Jewish State" and "Aryan Nation" so as to clarify the moral underpinnings of Israel...

Your argument might be worth the bits wasted if the Palestinan population was actually declining, but I know you don't worry yourself with such details.
Also, you seem to be obessed with everything Nazi.

Edit- missed your ad hom as I was composing this post, dna- that's all you've got, the last refuge of the morally and intellectually bankrupt- name calling? Useful Idiot?

Ad hom? I think not.
You asked for flowers, and I gave you some; you just don't want to address the fact that the majority of Iraqis did want Saddam out -- you're simply one of those who uses the violence that ensued for your own agitprop purposes, while ignoring who are the perptrators

As for Iran embarking on a "noble" task of regime change in Israel, well, that's just as laughable as your apartheid comment. I'll be glad to read your explanationg as to how Israel practicing apartheid.

In case you didn't know, useful idiot is a valid term, and properly used, if I may say so myself

 

[KurskKnyaz]

"Israel is not a global military power. They have better tech than their neighbors, but they are using the same equipment."


No, Israel has plenty of things that the US does not. Like that wonderful Merkava, for example.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: KurskKnyaz
"Israel is not a global military power. They have better tech than their neighbors, but they are using the same equipment."


No, Israel has plenty of things that the US does not. Like that wonderful Merkava, for example.

duh.....tell me about it...hehee

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
All I can say is good luck Israel, to do unto our killers what we are too cowardly to do ourselves.

You never fail to show how abysmally shallow your understanding of the world is.

Iran must never be allowed to complete their nuclear program as we allowed North Korea to do.

Now that your fearless Jackass in Chief has squandered our military to the point where we couldn't do anything about Iran or North Korea if we had to, it's a bit hypocritical to piss and moan about how "cowardly" we are.

FWIW, if all Israel is doing is drawing up contingincy plans, nations do that all the time with no expectation of having to implement them. That includes the U.S. Considering the direct threats Iran has made publicly, planning on that level isn't unreasonable. I only looked at the article briefly, and I didn't see anything that suggested they were going to attack Iran.

Israel has lost a lot of its own credibility because their not so excellent adventure into Lebanon was so poorly planned and executed, and along with their lies, the Bushwhackos shafted us in Iraq for the exactly same reason, and sadly on a much larger, more deadly and more devastating scale. :frown:

clueless as usual

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: RichardE
Israel is doing what it needs to do to survive. Iran should not be allowed to have Nuclear weapons. If the people of Iran want Nuclear power they should get rid of the extremists and get some pro-western leaders who will have the support of the majority of the nuclear powers in the world. Or even a leader who does not make death threats to entire nations as he sits there stating that his nuclear energy program is innocent in nature.

Sometimes, you need to step in and stop the person before he can go ahead and carry out his plans, be it destroying a people, or wiping a nation off the face of the earth. We learned this lessons once in the 1940's. Hopefully we learned our lesson than and can deal with this issue. Before it escalates.

exactly!!

 

[KurskKnyaz]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

I don?t think Israel is in a position to do anything to Iran, unless the Israelis leaders have a death wish because the numbers from CIA fact book greatly favor Iran. And, IMHO, Israel military advance isn?t enough to offset the shear Iranian population number, oil independent, large GDP, and very low public debt.

It looks like Israel have to learn to play nice to its neighbors, because the US having more than enough trouble in Afghanistan & Iraq to meddle with rest of the ME countries.

Israel:
Land -- 20,770 sq km
Population -- 6,352,117
GDP -- $156.9 billion (2005 est.)
Public debt -- 99.7% of GDP (2005 est.)
Oil production -- 2,740 bbl/day (2003 est.)
Oil consumption -- 270,100 bbl/day (2003 est.)
Manpower available for military service -- males age 17-49: 1,492,125, females age 17-49: 1,443,916 (2005 est.)
Manpower fit for military service -- males age 17-49: 1,255,902, females age 17-49: 1,212,394 (2005 est.)
Military expenditures % of GDP -- 7.7% (2005 est.)

Iran:
Land -- 1.648 million sq km
Population -- 68,688,433 (July 2006 est.)
GDP -- $569.9 billion (2005 est.)
Public debt -- 28.9% of GDP (2005 est.)
Oil ? production -- 3.979 million bbl/day (2005 est.)
Oil ? consumption -- 1.425 million bbl/day (2003 est.)
Manpower available for military service -- males age 18-49: 18,319,545, females age 18-49: 17,541,037 (2005 est.)
Manpower fit for military service -- males age 18-49: 15,665,725, females age 18-49: 15,005,597 (2005 est.)
Military expenditures % of GDP -- 3.3% (2003 est.)

If you google some info on Arab-Israeli wars you will see that numbers don't matter.

 

[KurskKnyaz]

"The same could be said wrt to the Israelis and their treatment of the Palestinians,"

Yeah, they suck. They keep offering the Palestinians a state that the Palestinians don't want.

"except that Israel engages in more than words... perhaps you'd care to explain the subtle conceptual differences between "Jewish State" and "Aryan Nation" so as to clarify the moral underpinnings of Israel..."


Hey, if you have an Aryan nation that is a democracy and treats its citizens equally then whats the big deal?

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: KurskKnyaz

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

I don?t think Israel is in a position to do anything to Iran, unless the Israelis leaders have a death wish because the numbers from CIA fact book greatly favor Iran. And, IMHO, Israel military advance isn?t enough to offset the shear Iranian population number, oil independent, large GDP, and very low public debt.

It looks like Israel have to learn to play nice to its neighbors, because the US having more than enough trouble in Afghanistan & Iraq to meddle with rest of the ME countries.

Israel:
Land -- 20,770 sq km
Population -- 6,352,117
GDP -- $156.9 billion (2005 est.)
Public debt -- 99.7% of GDP (2005 est.)
Oil production -- 2,740 bbl/day (2003 est.)
Oil consumption -- 270,100 bbl/day (2003 est.)
Manpower available for military service -- males age 17-49: 1,492,125, females age 17-49: 1,443,916 (2005 est.)
Manpower fit for military service -- males age 17-49: 1,255,902, females age 17-49: 1,212,394 (2005 est.)
Military expenditures % of GDP -- 7.7% (2005 est.)

Iran:
Land -- 1.648 million sq km
Population -- 68,688,433 (July 2006 est.)
GDP -- $569.9 billion (2005 est.)
Public debt -- 28.9% of GDP (2005 est.)
Oil ? production -- 3.979 million bbl/day (2005 est.)
Oil ? consumption -- 1.425 million bbl/day (2003 est.)
Manpower available for military service -- males age 18-49: 18,319,545, females age 18-49: 17,541,037 (2005 est.)
Manpower fit for military service -- males age 18-49: 15,665,725, females age 18-49: 15,005,597 (2005 est.)
Military expenditures % of GDP -- 3.3% (2003 est.)

If you google some info on Arab-Israeli wars you will see that numbers don't matter.

Hezbullah gave them a run for their money in the summer.