Israel practicing Eugenics?

[JEDIYoda]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/nationa...re-given-birth-control-shots.premium-1.496519

To prevent the likes of Lemon Law to post this first i'm posting it.

It is a disgusting story and i have no excuse for it what so ever.

It is one of the things that just leaves me utterly sad and disappointed.

My friend I am just as saddened as you are.
I am deeply disappointed!!
My country is playing right into the hands of those who compare us to the Nazi`s....this is try a sad day!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Don't let that daft twat derail the thread.

This thread deals with ONE specific issue and it has nothing to do with the US what so ever.

So let's concentrate on this ONE thing, i wish it wasn't true but i know it to be and i'm sad to say that there are a lot of good people who had information about it but were not entirely sure and thus didn't speak out.

That Israel practiced Eugenics are words i have a hard time writing and words that i don't even understand myself, not really...

I had such high hopes for Israel and now... BAM, it's ALL gone, every single shred of it is just gone.

That the nation that was supposed to be our homeland effectively sterilized Ethiopian Jews because they didn't want them to procreate and thus practiced the same eugenics that our ancestors fled from...

I just hope to god that this is some sort of lie that got spread and not real.. if there are women claiming this there will be evidence and if it's found that this happened, there is no excuse for this.

As a Jew I hang my head and pray this is not true....

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

If true, this absolutely, 100% is eugenics. Period.

I give a lot of credit to John for posting this.

This is REALLY hard for me because it made me feel like a traitor and for my kind that is the worst thing you can be.

I knew it was presented though and i didn't want Lemon Law to bring this up first, if we're going to own up to this topic we must own it ourselves, we must acknowledge it and we must NEVER defend it.

It cannot be defended, it was wrong and i have discussed this before i posted it, i was greeted with answers such as "so what, do we need more of them" among people i called friends, some of them who already knew...

If i had known, i would have stopped it. I'm a long way from home and i really didn't need this, but this way i own this and Lemon and the likes of him don't.

I already condemned it with the harshest words i can think of.

 

[klinc]

Sterilization doesn't make them less HIV positive, it just keeps them from procreating, it's effectively eugenics, the end of the spread of "the unwanteds".

I've been to your homelands. Your neighbours are to blame for a lot of it as does foreign interests that prop up the various governments that are just a tad better than the extremists that run the rebellions.

We can't help you, we really can't, i wish we could but we can't. In Congo it's a different story in Uganda it was a different story, in Somalia we can't train anyone or help anyone, every time we tried they turned on the civilian population.

Won't it stop them from spreading HIV? Africa have something like 22000 tribes. Its easy to run from country to country. Unfortunately if anything happens in a community they will blame any foreigner and kangaroo courts is used. You are not allowed to steal, rape, murder or do anything wrong in your own community. If you do it in some other community they don't care.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Won't it stop them from spreading HIV? Africa have something like 22000 tribes. Its easy to run from country to country. Unfortunately if anything happens in a community they will blame any foreigner and kangaroo courts is used. You are not allowed to steal, rape, murder or do anything wrong in your own community. If you do it in some other community they don't care.

why are you deflecting from the Op`s original post??

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

This is actually an act of genocide, as that term was defined by the UN post-Holocaust:

any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

This is a dark day for Israel, and if this is true, I can find no moral or ethical excuse for these actions.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

As a Jew I hang my head and pray this is not true....

It's like taking a sledge hammer to the gut...

I'm not a praying man. I want this out in the open, every last bit of it, i want those responsible tried and the entire issue investigated up to the man who first gave the order...

I have some confirmation on this. i'm a long way from home but i'm trying to find out from the people i know and thus far... everyone knows, no one cares..

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Won't it stop them from spreading HIV? Africa have something like 22000 tribes. Its easy to run from country to country. Unfortunately if anything happens in a community they will blame any foreigner and kangaroo courts is used. You are not allowed to steal, rape, murder or do anything wrong in your own community. If you do it in some other community they don't care.

How does sterilization prevent or even slow the spread of HIV (other than through the long-term extinction of the entire population)?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Won't it stop them from spreading HIV? Africa have something like 22000 tribes. Its easy to run from country to country. Unfortunately if anything happens in a community they will blame any foreigner and kangaroo courts is used. You are not allowed to steal, rape, murder or do anything wrong in your own community. If you do it in some other community they don't care.

I already explained this, no piss off forever.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

My friend I am just as saddened as you are.
I am deeply disappointed!!
My country is playing right into the hands of those who compare us to the Nazi`s....this is try a sad day!!

I honestly don't know what to say... i just feel sick as hell about it, everywhere i turn i get confirmation of it and most just justify it by not liking non white jews.. i NEVER saw this when i was in Israel but apparently it's deeply rooted because i get this response from people in Tel Aviv as well as in the Settlements.

We can't fix it, all we can do is see it play out before our eyes... at the same time, i wouldn't want to stop an investigation either, no nation can progress without removing the bad elements within it.

It's what i hope for.

 

[Whiskey16]

John, thank you, for that article.

No excuse. In sad irony, the State of Israel has gone with implementing many sordid and bigoted practices that past states were sanctioned and indicted for their infliction against Jews.

A strong right-wing -- even fascist -- portion in Israel has succeeded in implementing criminal policies.

As long as Israel retains at least a portion of a free and investigative press and public, there is hope in curtailing and then reversing the long slide Israel has taken toward the dark depths of past states and entities who barbarically acted against specified targets as Jews...

 

[Lemon law]

I found a better and more complete link than JOS posted.

http://www.jpost.com/Health/Article.aspx?id=301273

And while I share some of the same shame and disgust against any nation that practices Eugenics, I can now say the Israeli health ministry has now taken a strong stand against the practice.

As we can somewhat cite the entire history of the Jim Crow South as similar. As Many Southern Doctors cheerfully allowed their black patients to be used as human Gianna pigs in syfallis studies. As almost every nation on earth that have rouge groups that discriminate in all kinds of ingenious ways in the dark.

As JOS discoverers, Israel has its own share of bigots.

 

[Zebo]

Short term contraception is not sterilization or ethnic cleansing imo but looks really bad and racist. This is sad I hope they change course immediately. I agree with Israel and Jewish right to self defense but this is straight up racism since they dont depro poor native jewish women.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

This is actually an act of genocide, as that term was defined by the UN post-Holocaust:



This is a dark day for Israel, and if this is true, I can find no moral or ethical excuse for these actions.

This is the ONLY day i won't defend the actions of Israel, no man, woman or child who had ancestors (in my case my grandmorthers and fathers, all four of them, two of which raised me) who lived through the eugenics perpetrated by their enemies can muster a defense for this.

Try them for genocide. It suits their purpose and if the day comes, i would testify against them with what i learned in one afternoon.

It's like waking up in bizarro world where everyone knew but me, every fucking one...

This has to do with race alone, nothing else.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Short term contraception is not sterilization or ethnic cleansing imo but looks really bad and racist. This is sad I hope they change course immediately. I agree with Israel and Jewish right to self defense but this is straight up racism since they dont depro poor native jewish women.

It's Eugenics. The prevention of the spread of a particular race and it may qualify as a genocide according to Don's link.

I had not even considered that and i'm usually the one to consider international laws first..

Just goes to show that i'm too close to the issue... i really really really want these people in my grasp, lined up three rows so i don't have to waste bullets on them.

I trusted them SO much that i dismissed every indication.. they made me out to be the fool.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I found a better and more complete link than JOS posted.

http://www.jpost.com/Health/Article.aspx?id=301273

Okay, in that link I don't see any admission of wrongdoing, and lots of claims that the program was purely voluntary.

So which is it?

 

[Oyeve]

Okay, in that link I don't see any admission of wrongdoing, and lots of claims that the program was purely voluntary.

So which is it?

Thats because they are probably going to cover it up. I hope this news spreads to non-jew owned sources.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I found a better and more complete link than JOS posted.

http://www.jpost.com/Health/Article.aspx?id=301273

And while I share some of the same shame and disgust against any nation that practices Eugenics, I can now say the Israeli health ministry has now taken a strong stand against the practice.

As we can somewhat cite the entire history of the Jim Crow South as similar. As Many Southern Doctors cheerfully allowed their black patients to be used as human Gianna pigs in syfallis studies. As almost every nation on earth that have rouge groups that discriminate in all kinds of ingenious ways in the dark.

As JOS discoverers, Israel has its own share of bigots.

I own this topic, your words mean nothing to me or anyone else and as usual, you divert and obfuscate.

If it was up to me, i'd want the International court of law to launch an investigation and charge those responsible for this, top to bottom.

It may not seem like it at times but remember that i started out as a UN soldier and i have NEVER even once spoken out against the peace keepers or the courts (it's just that things like the HRC is an outright joke).

 

[OlafSicky]

We would all hope that Israel is an enlightened country because of it's past experiences, but it is a closed society and outsiders don't have it that good. There have been many incidents against Russian Jews and the mistreatment of Ethiopian Jews which are one of the oldest if not the oldest Jewish communities in the world.
Israel has also been singled out as having the worst refugee camp conditions in the world by humanitarian watch organization.
Here is an interesting link
http://www.irinnews.org/report/94819/ISRAEL-The-tribulations-of-being-an-Ethiopian-Jew

 

[Zebo]

I found a better and more complete link than JOS posted.

http://www.jpost.com/Health/Article.aspx?id=301273

And while I share some of the same shame and disgust against any nation that practices Eugenics, I can now say the Israeli health ministry has now taken a strong stand against the practice.

As we can somewhat cite the entire history of the Jim Crow South as similar. As Many Southern Doctors cheerfully allowed their black patients to be used as human Gianna pigs in syfallis studies. As almost every nation on earth that have rouge groups that discriminate in all kinds of ingenious ways in the dark.

As JOS discoverers, Israel has its own share of bigots.

Thank goodness they stopped it. lets hope it was some racist fool abusing power and not the general sentiment and policy of Israel.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Okay, in that link I don't see any admission of wrongdoing, and lots of claims that the program was purely voluntary.

So which is it?

It was volountary in the sense that they could only enter if they agreed to the shot and no one told them that the shot was a contraceptive.

Even if they had it would still be eugenics.

Even if they had only offered it volountarily with no strings attached to a sub group of the population it would still be eugenics.

But as it is, they offered a shot in exchange for entrance and they didn't tell them what it was.

This is confirmed via various sources, some of which have left Israel for the US since this story was leaked.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

This link to Ha'aretz works.

It seems the Israeli government is not admitting doing this against the women's will, just that the injections were given as a routine matter. There are allegations they were given without consent, and also without clearly telling the women what they were for.

We'll have to wait to get to the bottom of this to determine if the people involved were "merely" behaving in a grossly unethical manner, or if they were engaged in a deliberate program to reduce the birth rate of this group.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

We would all hope that Israel is an enlightened country because of it's past experiences, but it is a closed society and outsiders don't have it that good. There have been many incidents against Russian Jews and the mistreatment of Ethiopian Jews which are one of the oldest if not the oldest Jewish communities in the world.
Israel has also been singled out as having the worst refugee camp conditions in the world by humanitarian watch organization.
Here is an interesting link
http://www.irinnews.org/report/94819/ISRAEL-The-tribulations-of-being-an-Ethiopian-Jew

This isn't true at all, the Syrian and Lebanese camps are MUCH worse and ONLY the refugee camps in Palestinian controlled areas are bad and they are bad because the Palestinians don't consider them human, they have been saying that even if Palestine is a realisation those Palestinians in those camps would NEVER become Palestinians in a Palsestinian state.

If you thought you were going to "stick it to the Jews" using my thread i have news for you, son, i'm Jewish and you can't pull that sheit in my thread without me tearing you a new arsehole.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

But as it is, they offered a shot in exchange for entrance and they didn't tell them what it was.

This is confirmed via various sources, some of which have left Israel for the US since this story was leaked.

Can you give me those sources? I'd like to understand what really happened here. I already know there's a civil rights organization in Israel that has some of the women claiming they were injected against their will, but of course, anyone can make accusations about anything.

 

[Oyeve]

This isn't true at all, the Syrian and Lebanese camps are MUCH worse and ONLY the refugee camps in Palestinian controlled areas are bad and they are bad because the Palestinians don't consider them human, they have been saying that even if Palestine is a realisation those Palestinians in those camps would NEVER become Palestinians in a Palsestinian state.

If you thought you were going to "stick it to the Jews" using my thread i have news for you, son, i'm Jewish and you can't pull that sheit in my thread without me tearing you a new arsehole.

Just because somewhere else is worse makes what isreal does better?