Israel warns: free soldier or PM dies

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Thera
Originally posted by: daniel49
there is no government in the world that has been dealing with arab terrorists as long as Isreal.

They simply understand what it takes to deal with these people.
Something the United States and Europe have no stomach for.
You can see how well our ideas of appeasement have worked In Palestine.

Yeah, they certainly know how to "deal" with them. 50 years later and they still haven't figured it out.

Idiot.

Don't tell GI Job that.. Murder is the only way to change someones point of view.. and if you kill a few innocents in the process then the more the merrier

Sometimes innocents need to die to make changes, thinking anything else is naive.



Sounds like you are speaking from the Palestinian Perspective
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Thera
Originally posted by: daniel49
there is no government in the world that has been dealing with arab terrorists as long as Isreal.

They simply understand what it takes to deal with these people.
Something the United States and Europe have no stomach for.
You can see how well our ideas of appeasement have worked In Palestine.

Yeah, they certainly know how to "deal" with them. 50 years later and they still haven't figured it out.

Idiot.

Don't tell GI Job that.. Murder is the only way to change someones point of view.. and if you kill a few innocents in the process then the more the merrier

Sometimes innocents need to die to make changes, thinking anything else is naive.



Sounds like you are speaking from the Palestinian Perspective

No, though that is what is used. Though, there is a difference. If you can constructively build on the deaths of innocents, than you have a reason.

Take Israel destroying Building A

In building a, we have 200 innocent people, and 7 terrorists.

Those 7 terrorist within the next 2 weeks will carry out attacks that might kill 600 people, and cause more unrest between the two nations.

So Israel destroys the building.

Since both acts would cause unrest, they cancel each other out, yet in the attack to save 600 innocent people they killed 200 innocent people.

Now, a palestinian terrorist kills 10 innocent people in retaliation for something that happened. In this case, nothing productive save revenge comes from this. So in this case, it is wrong for the innocent people to die.

Maybe I am cold hearted, but there is logic to way I think
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Your thinking is fine.. probably not efficient and will not work.. They kill those 7 terrorists and 200 innocents.. then thy just created about 50 more terrorists AND THEY KNOW THAT

You kill my family while you are trying to kill my neighbor-- guess what? What do you think I will do about it.. learn how to fit my cock you know where on myself? NO.. I will do what I can to see your brains on the pavement.. doesn't that also seem logical?

There is a site that keeps he body count for Israel and Paalestinians conflict.. The numbers were like 5:1 dead palestinians to dead Israelis..
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
Your thinking is fine.. probably not efficient and will not work.. They kill those 7 terrorists and 200 innocents.. then thy just created about 50 more terrorists AND THEY KNOW THAT

You kill my family while you are trying to kill my neighbor-- guess what? What do you think I will do about it.. learn how to fit my cock you know where on myself? NO.. I will do what I can to see your brains on the pavement.. doesn't that also seem logical?

There is a site that keeps he body count for Israel and Paalestinians conflict.. The numbers were like 5:1 dead palestinians to dead Israelis..

Exactly. They keep killing to save there own citizens. The fact the numbers are so one sided shows the idea is working.

One thing you need to keep in mind, if Palestine stoped attacking, Israel would not have to attack.
 

linkgoron

Platinum Member
Mar 9, 2005
2,395
969
136
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Thera
Originally posted by: daniel49
there is no government in the world that has been dealing with arab terrorists as long as Isreal.

They simply understand what it takes to deal with these people.
Something the United States and Europe have no stomach for.
You can see how well our ideas of appeasement have worked In Palestine.

Yeah, they certainly know how to "deal" with them. 50 years later and they still haven't figured it out.

Idiot.

Don't tell GI Job that.. Murder is the only way to change someones point of view.. and if you kill a few innocents in the process then the more the merrier

Sometimes innocents need to die to make changes, thinking anything else is naive.



Sounds like you are speaking from the Palestinian Perspective

No, though that is what is used. Though, there is a difference. If you can constructively build on the deaths of innocents, than you have a reason.

Take Israel destroying Building A

In building a, we have 200 innocent people, and 7 terrorists.

Those 7 terrorist within the next 2 weeks will carry out attacks that might kill 600 people, and cause more unrest between the two nations.

So Israel destroys the building.

Since both acts would cause unrest, they cancel each other out, yet in the attack to save 600 innocent people they killed 200 innocent people.

Now, a palestinian terrorist kills 10 innocent people in retaliation for something that happened. In this case, nothing productive save revenge comes from this. So in this case, it is wrong for the innocent people to die.

Maybe I am cold hearted, but there is logic to way I think

When did Israel ever destroy a building for 7 terrorists, and killed off another 200 people? They try to kill only terrorists, and are mostly succesful, ****** happens (innocents near the targets) but Israel tries to do its best not to kill innocent people.

Killing off another 200 wouldn't go off quietly, even when "only" 3 innocent people get killed with the terrorist (I believe this was what happened last time) then people in Israel get pissed.

Originally posted by: dahunan
There is a site that keeps he body count for Israel and Paalestinians conflict.. The numbers were like 5:1 dead palestinians to dead Israelis..

And? What's your point?
Israel is much more powerful than the Palestinians, better armed, better organized... Most of the fighting is in Palestinian terrirtory...
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: linkgoron
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Thera
Originally posted by: daniel49
there is no government in the world that has been dealing with arab terrorists as long as Isreal.

They simply understand what it takes to deal with these people.
Something the United States and Europe have no stomach for.
You can see how well our ideas of appeasement have worked In Palestine.

Yeah, they certainly know how to "deal" with them. 50 years later and they still haven't figured it out.

Idiot.

Don't tell GI Job that.. Murder is the only way to change someones point of view.. and if you kill a few innocents in the process then the more the merrier

Sometimes innocents need to die to make changes, thinking anything else is naive.



Sounds like you are speaking from the Palestinian Perspective

No, though that is what is used. Though, there is a difference. If you can constructively build on the deaths of innocents, than you have a reason.

Take Israel destroying Building A

In building a, we have 200 innocent people, and 7 terrorists.

Those 7 terrorist within the next 2 weeks will carry out attacks that might kill 600 people, and cause more unrest between the two nations.

So Israel destroys the building.

Since both acts would cause unrest, they cancel each other out, yet in the attack to save 600 innocent people they killed 200 innocent people.

Now, a palestinian terrorist kills 10 innocent people in retaliation for something that happened. In this case, nothing productive save revenge comes from this. So in this case, it is wrong for the innocent people to die.

Maybe I am cold hearted, but there is logic to way I think

When did Israel ever destroy a building for 7 terrorists, and killed off another 200 people? They try to kill only terrorists, and are mostly succesful, ****** happens (innocents near the targets) but Israel tries to do its best not to kill innocent people.

Killing off another 200 wouldn't go off quietly, even when "only" 3 innocent people get killed with the terrorist (I believe this was what happened last time) then people in Israel get pissed.

Originally posted by: dahunan
There is a site that keeps he body count for Israel and Paalestinians conflict.. The numbers were like 5:1 dead palestinians to dead Israelis..

And? What's your point?
Israel is much more powerful than the Palestinians, better armed, better organized... Most of the fighting is in Palestinian terrirtory...

Umm..

the reason I said for example...was because I was creating an example for a point.
 

MegaWorks

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
3,819
1
0
To answer your question dahunan, I found this article as to why the US supports Israel over the last years. I know it's long but I find it very interesting!

There are two views. One view cites the power and influence of
the Israeli lobby. The other view argues that Israel is America's policeman in the Middle East.

Why the U.S. Supports Israel - Foreign Policy In Focus
By Stephen Zunes

In the United States and around the world, many are questioning why,
despite some mild rebukes, Washington has maintained its large-scale
military, financial, and diplomatic support for the Israeli occupation
in the face of unprecedented violations of international law and human
rights standards by Israeli occupation forces. Why is there such strong
bipartisan support for Israel's right-wing prime minister Ariel
Sharon's policies in the occupied Palestinian territories?

The close relationship between the U.S. and Israel has been one of the
most salient features in U.S. foreign policy for nearly three and a
half decades. The well over $3 billion in military and economic aid
sent annually to Israel by Washington is rarely questioned in Congress,
even by liberals who normally challenge U.S. aid to governments that
engage in widespread violations of human rights--or by conservatives
who usually oppose foreign aid in general. Virtually all Western
countries share the United States' strong support for Israel's
legitimate right to exist in peace and security, yet these same nations
have refused to provide arms and aid while the occupation of lands
seized in the 1967 war continues. None come close to offering the level
of diplomatic support provided by Washington--with the United States
often standing alone with Israel at the United Nations and other
international forums when objections are raised over ongoing Israeli
violations of international law and related concerns.

Although U.S. backing of successive Israeli governments, like most
foreign policy decisions, is often rationalized on moral grounds, there
is little evidence that moral imperatives play more of a determining
role in guiding U.S. policy in the Middle East than in any other part
of the world. Most Americans do share a moral commitment to Israel's
survival as a Jewish state, but this would not account for the level of
financial, military, and diplomatic support provided. American aid to
Israel goes well beyond protecting Israel's security needs within its
internationally recognized borders. U.S. assistance includes support
for policies in militarily occupied territories that often violate well
established legal and ethical standards of international behavior.

Were Israel's security interests paramount in the eyes of American
policymakers, U.S. aid to Israel would have been highest in the early
years of the existence of the Jewish state, when its democratic
institutions were strongest and its strategic situation most
vulnerable, and would have declined as its military power grew
dramatically and its repression against Palestinians in the occupied
territories increased. Instead, the trend has been in just the opposite
direction: major U.S. military and economic aid did not begin until
after the 1967 war. Indeed, 99% of U.S. military assistance to Israel
since its establishment came only after Israel proved itself to be far
stronger than any combination of Arab armies and after Israeli
occupation forces became the rulers of a large Palestinian population.

Similarly, U.S. aid to Israel is higher now than twenty-five years ago.
This was at a time when Egypt's massive and well-equipped armed forces
threatened war; today, Israel has a longstanding peace treaty with
Egypt and a large demilitarized and internationally monitored buffer
zone keeping its army at a distance. At that time, Syria's military was
expanding rapidly with advanced Soviet weaponry; today, Syria has made
clear its willingness to live in peace with Israel in return for the
occupied Golan Heights--and Syria's military capabilities have been
declining, weakened by the collapse of its Soviet patron.

Also in the mid-1970s, Jordan still claimed the West Bank and stationed
large numbers of troops along its lengthy border and the demarcation
line with Israel; today, Jordan has signed a peace treaty and has
established fully normalized relations. At that time, Iraq was
embarking upon its vast program of militarization. Iraq's armed forces
have since been devastated as a result of the Gulf War and subsequent
international sanctions and monitoring. This raises serious questions
as to why U.S. aid has either remained steady or actually increased
each year since.

In the hypothetical event that all U.S. aid to Israel were immediately
cut off, it would be many years before Israel would be under
significantly greater military threat than it is today. Israel has both
a major domestic arms industry and an existing military force far more
capable and powerful than any conceivable combination of opposing
forces. There would be no question of Israel's survival being at risk
militarily in the foreseeable future. When Israel was less dominant
militarily, there was no such consensus for U.S. backing of Israel.
Though the recent escalation of terrorist attacks inside Israel has
raised widespread concerns about the safety of the Israeli public, the
vast majority of U.S. military aid has no correlation to
counterterrorism efforts.

In short, the growing U.S. support for the Israeli government, like
U.S. support for allies elsewhere in the world, is not motivated
primarily by objective security needs or a strong moral commitment to
the country. Rather, as elsewhere, U.S. foreign policy is motivated
primarily to advance its own perceived strategic interests.

Strategic Reasons for Continuing U.S. Support

There is a broad bipartisan consensus among policymakers that Israel
has advanced U.S. interest in the Middle East and beyond.

Israel has successfully prevented victories by radical nationalist
movements in Lebanon and Jordan, as well as in Palestine.

Israel has kept Syria, for many years an ally of the Soviet Union, in
check.

Israel's air force is predominant throughout the region.
Israel's frequent wars have provided battlefield testing for American
arms, often against Soviet weapons.

It has served as a conduit for U.S. arms to regimes and movements too
unpopular in the United States for openly granting direct military
assistance, such as apartheid South Africa, the Islamic Republic in
Iran, the military junta in Guatemala, and the Nicaraguan Contras.

Israeli military advisers have assisted the Contras, the Salvadoran
junta, and foreign occupation forces in Namibia and Western Sahara.
Israel's intelligence service has assisted the U.S. in intelligence
gathering and covert operations.

Israel has missiles capable of reaching as far as the former Soviet
Union, it possesses a nuclear arsenal of hundreds of weapons, and it
has cooperated with the U.S. military-industrial complex with research
and development for new jet fighters and anti-missile defense systems.

U.S. Aid Increases as Israel Grows Stronger

The pattern of U.S. aid to Israel is revealing. Immediately following
Israel's spectacular victory in the 1967 war, when it demonstrated its
military superiority in the region, U.S. aid shot up by 450%. Part of
this increase, according to the New York Times, was apparently related
to Israel's willingness to provide the U.S. with examples of new Soviet
weapons captured during the war. Following the 1970-71 civil war in
Jordan, when Israel's potential to curb revolutionary movements outside
its borders became apparent, U.S. aid increased another sevenfold.

After attacking Arab armies in the 1973 war were successfully countered
by the largest U.S. airlift in history, with Israel demonstrating its
power to defeat surprisingly strong Soviet-supplied forces, military
aid increased by another 800%. These increases paralleled the British
decision to withdraw its forces from "east of the Suez," which also led
to the massive arms sales and logistical cooperation with the Shah's
Iran, a key component of the Nixon Doctrine.

Aid quadrupled again in 1979 soon after the fall of the Shah, the
election of the right-wing Likud government, and the ratification of
the Camp David Treaty, which included provisions for increased military
assistance that made it more of a tripartite military pact than a
traditional peace agreement. (It is noteworthy that the additional aid
provided to Israel in the treaty continued despite the Begin
government's refusal to abide by provisions relating to Palestinian
autonomy.) Aid increased yet again soon after the 1982 Israeli invasion
of Lebanon. In 1983 and 1984, when the United States and Israel signed
memoranda of understanding on strategic cooperation and military
planning and conducted their first joint naval and air military
exercises, Israel was rewarded by an additional $1.5 billion in
economic aid. It also received another half million dollars for the
development of a new jet fighter.

During and immediately after the Gulf War, U.S. aid increased an
additional $650 million. When Israel dramatically increased its
repression in the occupied territories--including incursions into
autonomous Palestinian territories provided in treaties guaranteed by
the U.S. government--U.S. aid increased still further and shot up again
following the September 11 terrorist attacks against the United States.

The correlation is clear: the stronger and more willing to cooperate
with U.S. interests that Israel becomes, the stronger the support.

Ensuring Israel's Military Superiority

Therefore, the continued high levels of U.S. aid to Israel comes not
out of concern for Israel's survival, but as a result of the U.S.
desire for Israel to continue its political dominance of the
Palestinians and its military dominance of the region. Indeed, leaders
of both American political parties have called not for the U.S. to help
maintain a military balance between Israel and its neighbors, but for
insuring Israeli military superiority.

Since the terrorist attacks against the United States on September 11,
there has again been some internal debate regarding how far the United
States should back Israeli policies, now under the control of right
wing political leader Ariel Sharon. Some of the more pragmatic
conservatives from the senior Bush administration, such as Secretary of
State Colin Powell, have cautioned that unconditional backing of
Sharon's government during a period of unprecedented repression in the
occupied territories would make it more difficult to get the full
cooperation of Arab governments in prosecuting the campaign against
terrorist cells affiliated with the al Qaeda network. Some of the more
right-wing elements, such as Paul Wolfowitz of the Defense Department,
have been arguing that Sharon was an indispensable ally in the war
against terrorism and that the Palestinian resistance was essentially
part of an international terrorist conspiracy against democratic
societies.

Other Contributing Factors

Support for Israel's ongoing occupation and repression is not unlike
U.S. support for Indonesia's 24-year occupation of and repression in
East Timor or Morocco's ongoing occupation of and repression in Western
Sahara. If seen to be in the strategic interests of the United States,
Washington is quite willing to support the most flagrant violation of
international law and human rights by its allies and block the United
Nations or any other party from challenging it. No ethnic lobby or
ideological affinity is necessary to motivate policymakers to do
otherwise. As long as the amoral imperatives of realpolitik remain
unchallenged, U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East and elsewhere will
not reflect the American public's longstanding belief that U.S.
international relations should be guided by humanitarian principles and
ethics.

Some of the worst cases of U.S. support for repression have not
remained unchallenged, leading to reversals in U.S. policy on Vietnam,
Central America, South Africa, and East Timor. In these cases, grass
roots movements supportive of peace and justice grew to a point where
liberal members of Congress, in the media and elsewhere, joined in the
call to stop U.S. complicity in the repression. In other cases, such as
U.S. support for Morocco's invasion and occupation of Western Sahara,
too few Americans are even aware of the situation to mount a serious
challenge, so it remains off the radar screen of lawmakers and pundits.

The case of Israel and Palestine is different, however. There are
significant sectors of the population that question U.S. policy, yet
there is a widespread consensus among elite sectors of government and
the media in support of U.S. backing of the Israeli occupation. Indeed,
many of the same liberal Democrats in Congress who supported
progressive movements on other foreign policy issues agree with
President George W. Bush--or, in some cases, are even further to the
right--on the issue of Israel and Palestine. Therefore, while the
perceived strategic imperative is at the root of U.S. support for
Israel, there are additional factors that have made this issue more
difficult for peace and human rights activists than most others. These
include the following:

The sentimental attachment many liberals--particularly among the post
war generation in leadership positions in government and the media-
have for Israel. Many Americans identify with Israel's internal
democracy, progressive social institutions (such as the kibbutzim),
relatively high level of social equality, and its important role as a
sanctuary for an oppressed minority group that spent centuries in
diaspora. Through a mixture of guilt regarding Western anti-Semitism,
personal friendships with Jewish Americans who identify strongly with
Israel, and fear of inadvertently encouraging anti-Semitism by
criticizing Israel, there is enormous reluctance to acknowledge the
seriousness of Israeli violations of human rights and international
law.

The Christian Right, with tens of millions of followers and a major
base of support for the Republican Party, has thrown its immense media
and political clout in support for Ariel Sharon and other right-wing
Israeli leaders. Based in part on a messianic theology that sees the
ingathering of Jews to the Holy Land as a precursor for the second
coming of Christ, the battle between Israelis and Palestinians is, in
their eyes, simply a continuation of the battle between the Israelites
and the Philistines, with God in the role of a cosmic real estate agent
who has deemed that the land belongs to Israel alone--secular notions
regarding international law and the right of self-determination
notwithstanding.

Mainstream and conservative Jewish organizations have mobilized
considerable lobbying resources, financial contributions from the
Jewish community, and citizen pressure on the news media and other
forums of public discourse in support of the Israeli government.

Although the role of the pro-Israel lobby is often greatly exaggerated-
with some even claiming it is the primary factor influencing U.S.
policy--its role has been important in certain tight congressional
races and in helping to create a climate of intimidation among those
who seek to moderate U.S. policy, including growing numbers of
progressive Jews.

The arms industry, which contributes five times more money to
congressional campaigns and lobbying efforts than AIPAC and other pro
Israel groups, has considerable stake in supporting massive arms
shipments to Israel and other Middle Eastern allies of the United
States. It is far easier, for example, for a member of Congress to
challenge a $60 million arms deal to Indonesia, for example, than the
more than $2 billion of arms to Israel, particularly when so many
congressional districts include factories that produce such military
hardware.

The widespread racism toward Arabs and Muslims so prevalent in American
society, often perpetuated in the media. This is compounded by the
identification many Americans have with Zionism in the Middle East as a
reflection of our own historic experience as pioneers in North America,
building a nation based upon noble, idealistic values while
simultaneously suppressing and expelling the indigenous population.

The failure of progressive movements in the United States to challenge
U.S. policy toward Israel and Palestine in an effective manner. For
many years, most mainstream peace and human rights groups avoided the
issue, not wanting to alienate many of their Jewish and other liberal
constituents supportive of the Israeli government and fearing criticism
of Israeli policies might inadvertently encourage anti-Semitism. As a
result, without any countervailing pressure, liberal members of
Congress had little incentive not to cave in to pressure from
supporters of the Israeli government. Meanwhile, many groups on the far
left and others took a stridently anti-Israel position that did not
just challenge Israeli policies but also questioned Israel's very right
to exist, severely damaging their credibility. In some cases,
particularly among the more conservative individuals and groups
critical of Israel, a latent anti-Semitism would come to the fore in
wildly exaggerated claims of Jewish economic and political power and
other statements, further alienating potential critics of U.S. policy.

Conclusion

While U.S. support for Israeli occupation policies, like U.S. support
for its allies elsewhere, is primarily based upon the country's support
for perceived U.S. security interests, there are other factors
complicating efforts by peace and human rights groups to change U.S.
policy. Despite these obstacles, the need to challenge U.S. support of
the Israeli occupation is more important than ever. Not only has it led
to enormous suffering among the Palestinians and other Arabs,
ultimately it hurts the long-term interests of both Israel and the
United States, as increasingly militant and extremist elements arise
out of the Arab and Islamic world in reaction.

Ultimately, there is no contradiction between support for Israel and
support for Palestine, for Israeli security and Palestinian rights are
not mutually exclusive but mutually dependent on each other. U.S.
support of the Israeli government has repeatedly sabotaged the efforts
of peace activists in Israel to change Israeli policy, which the late
Israeli General and Knesset member Matti Peled referred to as pushing
Israel "toward a posture of calloused intransigence." Perhaps the best
kind of support the United States can give Israel is that of "tough
love"--unconditional support for Israel's right to live in peace and
security within its internationally recognized border, but an equally
clear determination to end the occupation. This is the challenge for
those who take seriously such basic values as freedom, democracy, and
the rule of law.
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
0
0
Yeah... very fair and balanced analysis... especially this part:
"the need to challenge U.S. support of the Israeli occupation is more important than ever"

I love the language... it's so.... objective :roll:
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
0
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
WE THE PEOPLE OF AMERICA will have to pay possibly $48,000,000 to rebuild the power plant that Israel bombed.. :roll:

God LOVES Violence.. at least the God known as Jesus's Dad does (the God of the Jewish people).. Jesus's would be a little homo by todays standards
"We the people of America?"

The plant is commercially insured. How the ****** are you making that link?
 

MegaWorks

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
3,819
1
0
Originally posted by: Meuge
Yeah... very fair and balanced analysis... especially this part:
"the need to challenge U.S. support of the Israeli occupation is more important than ever"

I love the language... it's so.... objective :roll:

Meugy if you don't like it write an e-mail to Stephen Zunes. But I agree with his analysis!
 

FrancesBeansRevenge

Platinum Member
Jun 6, 2001
2,181
0
0
The Zionist movement does indeed have it's own history of using terrorism to achieve political goals.
Strangely, people hear the word Zionist and think the user is being racist... as if Zionism is a dirty accusation or something.
Zionism was simply the movement to establish a Jewish homeland... it's thier term and to use it is certainly not out of bounds.

Anyway,
Irgun and Lehi group (aka Stern Gang) both used terrorism to advance the goal of the Jewish state.

As a group that never had over a hundred members, Lehi relied on audacious but small-scale operations to bring their message home, as such they described themselves as a terrorist group and adopted the tactics of groups such as the IRA, who had successfully used guerrilla warfare to force the British out of the Southern Republic of Ireland back in the 1920s. To this end, Lehi conducted small-scale operations such as assassinations of British soldiers and police officers and, on occasion, Jewish "collaborators".

Irgun was responsible for the King David Hotel bombing in which 91 people were killed. The building was a British government base of operations and as such the reason for the targeting but nonetheless most of the dead were civilians.

I am not comparing the limited and mostly targeted terrorism of the Zionist movement to the often random targeting of innocents by the Palestinian militants. If one can make such a judgment, the Zionist campaign was 'cleaner' in nature.

But, terrorism was, without a doubt, used by some Jewish groups to advance the goal of the Jewish state.

These aren't excuses for any terrorist actions... but please let's not pretend anyone's hands are clean. And, perhaps, you can understand some of the Palestinian people falsely believing terror is an avenue to statehood when it seemed, from their point of view, to work for their arch enemies. Dangerously, perhaps fatally, misguided.

 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
14
81
www.markbetz.net
Fact is that Israel is much better at killing Palestinian civilians than the terrorists are at killng Israelis.

Why don't you present some relative numbers for deaths on either side before you spout stuff like this, k? And be sure to include the relative percentages of noncombatants killed, including women and children under 10.
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
0
0
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
But I agree with his analysis!
Yes, but you're a moron.

How smart of you! :roll:

edit: normal response from a right-wing jewish fanatic!
/shrug

I don't need to explain myself to you. Likewise, if you don't like the situation, you're free to go and fight on the Palestinian side. A few of my friends are serving in the Israeli army right now, I am sure they'll provide you with a proper welcome.
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
0
0
Originally posted by: Markbnj
Fact is that Israel is much better at killing Palestinian civilians than the terrorists are at killng Israelis.

Why don't you present some relative numbers for deaths on either side before you spout stuff like this, k? And be sure to include the relative percentages of noncombatants killed, including women and children under 10.

Well, he may be right. But the fact is that we were much better at killing Japanese civilians, then they were at killing ours. Same goes for German civilians. What I want to see, is to have these assholes apply the same logic to WWII and come out on Hitler's side. Oh wait... they might just realize that they agree with his ideas.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: Markbnj
Fact is that Israel is much better at killing Palestinian civilians than the terrorists are at killng Israelis.

Why don't you present some relative numbers for deaths on either side before you spout stuff like this, k? And be sure to include the relative percentages of noncombatants killed, including women and children under 10.

Well, he may be right. But the fact is that we were much better at killing Japanese civilians, then they were at killing ours. Same goes for German civilians. What I want to see, is to have these assholes apply the same logic to WWII and come out on Hitler's side. Oh wait... they might just realize that they agree with his ideas.

As I said earlier, killing civilians is a tragic, yet neccessary consequence of war. Palestine brought this war to Israel.

 

MegaWorks

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
3,819
1
0
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
But I agree with his analysis!
Yes, but you're a moron.

How smart of you! :roll:

edit: normal response from a right-wing jewish fanatic!
/shrug

I don't need to explain myself to you. Likewise, if you don't like the situation, you're free to go and fight on the Palestinian side. A few of my friends are serving in the Israeli army right now, I am sure they'll provide you with a proper welcome.

Why don't you enlist then? It's seems to me that you want to go and fight. Go kill those dirty monkey Arabs! Go!

To be honest it's your fvcking problem, you guys are so stupid that you can't seem to find a way out of this conflict, for how long now 60... 70 years. Keep up with your arrogants and that will add you another 300 years!
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
The Zionist movement does indeed have it's own history of using terrorism to achieve political goals.
Strangely, people hear the word Zionist and think the user is being racist... as if Zionism is a dirty accusation or something.
Zionism was simply the movement to establish a Jewish homeland... it's thier term and to use it is certainly not out of bounds.

Anyway,
Irgun and Lehi group (aka Stern Gang) both used terrorism to advance the goal of the Jewish state.

As a group that never had over a hundred members, Lehi relied on audacious but small-scale operations to bring their message home, as such they described themselves as a terrorist group and adopted the tactics of groups such as the IRA, who had successfully used guerrilla warfare to force the British out of the Southern Republic of Ireland back in the 1920s. To this end, Lehi conducted small-scale operations such as assassinations of British soldiers and police officers and, on occasion, Jewish "collaborators".

Irgun was responsible for the King David Hotel bombing in which 91 people were killed. The building was a British government base of operations and as such the reason for the targeting but nonetheless most of the dead were civilians.

I am not comparing the limited and mostly targeted terrorism of the Zionist movement to the often random targeting of innocents by the Palestinian militants. If one can make such a judgment, the Zionist campaign was 'cleaner' in nature.

But, terrorism was, without a doubt, used by some Jewish groups to advance the goal of the Jewish state.

These aren't excuses for any terrorist actions... but please let's not pretend anyone's hands are clean. And, perhaps, you can understand some of the Palestinian people falsely believing terror is an avenue to statehood when it seemed, from their point of view, to work for their arch enemies. Dangerously, perhaps fatally, misguided.


Your post will be cloaked in a secret veil as though it never existed

 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: daniel49
there is no government in the world that has been dealing with arab terrorists as long as Isreal.

They simply understand what it takes to deal with these people.
Something the United States and Europe have no stomach for.
You can see how well our ideas of appeasement have worked In Palestine.

and for some reason, it never actually gets dealt with does it, it just keeps going on.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: dahunan
WE THE PEOPLE OF AMERICA will have to pay possibly $48,000,000 to rebuild the power plant that Israel bombed.. :roll:

God LOVES Violence.. at least the God known as Jesus's Dad does (the God of the Jewish people).. Jesus's would be a little homo by todays standards
"We the people of America?"

The plant is commercially insured. How the ****** are you making that link?


Huh AGAAIN -- HUH

In July 2004, a subsidiary of Morganti Group Inc., a Connecticut-based construction company, received $48 million in political risk insurance for the 140 megawatt plant from the U.S. Overseas Private Investment Corp. (OPIC), an arm of the U.S. government that backs American business deals abroad.

 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: daniel49
there is no government in the world that has been dealing with arab terrorists as long as Isreal.

They simply understand what it takes to deal with these people.
Something the United States and Europe have no stomach for.
You can see how well our ideas of appeasement have worked In Palestine.

and for some reason, it never actually gets dealt with does it, it just keeps going on.

Terrorist tactics used against Terrorists .. Hmm.. begins to make you wonder.. who the terrorists are...
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
0
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: daniel49
there is no government in the world that has been dealing with arab terrorists as long as Isreal.

They simply understand what it takes to deal with these people.
Something the United States and Europe have no stomach for.
You can see how well our ideas of appeasement have worked In Palestine.

and for some reason, it never actually gets dealt with does it, it just keeps going on.

Terrorist tactics used against Terrorists .. Hmm.. begins to make you wonder.. who the terrorists are...
I suppose your way of dealing with terrorists is to invite them over for tea. Really, I hope all you ****** who love these people so much go over there and talk to them. Explain to them how much you support their plight, as they're cutting your throat... I am sure they'll listen.
 

morkinva

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 1999
3,656
0
71
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/733036.html

The government is losing its reason


By Haaretz Editorial

Bombing bridges that can be circumvented both by car and on foot; seizing an airport that has been in ruins for years; destroying a power station, plunging large parts of the Gaza Strip into darkness; distributing flyers suggesting that people be concerned about their fate; a menacing flight over Bashar Assad's palace; and arresting elected Hamas officials: The government wishes to convince us that all these actions are intended only to release the soldier Gilad Shalit.

But the greater the government's creativity in inventing tactics, the more it seems to reflect a loss of direction rather than an overall conception based on reason and common sense. On the face of it, Israel wishes to exert increasing pressure both on Hamas' political leadership and on the Palestinian public, in order to induce it to pressure its leadership to release the soldier. At the same time, the government claims that Syria - or at least Khaled Meshal, who is living in Syria - holds the key. If so, what is the point of pressuring the local Palestinian leadership, which did not know of the planned attack and which, when it found out, demanded that the kidnappers take good care of their victim and return him?

The tactic of pressuring civilians has been tried before, and more than once. The Lebanese, for example, are very familiar with the Israeli tactic of destroying power stations and infrastructure. Entire villages in south Lebanon have been terrorized, with the inhabitants fleeing in their thousands for Beirut. But what also happens under such extreme stress is that local divisions evaporate and a strong, united leadership is forged.

In the end, Israel was forced both to negotiate with Hezbollah and to withdraw from Lebanon. Now, the government appears to be airing out its Lebanon catalogue of tactics and implementing it, as though nothing has been learned since then. One may assume that the results will be similar this time around as well.

Israel also kidnapped people from Lebanon to serve as bargaining chips in dealings with the kidnappers of Israeli soldiers. Now, it is trying out this tactic on Hamas politicians. As the prime minister said in a closed meeting: "They want prisoners released? We'll release these detainees in exchange for Shalit." By "these detainees," he was referring to elected Hamas officials.

The prime minister is a graduate of a movement whose leaders were once exiled, only to return with their heads held high and in a stronger position than when they were deported. But he believes that with the Palestinians, things work differently.

As one who knows that all the Hamas activists deported by Yitzhak Rabin returned to leadership and command positions in the organization, Olmert should know that arresting leaders only strengthens them and their supporters. But this is not merely faulty reasoning; arresting people to use as bargaining chips is the act of a gang, not of a state.

The government was caught up too quickly in a whirlwind of prestige mixed with fatigue. It must return to its senses at once, be satisfied with the threats it has made, free the detained Hamas politicians and open negotiations. The issue is a soldier who must be brought home, not changing the face of the Middle East.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |