Israel: We Are At War

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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,031
45,271
136
TV made me cry this morning. They were following families trying to evacuate somewhere safe I guess, heading south and one of the families neighbors son had just been shot (probably to death). The father was so beside himself and the other family was trying to comfort him and at the same time saying we have to keep moving. This shit has got to stop. Heartless bastards on BOTHSIDES!.
There's been more than a few for me but the one that made me crack was a little boy dragging his older sisters corpse through the streets after she had been shot trying to collect rainwater
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,296
6,354
126
The tit for tat game has already been in motion long before Hamas came into being. You simply cherry picked a convenient starting point helpful to Israels narrative. When you kill, maim whole families, bulldoze their houses and property and bomb the hell out of them every so often, some pricks like Hamas will eventually come into being and bite back.
This is true. I don't think you should discount the fact that like any religion Islam can be perverted. My understanding of the Abrahamic religions is limited. My thinking is that Christianity modified Judaism with the replacement of an eye for an eye with turning the other cheek, and that Islam faced with the mass killing of it adherents by the godless exceeded human capacity to forgive and that a compromise was created. When confronted by evil that knows no compassion or bounds destroy it by any means possible up to the point where the evil doers ask for mercy and promise reform. Then it is the duty of a Muslim to forgive, but you only get one chance. Break your promise and you will be killed if possible. You won't get a second chance to lie. I believe that millions of Muslims do not know when to quit because of inner bitterness and lack of real faith.

For this reason I would suggest that even before Israel gave the Palestinians, or the Muslim people living there, they were already of a mind set that would propel them to reject the state of Israel at any price that that compromise was never on this types table. That is what the Jews in my opinion failed to address. They decided to piss into the wind rather than find compromise and compassion with their actual semetic brothers. Par for the course in a world full of fanatical robot dreamers.

There is no right or wrong here. Imagine being pro Palestinian or pro Israeli attached to a state, a religion, a cause, when there is only the loss of the everpresent Garden of Eden like fish seeking water, they don't know how to recognize.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,296
6,354
126
"About 50 people were arrested and 15 vehicles were towed, according to CHP Chief Ezery Beauchamp."

Good they arrested these butt holes.
So true. Nothing pisses me off more that to be late for dinner because people a million miles away are being brutally killed. I'll be fucked if they on the bridge will make me lose my appetite. They should have dumped them and their cars over the rail. Can you pass the potatoes.....
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,296
6,354
126
There's been more than a few for me but the one that made me crack was a little boy dragging his older sisters corpse through the streets after she had been shot trying to collect rainwater
I rember a time long ago and I remember very little, driving my car and collapsing in tears at the wheel when a man on the radio said it was Anne Franks birthday. Now it is happening again. I have other birthdays of lost children these days to remember.
 
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GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,157
7,651
136
very true, but you gotta start somewhere

-It'll probably end there too. My guess is these countries have essentially 0 economic ties to Israel, no politically powerful Jewish population, and no real tangible history of anti-Semitism.

As soon as the US or any of Europe try to intervene it'll be all "Anti-Israel is Anti-Semitism" and "I find it OFFENSIVE that Germany or the US would dare talk about oppression" etc etc etc.

I mean Bibi was literally on NPR this morning making a "What if the US was nice to the Nazi's during WW2" argument, my eyes almost popped out of my head I rolled them so hard. Equally interesting was his classic just-keep-talking-and-stringing-sentences-together-as-long-as-possible-to-run-out-the-clock-on-the-interview-and-flood-the-zone-with-your-own-talking-points style he employed as well. Smacked of Trumpism and how the Trump admin engaged with "hostile" interviewers.

Guess that's the playbook now.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,031
45,271
136
-It'll probably end there too. My guess is these countries have essentially 0 economic ties to Israel, no politically powerful Jewish population, and no real tangible history of anti-Semitism.

As soon as the US or any of Europe try to intervene it'll be all "Anti-Israel is Anti-Semitism" and "I find it OFFENSIVE that Germany or the US would dare talk about oppression" etc etc etc.

I mean Bibi was literally on NPR this morning making a "What if the US was nice to the Nazi's during WW2" argument, my eyes almost popped out of my head I rolled them so hard. Equally interesting was his classic just-keep-talking-and-stringing-sentences-together-as-long-as-possible-to-run-out-the-clock-on-the-interview-and-flood-the-zone-with-your-own-talking-points style he employed as well. Smacked of Trumpism and how the Trump admin engaged with "hostile" interviewers.

Guess that's the playbook now.
Very true, it's their go to play in their playbook so to speak.


Erdogan meanwhile -

"The Israeli-Palestinian war should not be evaluated with a psychology of indebtedness. I speak freely because we do not owe anything to Israel," Erdogan said at a joint news conference with Chancellor Olaf Scholz before the two leaders held private talks.

"Those who feel indebted to Israel cannot speak freely. We did not go through the Holocaust process, we don't have such situation, because our respect for humanity is different," the Turkish president said.


/impressive that Turkey keeps denying their genocide of Armenia, but that's another topic
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,105
21,228
136
Israel sure is taking a while to find this massive ISIS level worldwide threat military command base heartbeat of the enemy.

What's taking so long you fucking genocidal maniacs?
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,109
136
Exactly!! Even Iran does not want to be more involved!! Iran has basically told Hamas you are on your own!! Why? Because deep down Iran knows Israel is right!!
No, I don't think so. Iran, just recently, had the opportunity to see just how well the NATO's weapon cast offs are helping Ukraine. They have two Navy aircraft strike forces nearby. We have also moved additional AF fighters into the region. After some missile attacks on our bases in the region, Iran told the Iraqi militias they control to back down. I think we got a diplomatic message to Iran that it would be in their best interests to stop, like, if they enjoy having an intact military - or like being able to ship oil.

Anyway, the geopolitics of the area is, still, dominated by the US - we secure the trade routes for oil and other goods, we have the ability to interfere with monetary transfers. We cooperate with Israel on intelligence in the area and so on. Heck, with the recent sidebar meeting between the US and China, it appears that China realizes that participation in the world economy without access to western markets and western capital, life gets pretty hard (or they were just playing nice for show).

That leaves one thing - if the Iranian government really wanted to help the palestinians, they already would have done so by offering them safe haven. Clearly, they didn't. They recognize that the palestinian issue in Israel is one unhealing wound, and that's satisfying enough for them right now in terms of damage done to Israel. Like other Muslim countries, they throw some aid to the Gazans, but not enough for them to thrive. Charity, it appears, has its limits.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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Like other Muslim countries, they throw some aid to the Gazans, but not enough for them to thrive. Charity, it appears, has its limits.
It's only going to delay the inevitable. Not a solution by a long shot.

Hostilities/animosities need to come to a screeching halt and then maybe both sides need to WORK together to weed out Hamas. The current situation is the dumbest possible way of going about it. Whoever survives is gonna JOIN HAMAS in future to hurt Israel!
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,109
136
Israel sure is taking a while to find this massive ISIS level worldwide threat military command base heartbeat of the enemy.

What's taking so long you fucking genocidal maniacs?
Their intel clearly sucks. Fighting house to house is dangerous. Better to blow up an entire apartment building to kill one terrorist than risk Israeli lives. Pretty clear that Palestinian lives do not matter to the Israelis' one bit. But, we already knew that given they stuffed them into an open-air prison. I hope something good comes out of this tragedy, but that's hardly guarantied.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,944
5,568
136
So true. Nothing pisses me off more that to be late for dinner because people a million miles away are being brutally killed. I'll be fucked if they on the bridge will make me lose my appetite. They should have dumped them and their cars over the rail. Can you pass the potatoes.....
How many of the people stuck in that traffic jamb do you think decided to join the cause? As we all know, the best way to win supporters is to piss people off. The protesters missed a golden opportunity by not vandalizing the cars they stopped, that would have really changed some minds.
 
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amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,107
2,376
136
Seems Israel has revised their Oct 7 death toll of 1400 Israelis killed down to 1200. Which they say was due to difficulty identifying burned bodies which turned out to be Hamas militants.

200 burnt bodies of Hamas militants is a lot. Sounds like heavy Israeli firepower was used (tanks, gunships, shells). I can imagine collateral damage to be heavy, with Hamas being in close proximity to many of the Israelis they were trying to kidnap.

Which gives a lot of credence to Max Blumenthals investigation of Oct 7 (based on Israeli sources, IDF and civilians, Hebrew media) that many of the Israeli casualties/dead were caused by the IDF

Mark Regev, Israeli spokesman:

“We originally said, in the atrocious Hamas attack upon our people on October 7th, we had the number at 1,400 casualties and now we’ve revised that down to 1,200 because we understood that we’d overestimated, we made a mistake. There were actually bodies that were so badly burnt we thought they were ours, in the end apparently they were Hamas terrorists.”

(from his MSNBC interview with Mehdi Hassan)
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,126
37,413
136
Their intel clearly sucks. Fighting house to house is dangerous. Better to blow up an entire apartment building to kill one terrorist than risk Israeli lives. Pretty clear that Palestinian lives do not matter to the Israelis' one bit. But, we already knew that given they stuffed them into an open-air prison. I hope something good comes out of this tragedy, but that's hardly guarantied.

I think the longer this goes on the higher the risk to Israel that US support becomes more conditional than it has been, especially since Netanyahu is basically ignoring our requests. Public opinion in the US agrees Israel has a right to self defense but also that they don't get a free hand to obliterate the Palestinians so their numbers are starting to move in the other direction as Israel prosecutes the war with near total disregard for civilian casualties.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,628
11,342
136
200 burnt bodies of Hamas militants is a lot. Sounds like heavy Israeli firepower was used (tanks, gunships, shells).

Perhaps. Another explanation is chaos/friendly fire. Admittedly even then, 200 in one freak explosion (I was thinking of say something hitting a live natural gas supply / propane cylinder) is improbable IMO.

I haven't yet watched the videos that KMFJD posted to me yet, I'm not sure what kind of mood I'll have to be in to watch them because the idea that a nation flambé's its own people* because "they do what it takes to beat Hamas" then blames the "bad guy" for it is just a bit too fucking sickening for me to stomach right now.

* - technically unintentionally, but they've already demonstrated that they're so fucking ruthless that they'll happily bomb civilians to oblivion. As far as I'm concerned, there's a very thin line between "too stupid/ruthless" and "intentional" that it barely exists IMO.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,296
6,354
126
How many of the people stuck in that traffic jamb do you think decided to join the cause? As we all know, the best way to win supporters is to piss people off. The protesters missed a golden opportunity by not vandalizing the cars they stopped, that would have really changed some minds.
As you may know I don’t see things like most people do as a result of a strange transformative insight and a therapeutic association with someone who I felt had experienced it at a far deeper level than l. This all took place a long time ago and both from what I experienced and the deeper knowledge that was passed to me I have been aware for decades of the tragic future of Israel.

We create what we fear and if the desire of the ego is to have and live in a Jewish state and that desire is obtained but threatened, there will proceed mechanically all manner of actions by such a state that will lead to its self destruction.

And why is this? It is because attachment is ego affirming, a manifestation of pride that is a manifestation of inner self doubt and insecurity and with the rise of fear of loss their follows the feelings of hatred. And the thing that hate filled people always do is to destabilize the the sense of security of those around then creating an opposing force of hate.

And all I had to do is look at the numbers, billions against a few to know tha Israel was in for endless misery.

The path Jewish people chose to militarize a religious state would create the kind of hardened ego that will do endless evil.

This is the Karmic journey from victim to oppressor to victim that sleeping machines can’t escape.

What you wish is to sleep in peace untouched by the tragic suffering of others, and why do they suffer. They suffer because as yet so many are and wish to be unaware.

Do you know the story of the man who was sent to hell and given a chance to pick a room based on what he could hear happening on the other side of the door. In room after room he could hear the sounds of torture and terror but chose a room where all he could hear were voices calling out, “Don’t make a wave.” Once inside he found himself standing with thousands of others up to his chin in shit.

Please don’t make a wave, I need to get home for dinner.
 
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