Israel: We Are At War

[brycejones]

Why nobody asks when HAMAS will put the Palestinians interests as a first and only priority and stop the 70 years old hatred so that both Palestinians and Israelis can live peacefully ??

I don’t think anyone expects Hamas to make that move. The most effective strategy would be to create real incentives that peel away support for Hamas. The Israeli government has done the opposite for decades now. The extremists on both sides of the conflict WANT it to continue and unfortunately are in charge on both sides currently.


Remember the official policy of the Israeli government before 10/7 was to contain Gaza and just keep things from getting bad enough that it caused a humanitarian crisis in Gaza while they continue to take land in the West Bank and expand settlements there with more and more confinement of the Palestinian people there. As gross as it sounds this conflict serves the interest of the current Israeli government and they created the conditions in which it could fester. What Hamas did on 10/7 is unacceptable and wrong and had to be responded to. But the roots go back far and pretending they don’t is being dishonest.

For fun here is come context going back to 1948.

The Road to 1948, and the Roots of a Perpetual Conflict

How the decisions that led to the founding of Israel have brought unending conflict to the region.

www.nytimes.com

 

[KMFJD]

we keep failing ....

 

[MrSquished]

So they killed and pushed the Palestinians to the south in Rafah, packed them in there like sardines, and are now bombing there. Where was this great evacuation of all the Innocents?

 

[blankslate]

According to Atrocity Mongers even women and children are not innocent...
c'mon now. If the Empire allows it then it's not wrong...
amrite?

Spoiler

if you can't detect the vast amounts of facetiousness in the above words, get help

__________

 

[MrSquished]

Israel is clearly doing ethnic cleansing, along with a shit ton of war crimes and what are essentially purposeful civilian kilings, and then destroying civilian infrastructure after they capture areas, purely for their ethnic cleansing strategy.

Anybody who said myself, or others who were on the same page, were speaking too harshly about Israel when this war started should all eat their words. Israel has been as bad and worse. What an evil government and movement, those of the population that support these actions.

 

[raildogg]

The Western world, especially America and UK, are actively supporting Israel in its genocide. Without American ammo and weapons, this all ends. But US politicians are too connected to the Israeli interests so there's that. It is very shameful.

Also, the aid trucks are piled up at the Rafah crossing! Why the hell is that? It's because the Israeli protestors are blocking them from getting in. They are actively trying to starve Palestinians, along with bombing them. Seriously what is wrong with these people?!

So right now the following in happening, all with the help of the US:

• Israel is indiscriminately bombing innocent civilians and destroying all the major infrastructure, such as hospitals, schools and businesses
• Israel is preventing aid from going in despite what they say. The trucks are piled up at the Rafah crossing
• Israel is going after a UN agency that helps the Palestinians and is actively working to defund it. The US and the rest of the Western cucks are going along with this because they are cucks. That means on top of all this, the Israelis are preventing any assistance from UNRWA. This agency is a big part of Palestinian society as it provides all sorts of aid as well as education. So the Israelis are trying to make sure future generations of Palestinians will be illiterate
• Israel is going after journalists and UN staff in Gaza because they might help the Palestinian civilians, or at least report on the atrocities being committed. Despite all this, the atrocities are being seen
• Israel has destroyed countless schools and universities, including one recently where they apparently had dyanmited the building. What the hell is the purpose of this except to destroy the society?

And then you have disgusting Hillary Clinton talking about women's rights and talking about sexual violence committed by Hamas, all of which has not been proven at all. So in order to justify this genocide, one way they do it is to present horrific crimes which often times do not happen, such as mass Hamas rapes and baby beheadings. Thank you Jefferey Gettleman of the NY Times of spreading false info.

 

[raildogg]

Israel is clearly doing ethnic cleansing, along with a shit ton of war crimes and what are essentially purposeful civilian kilings, and then destroying civilian infrastructure after they capture areas, purely for their ethnic cleansing strategy.

Anybody who said myself, or others who were on the same page, were speaking too harshly about Israel when this war started should all eat their words. Israel has been as bad and worse. What an evil government and movement, those of the population that support these actions.

Israel can only do this because the Americans give them money and weapons to do so. And congress is rushing more money and weapons to Israel so Israel can commit more genocide. So that means that American leaders are talking about protecting civilians and yet giving so many weapons to a government that specifically targets civilians. All talk without any meaning. Israel has full permission of the US to commit genocide.

 

[Amol S.]

I think I have a prediction of what Biden is trying to do. Although, I am not sure if it is a good idea if my prediction is true. Is Biden just trying to put one of the biggest problems in the middle east to an end?
Basically, it all depends on what Israel does after taking over the phildadelphi corridor? Are they going to take over the West Bank as well? However, the biggest question is the following, are they going to invade Iran and take that over too?
We all know that all of NATO hates Iran, but no one is sure if Iran has nukes or not, and thus nothing can be done over Iran. Let's face the fact that the US has always repeatedly been pro-insurgency and pro-coup of Iran ever since World War 1. Maybe he just wants Israel to do all that work.

 

[KMFJD]

aid package rammed through the senate but blocked in the house

https://twitter.com/x/status/1757239224237961231

https://twitter.com/x/status/1757215718456922293

 

[darkswordsman17]

Why nobody asks when HAMAS will put the Palestinians interests as a first and only priority and stop the 70 years old hatred so that both Palestinians and Israelis can live peacefully ??

Granted I can't imagine you understanding the fallacy of your argument, that murder justifies murder. But if your argument for Israel committing genocide is that Hamas killed Israelis, I hope you realize you're giving exactly the justification for Hamas to exist. Israel has murdered faaaaaaar more Palestinians than all Palestinians, let alone Hamas, has killed Israelis. Israel was murdering Palestinians before Hamas even existed. Israel also literally helped Hamas come into existence including directly funding them even, because their intention was always to create a group that murdered some Israelis so the hard right in Israel could use that to stay in power and justify their long term genocide of Palestine and taking land they believe is theirs using specious logic based on religious zealotry.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I don’t think anyone expects Hamas to make that move. The most effective strategy would be to create real incentives that peel away support for Hamas. The Israeli government has done the opposite for decades now. The extremists on both sides of the conflict WANT it to continue and unfortunately are in charge on both sides currently.


Remember the official policy of the Israeli government before 10/7 was to contain Gaza and just keep things from getting bad enough that it caused a humanitarian crisis in Gaza while they continue to take land in the West Bank and expand settlements there with more and more confinement of the Palestinian people there. As gross as it sounds this conflict serves the interest of the current Israeli government and they created the conditions in which it could fester. What Hamas did on 10/7 is unacceptable and wrong and had to be responded to. But the roots go back far and pretending they don’t is being dishonest.

For fun here is come context going back to 1948.

The Road to 1948, and the Roots of a Perpetual Conflict

How the decisions that led to the founding of Israel have brought unending conflict to the region.

www.nytimes.com

Israel is justifying this using centuries old claims, this region was never going to know peace short of it being uninhabitable by humans. There's too much religious nuttery that traces its origins there.

Which climate change is very probably going to turn that region uninhabitable, which is probably why Israel is so desperate to lay claim to the land as soon as possible, wanting an edge in what is likely impending holy wars as the heat drives the region to madness not seen for centuries. Its a shame that the peoples of the region can't unite and overthrow all of their shitty governments and work together instead. If they united and poured all their resources into developing solar projects and water desalinization, they could export energy and clean water the world over and prosper, using the shade to power as they slowly build an oasis out of ruin. Instead they'll just doom themselves to waste slowly, climate slowly boiling the water out of them leaving but sand, the heat of the chaos of our world scorching their hatred til all that's left of them are bleached bones for historians to ponder at what madness could drive such futile self-defeating endeavors. Hopefully someone memes it as a Sisyphus-esque dung beetle, forever stuck desperately trying to roll their shit up their hill, only shit has actual value, hate borne of hate passed down for millennia just leaves soulless husks of men, not even zombies are so brainless and singleminded.

 

[MrSquished]

Israel can only do this because the Americans give them money and weapons to do so. And congress is rushing more money and weapons to Israel so Israel can commit more genocide. So that means that American leaders are talking about protecting civilians and yet giving so many weapons to a government that specifically targets civilians. All talk without any meaning. Israel has full permission of the US to commit genocide.

Oh I totally understand. America is basically funding ethnic cleansing and war crimes. And on top of that mostly glossing over them.

This is why some people here can't understand why Arab Americans are quite so mad, when they literally have an administration straight up paying for an ethnic cleansing, war crimes, and the indiscriminate killing of civilians.

 

[raildogg]

Israel is destroying everything that is associated with Palestinians. They are destroying their universities, schools, museums, churches, mosques and more because they don't want the Palestinians or anything cultural aspect of them to remain. That's why you have Israeli leaders call the Palestinians descendants or seed of Amalek. In Biblical history, the Israelites destroyed the Amalekites because they attacked the Israelites, unprovoked.

Now you have Israeli leaders bringing back this story and calling Palestinians the seed of Amalek, therefore insinuating that they needed to be exterminated just like the Amalekites were exterminated. This is one of the points that was made at the ICJ by South African lawyers, who claimed Israel has the intent of committing genocide. These are legal terms because we know that Israel is committing a genocide.

Here we have NPR actually covering this, kind of surprising given how pro-Israel Western media is:

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1211133201/netanyahus-references-to-violent-biblical-passages-raise-alarm-among-critics

Please read this:

NETANYAHU: (Through interpreter) You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible.

FADEL: Speaking Hebrew, he's comparing Hamas to the nation of Amalek in a passage from the Book of Samuel. That passage says to smite the Amalekites after the nation launched a vicious surprise attack on the Jewish people. Motti Inbari is a professor of religion at the University of North Carolina, Pembroke.

MOTTI INBARI: The biblical commandment is to completely destroy all of Amalek. And when I'm talking about completely destroy, we're talking about killing each and every one of them - including babies, including their property, including the animals - everything.

FADEL: Already, Palestinians in Gaza and human rights groups accuse Israel of indiscriminate attacks that caused mass civilian casualties. Israel's army maintains it does not deliberately target civilians, that the deaths are a byproduct of Hamas entrenched in densely packed areas inside the Gaza Strip. Inbari says his concern stems from the symbolism Netanyahu projects with the biblical metaphors he's used.
Netanyahu said this months ago and that's what they are carrying out. They view Palestinians as descendants of Amalek.

Thank you America and Europe for supporting Israel in fulfilling not only its genocidal mission, but its biblical genocidal mission.

 

[fskimospy]

Israel is destroying everything that is associated with Palestinians. They are destroying their universities, schools, museums, churches, mosques and more because they don't want the Palestinians or anything cultural aspect of them to remain. That's why you have Israeli leaders call the Palestinians descendants or seed of Amalek. In Biblical history, the Israelites destroyed the Amalekites because they attacked the Israelites, unprovoked.

Now you have Israeli leaders bringing back this story and calling Palestinians the seed of Amalek, therefore insinuating that they needed to be exterminated just like the Amalekites were exterminated. This is one of the points that was made at the ICJ by South African lawyers, who claimed Israel has the intent of committing genocide. These are legal terms because we know that Israel is committing a genocide.

Here we have NPR actually covering this, kind of surprising given how pro-Israel Western media is:

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1211133201/netanyahus-references-to-violent-biblical-passages-raise-alarm-among-critics

Please read this:

NETANYAHU: (Through interpreter) You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible.

FADEL: Speaking Hebrew, he's comparing Hamas to the nation of Amalek in a passage from the Book of Samuel. That passage says to smite the Amalekites after the nation launched a vicious surprise attack on the Jewish people. Motti Inbari is a professor of religion at the University of North Carolina, Pembroke.

MOTTI INBARI: The biblical commandment is to completely destroy all of Amalek. And when I'm talking about completely destroy, we're talking about killing each and every one of them - including babies, including their property, including the animals - everything.

FADEL: Already, Palestinians in Gaza and human rights groups accuse Israel of indiscriminate attacks that caused mass civilian casualties. Israel's army maintains it does not deliberately target civilians, that the deaths are a byproduct of Hamas entrenched in densely packed areas inside the Gaza Strip. Inbari says his concern stems from the symbolism Netanyahu projects with the biblical metaphors he's used.
Netanyahu said this months ago and that's what they are carrying out. They view Palestinians as descendants of Amalek.

Thank you America and Europe for supporting Israel in fulfilling not only its genocidal mission, but its biblical genocidal mission.

Using your Russia logic wouldn’t it be best if the Palestinians just stopped resisting so there could be peace?

 

[raildogg]

Do not disrespect this thread or what is being discussed. Different thread, different topic, different situation. Period.

Two totally different conflicts have their own threads. Take the debate there.

 

[fskimospy]

Do not disrespect this thread or what is being discussed. Different thread, different topic, different situation. Period.

I’m simply trying to apply consistent logic.

All I want is peace, therefore the victims of aggression should surrender. This is your position as well so I assume you agree.

 

[raildogg]

Western liberals didn't care about Palestinians or most other peoples of the world who have been suffering for decades but they are totally fixated on Ukraine. To them, only the suffering of Ukrainians seems to matter above all the rest. Now, you are trying to derail a thread about slaughter of Palestinians. Have some decency.

Silence about genocides or war crimes in Ethiopia, Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Lybia and many others but nonstop 24/7 coverage about Ukraine. Now you are trying to bring Ukraine into a thread about Palestinian genocide. What is your fixation on Ukraine? Does the lives of Ukrainians matter more to you and people like you than the lives of other people?

 

[fskimospy]

Western liberals didn't care about Palestinians or most other peoples of the world who have been suffering for decades but they are totally fixated on Ukraine. To them, only the suffering of Ukrainians seems to matter above all the rest. Now, you are trying to derail a thread about slaughter of Palestinians. Have some decency.

Well you should be happy then because you’ve been very clear that aid to Ukraine only prolongs the suffering of Ukrainians.

Therefore aid to Palestine only prolongs the suffering of people you want to protect. If they just surrendered this would all be over and you would have the peace you cherish so much.

If I’m getting something wrong here please feel free to correct me. I’m always down to learn.

 

[raildogg]

I will not discuss Ukraine in this thread. Have some respect. There is a world that exists beyond the Ukraine conflict. People are suffering, hurting all over the world. You Western liberals have been very silent on them for decades. Apparently, Ukrainian lives matter more to you than others.

 

[MrSquished]

Well you should be happy then because you’ve been very clear that aid to Ukraine only prolongs the suffering of Ukrainians.

Therefore aid to Palestine only prolongs the suffering of people you want to protect. If they just surrendered this would all be over and you would have the peace you cherish so much.

If I’m getting something wrong here please feel free to correct me. I’m always down to learn.

Of course we should aid Ukraine, we agree on that. But no matter what point you are trying to make to that poster, any aid we are giving to the Palestinians is purely humanitarian, not militarily like Ukraine.

 

[raildogg]

MrSquished, each situation has to be handled differently. No one rule for all because every situation is extremely complex. Therefore, I don't understand why people must bring Ukraine into this thread. Palestinians have no military, no state of their own, no borders, no economy, no food, no electricity, no water and they cannot even leave that little strip of land called Gaza. And this did not just happen on Oct 7 as most ignorant people claim it did. It started when Israel became a recognized country back in 1948. It's been happening ever since.

America has given Israel more than $300 billion in that period of time since. A country of around 9 million people receiving that much money? And yet, they make Palestinians live in absolute worst conditions that most people won't even make their animals live under.

That's US policy. People here don't like to admit that.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Pretty insane images of a Hamas data center sitting directly under the UNWRA HQ in Gaza (about 65 feet under the HQ).

While it appears that no entrance exists from the UNWRA HQ to the server farm itself, it looks like power and networking were passed from the HQ down into the server farm.

Directly beneath UNRWA’s Gaza headquarters, IDF uncovers top secret Hamas data center

Subterranean facility for terror group's intelligence needs, beneath UN complex in upscale Rimal neighborhood, discovered after interrogations of Palestinian prisoners

www.timesofisrael.com

Some images from the above article of the farm and electric infrastructure (this is underground):
View attachment 93641View attachment 93642

Cables running from the UNRWA HQ down to the farm itself (this is above ground):
View attachment 93643

Maybe I'm late to the party, but where exactly did they install the condensers and fans for the a/cs down there? Did nobody notice the new equipment bolted to the cement topside? Who did the call to patch in their networking equipment?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Do not disrespect this thread or what is being discussed. Different thread, different topic, different situation. Period.

Two totally different conflicts have their own threads. Take the debate there.

Oh fuck off, you're one of the top thread derailers on the forum.

 

[fskimospy]

I will not discuss Ukraine in this thread. Have some respect. There is a world that exists beyond the Ukraine conflict. People are suffering, hurting all over the world. You Western liberals have been very silent on them for decades. Apparently, Ukrainian lives matter more to you than others.

I’m not asking you to discuss Ukraine. I’m asking you to discuss Palestine. Using your logic elsewhere aid to Palestine will only prolong their suffering and I know you don’t want to do that. So, should they surrender?

No need to mention any other nation. Let’s just talk about limiting the suffering of Palestinians. How do you suggest we limit this to the maximum extent possible?

 

[raildogg]

Osirus, you don't deserve any response. Come back when you learn to have a discussion. Until then, no more.

fskinospy, Palestinians have been removed from their ancestral lands, through deception and lies, with the help of the British. They've been under occupation for almost a century now. They are living in the worst conditions. They will fight back. If they were going to surrender, they would have many years ago because Western support goes in one direction - more weapons to Israel so they can murder more Palestinians.

You want to limit the suffering? Give them their lands, give them a country that can defend itself and allow the millions of refugees living in exile to come back. Israel and America will not agree to this. They want a weak, small and defenseless Palestinian state. And now Israelis don't want any Palestinian state.

What do you say to that?