Israel: We Are At War

[kage69]

Russia’s U.N. ambassador, Vassily Nebenzia, told The Associated Press the Americans tried to say during the meeting that Russia isn’t condemning the attacks, but “that’s untrue.”

“It was in my comments,” he said. “We condemn all the attacks on civilians.”



The country targeting civilians in Ukraine wants everyone to know they condemn the targeting of civilians in Israel. Good to know, right? UN Security Council is doing and saying nothing at this point, despite our demands. A bit predictable.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

This is going to get ugly. Israel is going to re-occupy Gaza for awhile, and will very likely be air striking Iran within days. It's quite possible the US will end up getting involved as well. And it could widen much farther than that.

And when it happens the US needs to immediately cut diplomatic ties with Israel and let Netanyahu sink or swim alone.

 

[kage69]

And when it happens the US needs to immediately cut diplomatic ties with Israel and let Netanyahu sink or swim alone.

Yeah, not happening. I think we're much more likely to see the Ford carrier group assist in interdiction and intel gathering, maybe a maritime evac to Turkey or somewhere, who knows. Hopefully they give Iran and Hezbollah more to think about. If things get really bad they will be close enough to get involved and help the IDF.

We're not letting Ukraine go it alone against terror attacks, and we're much closer to Israel than Ukraine. IDF is going to pound Hamas no matter what we say or do, but we have more leverage with them regarding Iran if we stay involved, if it goes that far. Remember that there are American hostages in Gaza now too. We're not going anywhere.

 

[bononos]

I don't think anybody is disputing that Israel is a shithead that does shithead things. If someone is I must have missed it.

Some of the comments are sounding like they didn't know that Israel have been occupying/oppressing/torturing Palestinians for decades.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Yeah, not happening.

Sadly I agree. Biden's going to let that fuck Netanyahu drag us into war with Iran.

 

[woolfe9998]

ROFL acting like Israel hasn't seeded a lot of this hatred for the last 100+ years in Palestine

Sure, every time there is some dastardly terroristic act, it's always either b-b-but Israel or b-b-but the United States.

Just to be clear, the people who have been attacking Israel, and before that, Jews in Palestine, are religious fanatics who treat women like garbage, despise LGBT, and are rabidly anti-semitic. Weird how for certain people those things are condemned when they are American and Christian, but if they're Arab and Islamic, it's just A-OK.

I doubt your knowledge of the actual history of the region is more than superficial or goes back very far. If it did, you'd know that this violence was fueled by anti-semitism from the get go, and these grievances you're talking about are of a much more recent vintage.

 

[kage69]

Sadly I agree. Biden's going to let that fuck Netanyahu drag us into war with Iran.

I can't stand Netanyahu either, but thankfully Biden is no Trump. Joe doesn't get led around like a pet, understands the consequences of war whereas his predecessor was a tough guy poseur who liked to run his mouth. If we get into a war with Iran it'll be because they did something stupid thinking it was in their interest. IDF might limit itself to just Hezbollah if the Iranian proper sits it out, we'll see. I do know there's enough happening in the world right now for the US, not really a fight we want. We'd prefer to focus on letting Ukraine whoop Russia's ass while Taiwan continues to make itself very prickly. There's a bigger show coming up, that's what we need to be preparing for.

 

[zinfamous]

260 dancers at the music festival was killed. They were overwhelmingly left wing peaceniks who supported a better deal for the Palestinians. I don't think there is any doubt that the HAMAS/Iran faction wants the Israeli/Arab struggle to continue for as long as possible. Peace in the Middle east is not in the best interest for the Iranian hardliners.

US evangelicals, also pray for this day to happen. They need terrorism in the land of Apocolypse, so their Jesus can return. They literally believe this to be true, and now are mostly thinking their end times are finally here.

Just watch as the fanatics over here push to up the bloodshed and try to burn the world down.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Sure, every time there is some dastardly terroristic act, it's always either b-b-but Israel or b-b-but the United States.

Because terrorism is a label pretty much used only to describe killing of whites.

 

[kage69]

Because terrorism is a label pretty much used only to describe killing of whites.

Did you miss the whole ISIS thing?

 

[dank69]

Well going by one of the winding theories, not that I disagree with it, Iran is supporting Shia Muslims and sending money and technical plans for Hamas technicians to build drone missiles in Gaza. And those are a fairly big part of the recent invasion.

By the way Biden is resisting that theory as does various liberal news networks. I'm no conservative but it's a sticky thing for progressives and liberals to deal with. Because people are accusing them of helping the Hamas side with the humanitarian aid the US credited to Iran. Some of which is probably being used to fund the Hamas invasion.

Unless there is proof bombing Iran is insane. Concrete proof.

 

[amenx]

So, how did they get all the boomboom stuff?

Tunnels.

Palestinian tunnel warfare in the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Just to be clear, the people who have been attacking Israel, and before that, Jews in Palestine, are religious fanatics who treat women like garbage, despise LGBT, and are rabidly anti-semitic. Weird how for certain people those things are condemned when they are American and Christian, but if they're Arab and Islamic, it's just A-OK.

I doubt your knowledge of the actual history of the region is more than superficial or goes back very far. If it did, you'd know that this violence was fueled by anti-semitism from the get go, and these grievances you're talking about are of a much more recent vintage.

I think it's funny we play victim vs Iran when we're the ones who created the environment for the shitbag right wing Islamists to come to power there by overthrowing their democracy in the name of protecting BP's colonial pillaging of their wealth.

 

[woolfe9998]

First and foremost, in absolutely no fashion will I ever support or excuse the behavior of a terrorist organization like Hamas. What they did is inexcusable.

But do not excuse Israel for their authoritarian rule over Palestinians for decades. Israel's occupation of the Gaza strips and the acts they have committed are oppressive in nature.

I'm massively simplifying it, but how would you like it if someone came and took your land, ruled over you, then divided up your land and gave half to someone else? That's Palestine.

Having been gifted half of Palestine in 1948, Israel was beset on all sides by its Arab neighbors. No one is saying they didn't have a right to defend themselves, even if the home never belonged to them in the first place, it's theirs now. No use crying over spilled milk. Nice doesn't mean weak and doesn't mean not standing up for yourself, so bravo for Israel.

In 1949, Israel signed peace agreements with its neighbors, and as part of the agreements, Egypt controlled the Gaza strip.

In 1956, Israel invaded the Gaza strip. Regardless of their reasoning (which was mostly economical), don't forget that Israel are the invaders.

Decades of bickering later, we have the recent actions of Hamas.

Sorry, but I have to provide some historical context. In 1956, Israel occupied Gaza briefly but pulled out. That war was about the Suez Canal, not Gaza. Gaza was just on the way. If memory serves, the meant to keep it, but were persuaded by the British and French not to. Then again, it was really the British and French who encouraged Israel to attack. It was in 1967, when Israel struck Egypt preemptively after Egypt had massed 100K troops on their border for a planned invasion, that Israel took Gaza and didn't give it back. They also took the West Bank from Jordan in that war. But a strange thing happened after that. All the sudden there was a PLO and this idea of Palestinian nationalism, plus a narrative of an oppressed Palestinian people. emerged. Kind of weird they never attacked Egypt or Jordan over the deplorable conditions in those refugee camps. Suddenly it became an issue after Israel controlled the territory. Also kind of weird they didn't ask for independence or statehood when it was Egypt and Jordan, but they never did.

You missed what also happened in 1948 besides the Jews getting to form a state in about one-third of Palestine. The other two-thirds were offered by the UN to the Palestinians, but they rejected it. They would not take a deal that involved a predominantly Jewish state in any part of Palestine. Then again, they already rejected it when offered by the British in 1939, then again when offered by the State of Israel in 1999. The British offer was especially generous. The Jews would only have gotten 20% of Palestine, but even that was too much.

Sorry but I have trouble having sympathy for a people who are offered statehood 3 times and reject it because they aren't comfortable with Jews living near them, then instead turn to anti-semitic terror groups for governance. And these recent complaints - like the blockading. Well gee I wonder why a country would blockade a territory which is hurling rockets at them. I guess we just saw a graphic example of why. Might have been 10000 rockets instead of 5000 were it not for the blockade, but obviously it wasn't tough enough to really get the job done. This time around, they are going to re-occupy Gaza for a good while until Hamas has been completely destroyed and they can find some stable governance there. And the occupation won't be pretty. Which I'm sure will prompt cries of oppression of the poor Palestinians at the hands of the evil Jews. But the Pals put Hamas in power there. They knew who they were, their history of suicide bombings, their anti-semitic charter, and their violent intentions when they put them in power. I feel sorry for the children and the adults who do not support Hamas. Not much for the rest of them.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

^^^ The Middle East has been at war with itself for centuries. They just need to have it out among themselves and get it over with, one way or another.

The UN plopping Israel down in the middle of it all sure didn't help matters though.

 

[IronWing]

It wasn’t the British’s land to offer. The British would help stop Zionist attacks if the Arabs would only give up a third of their land. Would you have accepted that offer?

No one forced the Israelis to put and keep Netanyahu in power. They chose to do that it full knowledge that violence and oppression would be the result.

 

[Thunder 57]

I can't stand Netanyahu either, but thankfully Biden is no Trump. Joe doesn't get led around like a pet, understands the consequences of war whereas his predecessor was a tough guy poseur who liked to run his mouth. If we get into a war with Iran it'll be because they did something stupid thinking it was in their interest. IDF might limit itself to just Hezbollah if the Iranian proper sits it out, we'll see. I do know there's enough happening in the world right now for the US, not really a fight we want. We'd prefer to focus on letting Ukraine whoop Russia's ass while Taiwan continues to make itself very prickly. There's a bigger show coming up, that's what we need to be preparing for.

FFS do you work for Lockheed or Boeing? China's navy is well, not quite a joke, but not great either. Then again nobody has a navy that comes close to that of the US. Unless that changes, Taiwan will be fine.

 

[rommelrommel]

LOL acting like Zionists only started their takeover of Palestine in 1948

Stop being stupid, a state can’t do things before it exists. If you want to say Zionists, say zionists.

 

[rommelrommel]

Why would Israel strike Iran?

Why wouldn’t they? Iran is the main supporter of Hamas. That’s where the money and weapons come from.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Stop being stupid, a state can’t do things before it exists. If you want to say Zionists, say zionists.

Guess you got me there on that technicality.

 

[aigomorla]

China's navy is well, not quite a joke, but not great either.

Well china's navy is not tested, and that submarine accident they had recently doesn't speak loads of them.
The last effective fleet they had was BeiYang fleet back during the Qin dynasty which lost all its funding and power by the last Empress, ultimately leading its destruction to the Imperial Japanese Navy.

If anything id say their fishing fleet probably has more power then the actual Navy, as those ships are tested in waters, and have been dominating the ocean and any territory they come across.

 

[akugami]

@woolfe9998

So the Palestinians are at fault for not liking, and agreeing, to the fact that invaders stole their land, and are now giving it to someone else? Regardless of whether it was 50% or 5%, or even just 1%, it was never the legal right of any other sovereign state to give out the land. It was stolen from the Palestinians.

I may have gotten some finer details mixed up, but it still doesn't address the fact that after Israel were gifted the land, they were an authoritarian force who committed human rights violations. Don't act like Israel as a nation is innocent.

The United Nations Independent International Commission of Inquiry investigated into the occupied Palestinian territories and concluded that Israel committed human rights violations and enforced a system of apartheid.

Politics is complicated. I'm not going to blame a single Israeli citizen. But the government and politicians, yes. I will blame them for their government, because they are the ones authorizing and furthering human rights violations in the occupied Palestinian territories.

I am not condoning any terrorist act, and never will. There are people in Israel who may not agree with what their government is doing and truly want peace, but the nation itself has been far from innocent in its dealings with Palestine.

 

[Jaskalas]

It's pretty frightening how easy you dismiss the terrorism of the Israelis running an apartheid state for decades, punishing and killing journalists and civilians left and right.

I'm not justifying Hamas attacking civilians, but to ignore the reality of the ground and the horrific campaigns of the Israelis is just as disgusting.

Before this escalation, we should talk peace and forcing Israel to abide by it.
Now, Gaza is to be eliminated as a threat.
After, when things calm down again, we can resume holding Israel accountable for its part.

 

[Jaskalas]

I am not condoning any terrorist act, and never will.

Are you certain of this?
What is an appropriate response after said terrorist act?
Given the situation, it is going to be a disproportionate response in terms of losses. It will be horrible. Can you deem that as necessary? Or do terrorists get a pass when using human shields?
I am looking for anything short of comparing atrocities, but their methods don't exactly leave an alternative. Free pass, or terrible losses.

 

[aigomorla]

What is an appropriate response after said terrorist act?

I don't think there is an appropriate response to this anymore.
What they did, we did to the Native Americans, and for sure you don't see us giving back all the land they owned.