Israel: We Are At War

[amenx]

Excising cancer, exterminating vermin, you don’t think they have a similar ring when applied to a nation of human beings? You don’t think the language is intemperate or sounds like hate speech? How was I supposed to distinguish excising a malignant force supposed to be different from exterminating vermin. One can use a scalpel to do either, but a nuke would be much quicker no.

Are you sure you’re not trying to sugarcoat now what you earlier sad?

Not trying to sugar coat anything. In fact you seem a bit dimmer and less clever than I thought. Given the fact many of our aguments in this thread were driven by absolute revulsion with acts of genocide, that you should turn this around to accuse someone who was very strenuous in making those arguments of harboring genocidal tendencies himself. That is a low blow. Plus I think your rigid interpretation of what "exising" means, that it can only apply to the literal physical removal of a malignancy rather than symbolic removal of the influences that gave rise to them, ie, political lobbying, media distortions and dismantling a rotten political structure that supports it through corruption, money, etc. This sadly seems to narrow your perception of things when you could only interpret it in terms of "exterminating vermin"..

 

[raildogg]

Israel is now losing on all sides and they are panicking so there is desperation. This is why you will see Israelis act desperate and panicked because their survival is more important to them than world peace. So now, since Israel is losing on all fronts, such as diplomatic and economic (I will not mention military because they already lost that), the only thing Israel has left is to bring America into a bigger Middle East conflict. This is well known and American neocons are very much onboard this idea. So that is why Israel is always crying about Iran, etc. This is simply a tactic to bring America to Middle East to fight Israel's enemies.

Why you think US politicians have been crying about Iran for many years? These same politicians also seem to support Israel. Very pro-Israel, anti-Iran policy, especially with US republican party.

Israel has supposedly pulled most troops out of Gaza so this means they might use them in other parts, such as northern borders. This is very dangerous for Israel and they know but because it is very dangerous, they know US will come in and save them from Hezbollah and other groups. This is designed to get US to come and save Israel. Because US politicians are mostly very pro-Israel, they will have no problems doing this. Many have said that they want to target Iran.

However, one must not forget that all US military bases are within reach of Iranian missiles so this will be foolish for US but the US is known to do foolish things, such as supporting Israel.

So the US neocons, who run US foreign policy, might be using this opportunity to save Israel and to attack Iran. You don't think Israelis consulted US before attacking Iranian embassy in Syria?! A very dangerous move that is designed to escalate chances of wider war.

Look at this American warmonger, always thirsting for more wars. He is blaming Hamas on Iran instead of blaming Hamas on Israeli occupation and brutal treatment of Palestinians.

 

[Moonbeam]

Edit Sorry I made the same mistake again here, emperus and have removed your post again. I have issues posting on my ipad

Not trying to sugar coat anything. In fact you seem a bit dimmer and less clever than I thought. Given the fact many of our aguments in this thread were driven by absolute revulsion with acts of genocide, that you should turn this around to accuse someone who was very strenuous in making those arguments of harboring genocidal tendencies himself. That is a low blow. Plus I think your rigid interpretation of what "exising" means, that it can only apply to the literal physical removal of a malignancy rather than symbolic removal of the influences that gave rise to them, ie, political lobbying, media distortions and dismantling a rotten political structure that supports it through corruption, money, etc. This sadly seems to narrow your perception of things when you could only interpret it in terms of "exterminating vermin"..

Of course you avoided the core issue that I asked @dank69, who has also disappeared from the scene, to address, to 0prove that your absolute revulsion is anything but a result of unexamined unconscious assumptions you hold that you can't prove are absolute at all when asked to do so. And I did not turn the argument around arguing that genocide is OK. I pointed out that the people you accuse of committing it are justifying their actions in the same unconscious unexamined assumptions they also can never prove are justified as they claim. So you threw the punch that landed below the belt by incorrectly understanding my point.

And I know what excising means. It means that 'blood bath' refers to 'economics'. I think that language matters and that the left should be mindful of what they say and how anybody with an ounce of sense knows how it will be heard on the right or by people like me.

 

[dank69]

Of course you avoided the core issue that I asked @dank69, who has also disappeared from the scene, to address, to 0prove that your absolute revulsion is anything but a result of unexamined unconscious assumptions you hold that you can't prove are absolute at all when asked to do so. And I did not turn the argument around arguing that genocide is OK. I pointed out that the people you accuse of committing it are justifying their actions in the same unconscious unexamined assumptions they also can never prove are justified as they claim. So you threw the punch that landed below the belt by incorrectly understanding my point.

And I know what excising means. It means that 'blood bath' refers to 'economics'. I think that language matters and that the left should be mindful of what they say and how anybody with an ounce of sense knows how it will be heard on the right or by people like me.

I disappeared because I didnt feel like engaging in mental masturbation. Nothing can be proven to a person that is determined to not know.

 

[emperus]

Of course you avoided the core issue that I asked @dank69, who has also disappeared from the scene, to address, to 0prove that your absolute revulsion is anything but a result of unexamined unconscious assumptions you hold that you can't prove are absolute at all when asked to do so. And I did not turn the argument around arguing that genocide is OK. I pointed out that the people you accuse of committing it are justifying their actions in the same unconscious unexamined assumptions they also can never prove are justified as they claim. So you threw the punch that landed below the belt by incorrectly understanding my point.

And I know what excising means. It means that 'blood bath' refers to 'economics'. I think that language matters and that the left should be mindful of what they say and how anybody with an ounce of sense knows how it will be heard on the right or by people like me.

I don't understand why you quoted me here again.

 

[Moonbeam]

I disappeared because I didnt feel like engaging in mental masturbation. Nothing can be proven to a person that is determined to not know.

It does not matter to me if you believe this characterization you give here or if you believe it's the reason you didn't reply. The fact is that I knew to expect anything but the proof I requested. As I said, to seek the answer with passion, would lead to ego death.

 

[Pohemi]

You are implying that a military complex killing tens of thousands of unarmed and destitute civilians is not genocide, because we apparently can't hand you "moral proof" on a silver platter. You would have us believe that we only care about it due to our subjective moral programming. As if there's nothing wrong with people being slaughtered.

And because of that, the genociders are apparently as correct in their subjective beliefs as all of the people and nations of the world that have been raising alarms. We just can't understand it because we haven't experienced ego death like you. (Supposedly)

@Moonbeam you're back to your idiotic nonsense. And it isn't because we can't understand some cosmic truth. You think mass murder/genocide can't be called what it is? You're an idiot.

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't understand why you quoted me here again.

I suck at posting especially on my ipad. This was the post of yours I wanted at first to respond to but decided not to because I decided I had little to add: I will put what I might of said in (Moonbeam)

"Or it could be that this wasn't primarily about the hostages, but a deeper "mowing of the lawn". (I have believed this to be the case most all of my adult life.)

And at this point Biden has to be getting all types of blinking red lights from the intelligence community and Foreign Affair policy types. What Israel is doing in Gaza is not beneficial to the US in any way. Even leaving out their attack on an Iranian embassy and the coming fallout from that, the generation of terrorists that will spring from this probably has policy makers very nervous. (I believe it isn't good for them or for us}

It's a thing to see how Israel, predictably, squandered its own good will and is dragging the US along for the ride. (I saw it coming since I met my Jewish analysist and the teacher who taught me how it is that we create what we fear. It may be something to see for you and it is also for me, but I understood long ago that it would happen.)

Biden seems to have lost not just his moral center here but any real long term policy goals when it comes to Israel. (You can't lose a moral center that is real, that is based on the transcendence of ego.) How is any of this sustainable? (Humanity is asleep and living with a an unconscious death wish. We would rather die than remember we have all been through worse than a concentration camp.] What's next, a Palestinian people without a state, without the ability to vote, just corralled in an area, without any Hospitals, Schools, infrastructure? History is flooded with lessons of similar situations. (endless cycles of revenge until nobody is left standing)"

And why? Because people believe they already know the truth when in fact they know nothing. Wisdom can't be given to those who believe they already have it nor be prevented from filling the heart of anyone empty of ego. There is only love.

 

[igor_kavinski]

(I saw it coming since I met my Jewish analysist and the teacher who taught me how it is that we create what we fear. It may be something to see for you and it is also for me, but I understood long ago that it would happen.)

So you are gonna side with Israel coz you had a Jewish teacher who enlightened you in some way?

Brilliant objectivity

Did you miss the bit about Israeli security consultants teaching US police lessons on effective brutality?

Israel Security Forces Are Training American Cops Despite History of Rights Abuses

Police training in Israel organized by lobby groups, like the ADL, introduce U.S. cops to militarized security forces that abuse Palestinians' rights.

theintercept.com

Police Violence in the U.S. and Israel Warrants a Closer Look

Protests in Tel Aviv Outside the US Embassy Branch Office, June 2, 2020. Photo Credit: Ariel Schalit, AP Photo Israel was one of many countries experiencing waves of protests decrying the murder of…

georgetownsecuritystudiesreview.org

According to the New York Times, at least four Ethiopian-Israelis have been killed by Israeli police since 1997, and another seven Ethiopian-Israelis perished following encounters with the police, but their deaths were registered as suicides or other vague causes. None of the officers have been charged for these teens’ deaths, and many of Israel’s 150,000 Ethiopian-Israelis still report feeling unsafe around police officers.

 

[Moonbeam]

You are implying that a military complex killing tens of thousands of unarmed and destitute civilians is not genocide, because we apparently can't hand you "moral proof" on a silver platter. You would have us believe that we only care about it due to our subjective moral programming. As if there's nothing wrong with people being slaughtered.

And because of that, the genociders are apparently as correct in their subjective beliefs as all of the people and nations of the world that have been raising alarms. We just can't understand it because we haven't experienced ego death like you. (Supposedly)

@Moonbeam you're back to your idiotic nonsense. And it isn't because we can't understand some cosmic truth. You think mass murder/genocide can't be called what it is? You're an idiot.

Thank you for the wonderful complement but if you had been reading my posts I already addressed you critique. Mass murder/genocide are words whose meanings are quite clear. My point is that you can't provide any proof they are wrong. Again and again you and others here will raise any other issue than understand that is my point. You simply can't face the fact that your belief in their wrongness is countered by an equally and completely irrational belief they are good. Now please show me the Bible you are reading from that has made you know they are absolutely wrong. There is nothing there but opinions just as empty as the idiots that justify them. The disease you have is called certainty. You think you know but in fact you know nothing. You are at the level of believing it is bad to belch at the table, palming off your childhood training as if it were cosmic truth.

You are a believer in the religion of you.

 

[igor_kavinski]

My point is that you can't provide any proof they are wrong.

Oh so until some acceptable proof is provided to you, Israel is free to keep their little genocide going? You have gone off the rocker, sadly.

 

[Moonbeam]

Oh so until some acceptable proof is provided to you, Israel is free to keep their little genocide going? You have gone off the rocker, sadly.

No, you put me in a box that would equate to being off my rocker if I fit there. Sadly the box you fabricated our of your own mental condition is what is off the rocker. I am profoundly opposed to the actions being taken by Israel's right wing religious party coalition and was strongly condemned earlier in this thread as being antisemitic. Sorry to disappoint you. It is the nature of self hate to invent targets to dump on.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I am profoundly opposed to the actions being taken by Israel's right wing religious party coalition and was strongly condemned earlier in this thread as being antisemitic.

Then what the heck are you on about? Why even raising the possibility that Israel's genocide may be the right thing for them to do?

 

[Pohemi]

Here's what he's on about.

We only think genocide and murder is wrong because we were told to.
Those committing genocide are as correct in their subjectivity as you are. They are just as entitled to kill people as you are to tell them that killing people is wrong and bad.

These are the claims from Moonpie.

He wants to sound worldly and wise, but he's an idiot with the way he tries to make points sometimes.

 

[Moonbeam]

Then what the heck are you on about? Why even raising the possibility that Israel's genocide may be the right thing for them to do?

I did not raise that possibility. It's something you whispered in your own ear. I am not arguing that Israel is committing genocide or not committing it. I responded to dank69 saying this:

"With how shitty Israel has been acting lately I honestly don't care if they get their asses handed to them. Netanyahu and all their far right leaders being assassinated would only make the world a better place."

I said it is typical of low level thinkers to suggest the best way to solve problems is to exterminate the source and that indifference to assassination is along the same level of thinking, so I asked dank that if he thinks Netanyahu's solution to the Palestinian attack justifies his assassination to prove why he is right and Netanyahu isn't. I would have asked Netanyahu the same thing but he didn't post in this thread, at least not under that name.

Of course people are having trouble coming to grips with what I was asking because, in my opinion, they and you have never really learned to look for the reasons you believe what you believe. Even now you will probably just turn this in to a feeling you are being offended. Like I care. The world is full of violence because people are stuffed full of unexamined absolute rubbish. and all of that becomes absolutely obvious when someone asks for proof. Then everything that is wrong with them becomes wrong with me.

 

[Moonbeam]

Here's what he's on about.

We only think genocide and murder is wrong because we were told to.
Those committing genocide are as correct in their subjectivity as you are. They are just as entitled to kill people as you are to tell them that killing people is wrong and bad.

These are the claims from Moonpie.

He wants to sound worldly and wise, but he's an idiot with the way he tries to make points sometimes.

Not to mention insane. Imagine having all this ego need to sound worldly and wise for 25 years posting here and never having noticed that what I see and say earns me the title of Idiot. People with an ego needs one would learn to adapt, I should think.

Please, all you have to do, if you think I am saying that genocide and murder are wrong because you were told to and want to refute that, just tell me what proof you have they are wrong. Open your Bible and read to me. Doesn't it go something like this? Evil is evil because it is evil with maybe an addenda that stipulates that any who think differently should be killed.

What a shock it is to discover that all that passionate worship of sacred cows are but castles built on sand. Probably worse than losing your life savings. But there is always pretend and the self righteous joys of revenge, real or imagined.

 

[dank69]

Not to mention insane. Imagine having all this ego need to sound worldly and wise for 25 years posting here and never having noticed that what I see and say earns me the title of Idiot. People with an ego needs one would learn to adapt, I should think.

Please, all you have to do, if you think I am saying that genocide and murder are wrong because you were told to and want to refute that, just tell me what proof you have they are wrong. Open your Bible and read to me. Doesn't it go something like this? Evil is evil because it is evil with maybe an addenda that stipulates that any who think differently should be killed.

What a shock it is to discover that all that passionate worship of sacred cows are but castles built on sand. Probably worse than losing your life savings. But there is always pretend and the self righteous joys of revenge, real or imagined.

Like I said, it can't be "proven." For all we know our creator may reward the person with the highest kill count when we die. In the meantime, society reaches a consensus in what they believe to be right and wrong and we go by that. The bigger the ratio between the two sides the more acceptable it is to call the majority "right."

 

[KMFJD]

Now that Erdogan's party lost their elections in Turkey they are starting to sanction israel, in response israel asks daddy to sanction Turkey

الحرب على غزة.. قصف متواصل والمأساة تتكشف بعد انسحاب الاحتلال من خان يونس

لليوم الـ186 من العدوان على غزة، واصل الاحتلال ارتكاب المجازر بحق المدنيين الفلسطينيين. وفي حين تواصل المقاومة الفلسطينية التصدي للاحتلال في ميدان المعارك، لا تزال صواريخ حزب الله تضرب المستوطنات.

aja.ws

 

[igor_kavinski]

Even now you will probably just turn this in to a feeling you are being offended.

Thanks for the clarification. It doesn't offend me like your preceding posts.

 

[igor_kavinski]

What a shock it is to discover that all that passionate worship of sacred cows are but castles built on sand.

It's not a question of religious righteousness compelling us to decry Israel's actions. Anyone with the minimum amount of functioning neurons required for logical deduction can see that Israel is using October 7 as an opportunity to vehemently wipe out the thorn from their side, all the while completely ignoring everything they did before Oct 7 to provoke that incident which includes ignoring the warnings from their own intelligence analysts about the possibility of such an attack, as if these warnings were ignored deliberately to LET the Oct 7 incident take place. Then on top of that their lies about beheaded babies or serious allegations of barbaric sexual violence against Israeli women all seem to be hastily orchestrated PR stunts designed to shield them from world scrutiny while they go about their business of killing civilians under the guise of targeting Hamas. How come their casual cruelty to women and children seems so normal and justified to you that you start asking weird questions about the proposed assassination of agents of mayhem like Netanyahu? No one "normal" would call Netanyahu or Putin or Kim Jong Un "decent men" because they are unapologetically evil and hence deserve the very worst fate. Doing mental gymnastics to let these madmen live is where you lose us.

 

[IronWing]

That's special. Bibi doesn't understand that Turkey's posture toward Russia's war in Ukraine is far more important to U.S. interests than supporting Israel's genocide against the Palestinians? Congressional Republicans could hold another dog and pony show, I suppose. The Undersecretary of State for Toddler Affairs could play with her phone while Gaetz primped his hair and sent text messages to HS girls.

 

[Pohemi]

No, I want proof it is morally wrong.

'Genocide and murder of others is only wrong in your minds according to your morals which were programmed by a bible. You can't show me objective proof that it's wrong.'

I want proof that you're not objectively a fucking moron. Good luck, you have a lot of hole to dig out of.

 

[KMFJD]

CNN report on the flour massacre

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/09/middleeast/gaza-food-aid-convoy-deaths-eyewitness-intl-investigation-cmd

tldr:IOF opened fire with a 600rpm MG on a breadline of unarmed civilians.

 

[MrSquished]

CNN report on the flour massacre

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/09/middleeast/gaza-food-aid-convoy-deaths-eyewitness-intl-investigation-cmd

tldr:IOF opened fire with a 600rpm MG on a breadline of unarmed civilians.

Of course they did. Everyone should know that the israeli government and the IDF are genocidal murderous maniacs. They've always used Palestinian civilians as targets, snipers taking out different body parts while joking about it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Like I said, it can't be "proven." For all we know our creator may reward the person with the highest kill count when we die. In the meantime, society reaches a consensus in what they believe to be right and wrong and we go by that. The bigger the ratio between the two sides the more acceptable it is to call the majority "right."

I have to confess I missed where you said this but I don't want to argue if you did or you didn't. What you say here is what I want to talk to you about. I find it to be dangerously wrong:

First off, why would you say that "For all we know our creator may reward the person with the highest kill count when we die." Who is this 'we'? Language is important I think. It may be very comforting and natural for people to express an opinion they hold as if it were some universally held truth. That's the point I have been trying to get across at this place in this thread. Is it not closer to the truth to say that for all you know the creator if one exists could be what most would refer to as a monster? Your statement is either careless or an unexamined belief in a discussion about how we know things, of course, in my opinion.

Secondly, how preposterously wrong could it possibly be to state that the truth rests on numbers, that it is a consensus of what some majority believes? I have been challenging that notion all of my life. It just so happens that you belong to a collection of people opposed to murder and genocide as solutions to perceived threats. But in ancient times and maybe tomorrow the idea of extermination of the other was quite the rage. And so it was in Nazi Germany not so long ago. I am sorry but I can't possibly agree with you that consensus determines truth.

So now we have come full circle. Those who believe they hold to absolute truth can't prove a thing and those who say it's a social norm have no answer to a truth held by a monstrous majority cult.

I hear the sound of one hand clapping.