Israel: We Are At War

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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,558
29,214
136
I have to confess I missed where you said this but I don't want to argue if you did or you didn't. What you say here is what I want to talk to you about. I find it to be dangerously wrong:

First off, why would you say that "For all we know our creator may reward the person with the highest kill count when we die." Who is this 'we'? Language is important I think. It may be very comforting and natural for people to express an opinion they hold as if it were some universally held truth. That's the point I have been trying to get across at this place in this thread. Is it not closer to the truth to say that for all you know the creator if one exists could be what most would refer to as a monster? Your statement is either careless or an unexamined belief in a discussion about how we know things, of course, in my opinion.

Secondly, how preposterously wrong could it possibly be to state that the truth rests on numbers, that it is a consensus of what some majority believes? I have been challenging that notion all of my life. It just so happens that you belong to a collection of people opposed to murder and genocide as solutions to perceived threats. But in ancient times and maybe tomorrow the idea of extermination of the other was quite the rage. And so it was in Nazi Germany not so long ago. I am sorry but I can't possibly agree with you that consensus determines truth.

So now we have come full circle. Those who believe they hold to absolute truth can't prove a thing and those who say it's a social norm have no answer to a truth held by a monstrous majority cult.

I hear the sound of one hand clapping.
It's not simple consensus as we all know where that leads. It's when the imbalance becomes overwhelming that I think we can often say that one side is right. When the ratio of people who believe x vs the people who believe not x approaches 8:1 or 9:1 it is increasingly likely that the 1 has a screw or two loose. When talking about experts on a specific subject reaching that ratio, I'm going to believe them over anyone else. And that's what we have with respect to Gaza, along with loads of images and video documenting the genocide. Your chemtrail believer cannot match that when it comes to "proof."
 
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Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,345
12,682
146
And that's what we have with respect to Gaza, along with loads of images and video documenting the genocide. Your chemtrail believer cannot match that when it comes to "proof."

BuT tHaT sTiLL iSn'T pRo0f oF wHy GeNoCiDe/mUrDeR iS wRoNg.

Doesn't really matter what you say to him. He's too enlightened to hear you.
 
Reactions: igor_kavinski

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
It's not a question of religious righteousness compelling us to decry Israel's actions. Anyone with the minimum amount of functioning neurons required for logical deduction can see that Israel is using October 7 as an opportunity to vehemently wipe out the thorn from their side, all the while completely ignoring everything they did before Oct 7 to provoke that incident which includes ignoring the warnings from their own intelligence analysts about the possibility of such an attack, as if these warnings were ignored deliberately to LET the Oct 7 incident take place. Then on top of that their lies about beheaded babies or serious allegations of barbaric sexual violence against Israeli women all seem to be hastily orchestrated PR stunts designed to shield them from world scrutiny while they go about their business of killing civilians under the guise of targeting Hamas. How come their casual cruelty to women and children seems so normal and justified to you that you start asking weird questions about the proposed assassination of agents of mayhem like Netanyahu? No one "normal" would call Netanyahu or Putin or Kim Jong Un "decent men" because they are unapologetically evil and hence deserve the very worst fate. Doing mental gymnastics to let these madmen live is where you lose us.
You still don't get it. What I have said neither affirms or denies anything you said here. You keep arguing as if what I have said implies that I have. As long as you can create the illusion in your mind that I am disagreeing with you on this, and I am neither agreeing or disagreeing, you feel free to attack me. That's not a problem for me. It come with the territory. Everybody be.ieves in whatever good they believe is the good. All I ask is that you give me proof that what you say is good is good. What you have instead of proof is certainty which blinds you to the fact you have none.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
'Genocide and murder of others is only wrong in your minds according to your morals which were programmed by a bible. You can't show me objective proof that it's wrong.'

I want proof that you're not objectively a fucking moron. Good luck, you have a lot of hole to dig out of.
You are my proof that I am a fucking moron in your mind, but I see only your opinion and no proof of its accuracy. You are entitled to your opinion but not any claim it is factual. So why then would I need to prove anything? You just made some noise, sound and fury signifying nothing as the bard would say.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
It's not simple consensus as we all know where that leads. It's when the imbalance becomes overwhelming that I think we can often say that one side is right. When the ratio of people who believe x vs the people who believe not x approaches 8:1 or 9:1 it is increasingly likely that the 1 has a screw or two loose. When talking about experts on a specific subject reaching that ratio, I'm going to believe them over anyone else. And that's what we have with respect to Gaza, along with loads of images and video documenting the genocide. Your chemtrail believer cannot match that when it comes to "proof."
I can't argue with this as your opinion, but to me it makes no sense. When 6 out of ten dentists agree that Crest is the best tooth paste that's questionable but become true when 9 out of ten agree. Nonsense. In my opinion the reason that one in perhaps thousands has any real idea of truth your numbers game means nothing to me. In my opinion you have not understood that the last thing anybody wants to know is the truth and that the for any unenlightened person the truth is just what they happen to feel. Unless you have rooted out this motivation to avoid knowing what you really feel by feeling it, you will remain asleep to reality. There is only awareness or ignorance and nobody who sleeps can be awakened until they desperately want to be or are driven by deep curiosity to understand their true condition.

I would like to suggest a line of inquiry that may help you with this numbers game. Our forefathers sought to justify their separation from England. What what proof did they supply as justification for that decision?
 
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Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,345
12,682
146
That was exactly my point- What proof?

I've looked at your comments the last page or two as objectively and open-minded as I could, trying to understand your point. I suppose I do, but it's a bad point you are trying to drive home, and you picked a bad subject to try to argue it.

i.e. you're still a moron (IMO)
 
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Jul 27, 2020
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As long as you can create the illusion in your mind that I am disagreeing with you on this, and I am neither agreeing or disagreeing, you feel free to attack me.
Here's my philosophy:

When one sees evil being done, one should put a stop to it.

Not possible because you are too weak to do that? Speak against the evil.

Afraid of repercussions for opening your mouth? Fine. At the very least, HATE the evil with all your might IN your heart so that your heart doesn't forget the difference between good and evil. So you can keep the morality of your heart alive.

But wait. Now you are gonna ask the definition of evil or who or what criteria determines what is or what isn't evil. Personally, anything that I don't want happening to me and I see it happening to someone else, human or any other living being, is evil. That's as unreligious a definition of evil as I can give you. Sorry if that doesn't cut it for you.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,558
29,214
136
I can't argue with this as your opinion, but to me it makes no sense. When 6 out of ten dentists agree that Crest is the best tooth paste that's questionable but become true when 9 out of ten agree.
It's 4 out of 5 dentists and that's a great example. It isn't about what someone says 80% of people or experts agree, it's that 80% of people or experts actually agree. Peer reviewed. Documented evidence anyone can dig into if they actually don't agree, not just disagreeing because it is painful to their ego.


Nonsense. In my opinion the reason that one in perhaps thousands has any real idea of truth your numbers game means nothing to me. In my opinion you have not understood that the last thing anybody wants to know is the truth and that the for any unenlightened person the truth is just what they happen to feel.
I'm not talking about the truth. I'm talking about objective reality. Test. Predict. Observe. Demonstrate. Fuck the truth. If there is any truth to be found it will be found when we're dead. Until then, discussions of truth are masturbation.

Unless you have rooted out this motivation to avoid knowing what you really feel by feeling it, you will remain asleep to reality. There is only awareness or ignorance and nobody who sleeps can be awakened until they desperately want to be or are driven by deep curiosity to understand their true condition.
This is beside the point and just more masturbation.

I would like to suggest a line of inquiry that may help you with this numbers game. Our forefathers sought to justify their separation from England. What what proof did they supply as justification for that decision?
More masturbation. Our forefathers didn't have the internet where everyone can validate the information they're told.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
That was exactly my point- What proof?

I've looked at your comments the last page or two as objectively and open-minded as I could, trying to understand your point. I suppose I do, but it's a bad point you are trying to drive home, and you picked a bad subject to try to argue it.

i.e. you're still a moron (IMO)
We all love free speech until it threatens our sacred cows. I do appreciate your stated effort to be objective. I also take you at your word. The assertion I made is that you could offer no objective proof of your position and you proved unable to do so. I had nothing else to prove. You did it for me.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
Its 4 out of 5 dentists and thats a great example. It isn't about what someone says 80% of people or experts agree, it's that 80% of people or experts actually agree. Peer reviewed. Documented evidence anyone can dig into if they actually don't agree, not just disagreeing because it is painful to their ego.



I'm not talking about the truth. I'm talking about objective reality. Test. Predict. Observe. Demonstrate. Fuck the truth. If there is any truth to be found it will be found when we're dead. Until then, discussions of truth are masturbation.


This is beside the point and just more masturbation.


More masturbation. Our forefathers didn't have the internet where everyone can validate the information they're told.
Who needs the internet when you have lived experience:





"In Congress, July 4, 1776


The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.


He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.


Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.


We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

All the documentation you listed above is present here in my opinion but the basis on which it's validity rested was not peer reviewed, it was lived experience and the core principle of proof on which it rested was self evidence that all men are created equal. How do you suppose such a bedrock moral premise came to be considered self evident? If it is self evident then perhaps you have lost your way.

So I would ask you this. Does the Israeli government treat Palestinians as equals.

The minute you decided that you cared not if Netanyahu were to be assassinated you gave permission to see you the same way.

Words matter. The self evident truth that we are all created equal is self evident but only to those who love themselves out of the awareness of our true nature. Who were you before you were told who to be?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
Here's my philosophy:

When one sees evil being done, one should put a stop to it.
Hold on to your hat. When you see evil being done you are witnessing a projection created by your mind. Nothing is good or bad least thinking makes it so. What you call evil is the memory deeply repressed of how you were made to feel when being punished and verbally tortured as a child because your parents, like you now, were ignorant of the fact that evil does not exist. And so it is that in order to survive the shame and the pain of memory you became this great warrior against the very thing you were accused of. You went to sleep in an ego dream comforting yourself that you were a member of duality's good team.

All of this was made possible by how words divide unity and how thought can imagine via language things that don't exist, things like good and evil. He or she who has integrated the opposites, seen their identical nature, transcends duality altogether in a different state of consciousness.
Not possible because you are too weak to do that? Speak against the evil.
I am weak no doubt but because I can't maintain a constant state of awareness that I don't exist.
Afraid of repercussions for opening your mouth? Fine. At the very least, HATE the evil with all your might IN your heart so that your heart doesn't forget the difference between good and evil. So you can keep the morality of your heart alive.
Thanks to the power of Grace all that died long ago. I arrived at the exact place that you fear. I asked myself why do I suffer that life has no meaning and that good and evil are equally the same. A gust of wind stopped my thoughts and suddenly I knew. Everything I had ever hoped for and dreamed about was always there in the now hidden by thinking.
But wait. Now you are gonna ask the definition of evil or who or what criteria determines what is or what isn't evil. Personally, anything that I don't want happening to me and I see it happening to someone else, human or any other living being, is evil. That's as unreligious a definition of evil as I can give you. Sorry if that doesn't cut it for you.
If you do not want to do evil to other people stop believing that evil is real. The intentional misery you see caused by one person against another is caused by the belief they are evil.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,155
5,623
146
Welp, now that Moonpie has derailed the thread with his trademark cosmopsychological masturbatory pontification...

View attachment 96707

This thread was for news and discussion of the war/slaughter in Gaza, not idiot philosophy excusing atrocities.

I wish him success in his journey to deal with the intense self hatred he's clearly suffering with. Perhaps one day, we too might be spared his anguish, I can only imagine how terrible it must be for him, based on the clear overwhelming nature of it as evidenced in the number and length of his posts.
 
Reactions: igor_kavinski

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,558
29,214
136
Who needs the internet when you have lived experience:





"In Congress, July 4, 1776


The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.


He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.


Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.


We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

All the documentation you listed above is present here in my opinion but the basis on which it's validity rested was not peer reviewed, it was lived experience and the core principle of proof on which it rested was self evidence that all men are created equal. How do you suppose such a bedrock moral premise came to be considered self evident? If it is self evident then perhaps you have lost your way.

So I would ask you this. Does the Israeli government treat Palestinians as equals.

The minute you decided that you cared not if Netanyahu were to be assassinated you gave permission to see you the same way.

Words matter. The self evident truth that we are all created equal is self evident but only to those who love themselves out of the awareness of our true nature. Who were you before you were told who to be?
What is self-evident to one may be demonstrably false to another. Only when something is self-evident to ~80% of a population does it begin to demand serious consideration for enshrinement as moral.

I thought my stance that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians answered your question about if they are being treated as equals. Was that not clear?

Why does Netanyahu deserve my consideration? Why should I give a single flying fuck about whatever may happens to him? Why should anyone? I would piss on him if he was on fire, but I'd make sure to not piss enough to put the fire out.

We are created equal but what we choose to do with our lives is certainly not equal in my eyes when some people choose to inflict pain and suffering on others.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
What is self-evident to one may be demonstrably false to another. Only when something is self-evident to ~80% of a population does it begin to demand serious consideration for enshrinement as moral.

I thought my stance that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians answered your question about if they are being treated as equals. Was that not clear?

Why does Netanyahu deserve my consideration? Why should I give a single flying fuck about whatever may happens to him? Why should anyone? I would piss on him if he was on fire, but I'd make sure to not piss enough to put the fire out.

We are created equal but what we choose to do with our lives is certainly not equal in my eyes when some people choose to inflict pain and suffering on others.
That’s the whole point, dank. People were programmed as children and in a way that to survive they had to suppress the conscious pain of those feelings. We were put to sleep, unconscious of that what motivates our actions is whatever it takes to avoid those feelings. The obvious characterization that manifests in adults is denial and projection. Self hate has to go somewhere. For Netanyahu it goes to the Palestinians. How he was made to feel about himself is how he sees them. Your contempt for him is the same.

This is why humanity is caught in an endless cycle of vengeful violence. This is the wheel of Karma. Here and there people stop time wake up and get off. Always have, always will.

If you can credit the possibility that we are motivated by forces we are not consciously aware of or via one of the myriad paths to be found that aims at awakening, one acquires a sense of this one will begin to understand that the enemy is not the other but the ego self.

This can change everything. Two people who know who the real enemy is can begin the journey of healing, can aim for a future of peace.

Netanyahu has as much choice in his actions as you do over your contempt for him. How do you expect he has choice when you don’t either.

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. ...
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. ...
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,558
29,214
136
That’s the whole point, dank. People were programmed as children and in a way that to survive they had to suppress the conscious pain of those feelings. We were put to sleep, unconscious of that what motivates our actions is whatever it takes to avoid those feelings. The obvious characterization that manifests in adults is denial and projection. Self hate has to go somewhere. For Netanyahu it goes to the Palestinians. How he was made to feel about himself is how he sees them. Your contempt for him is the same.

This is why humanity is caught in an endless cycle of vengeful violence. This is the wheel of Karma. Here and there people stop time wake up and get off. Always have, always will.

If you can credit the possibility that we are motivated by forces we are not consciously aware of or via one of the myriad paths to be found that aims at awakening, one acquires a sense of this one will begin to understand that the enemy is not the other but the ego self.

This can change everything. Two people who know who the real enemy is can begin the journey of healing, can aim for a future of peace.

Netanyahu has as much choice in his actions as you do over your contempt for him. How do you expect he has choice when you don’t either.

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. ...
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. ...
The idea that we have a choice or not does not matter. We generally as a society have decided that we should prevent people from harming others.

Netanyahu is harming others. He should be stopped. People that do not agree he should be stopped are going against what we have collectively decided would be good for humanity.

It doesn't matter how they justify it in their minds. You wouldn't care about the motivation behind an intruder standing in your living room with a gun to the head of your family member. You would just pull the trigger of your gun to stop him. Well, Palestinians are your family and Netanyahu is executing them in your universe.

Your Jesus speak falls flat as well. If I went around genociding people I would fully expect everyone to stop me with lethal force if necessary.
 
Jul 27, 2020
17,713
11,499
106
Moonbeam should try to get access to Netanyahu through his Jewish teacher. It should be a short audience. Netanyahu will laugh when he is told that he has hate inside him and then he will tell his troops to have their fun with him (it's gonna be very unpleasant).

I'm sorry, Moonbeam. I don't know what kind of experience you have with people in the real world but murderous psychopathic jackasses don't listen to any sort of reasoning. They would rather stab their ears with an icepick than listen to some lecture about morality or ethics or self reflection or peering into their soul.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
Moonbeam should try to get access to Netanyahu through his Jewish teacher. It should be a short audience. Netanyahu will laugh when he is told that he has hate inside him and then he will tell his troops to have their fun with him (it's gonna be very unpleasant).

I'm sorry, Moonbeam. I don't know what kind of experience you have with people in the real world but murderous psychopathic jackasses don't listen to any sort of reasoning. They would rather stab their ears with an icepick than listen to some lecture about morality or ethics or self reflection or peering into their soul.
Projections can sometimes be accurate. And you are telling me something I havebeen saying here for 25 years. Perhaps you can’t hear.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,639
487
126
perhaps in all the recriminations that seem to be flying around it would safe to remember that the history of Israel and Palestine didn't start last October, just as the history of Ukraine and Russia didn't start in the early months of 2022.



____________
 
Reactions: igor_kavinski

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
Not sure what the point of arguing with moonie is. I stopped reading his posts after my last exchange with him.
It’s always amusing to me when people announce with great fanfare the pride they take in ignoring me. Self hate is a result of being made to feel worthless, as too insignificant to be worthy of attention. Of course what it really means is that they can’t handle the feelings the ignored person threatens to bring up. When you feel insignificant you treat others that way while lying to yourself about the reasons.

I was once a night in shinning armor, a warrior of truth, that is until I discovered that all that l held sacred was just a gigantic joke. Turns out I’m actually an insignificant nobody who no longer believes.

But now I get to enjoy another kind of joke, a nobody being called a nobody by self important people. So much precision in one direction and so much blindness in the other.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,033
4,798
136
Now Hamas admits they don't have the 40 live hostages to trade after all. IMHO Israel will destroy what's left of Gaza.
 
Jul 27, 2020
17,713
11,499
106
Now Hamas admits they don't have the 40 live hostages to trade after all.
These bastards deserve to burn in Hell. Incompetent fools. They should've targeted a military base instead of civilians if they really wanted justice. Cowards. And innocent people on both sides paid for their cowardice.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,783
20,140
136
These bastards deserve to burn in Hell. Incompetent fools. They should've targeted a military base instead of civilians if they really wanted justice. Cowards. And innocent people on both sides paid for their cowardice.
The Palestinians are fucking starving and they've been bombed into the Stone age you think keeping hostages alive in those kind of situations is as simple as pie.

It's pretty clear Hamas was using them as bargaining chips, they are not good to them dead - But when you're getting full-scale war waged on you I'm not sure what they were supposed to do.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,654
6,190
126
The idea that we have a choice or not does not matter. We generally as a society have decided that we should prevent people from harming others.

Netanyahu is harming others. He should be stopped. People that do not agree he should be stopped are going against what we have collectively decided would be good for humanity.
Should is the operative word. Netanyahu is in a position of power where the consensus around him supports his decision. What should happen is that he be remove from office by majority vote. This is the collective agreement, not commenting in a forum an indifference or even a hope he gets assassination.
It doesn't matter how they justify it in their minds. You wouldn't care about the motivation behind an intruder standing in your living room with a gun to the head of your family member. You would just pull the trigger of your gun to stop him. Well, Palestinians are your family and Netanyahu is executing them in your universe.
And he will continue to do so because I will never have gun to his head and more importantly neither will you. Is I see it all that I can do is share my opinion that I order for real peace to come into being humanity has to awake from a dream, the belief in good snd evil, the notion we have free will. We only have free will if we know who we are free from self hate.Your Jesus speak falls flat as well. If I went around genociding people
I would fully expect everyone to stop me with lethal force if necessary.
Of course. But some would just shoot you if necessary. No need for jumping up and down about how evil you are or stomping your corpse in the dirt. All that is just projected self hate. Stopped is all that is required. All the rest is mental illness.

But I can imagine myself to harbor a grudge if in shooting you I fucked up my hearing.. But then my attitude toward California silencer laws is another story. There is the belief doubt duality and where the existence of one depends on the existence of the other and knowing that the shot taken as a last resort to prevent someone acting out an intention to murder is instantly self evident., quite beyond belief or doubt.
 
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