What is stupid about the idea that launching a rocket will have have consequences?
What is stupid about the idea that launching a rocket will have have consequences?Nope, you too have a misunderstanding of the points being made. Not justifying anything. Only providing context. Israel uses such incidents as opportunities to further its strategic and military aims vs its adversaries. It doesnt give a shit about non-Jewish, non-Israeli civs killed by errant rockets but find them as useful PR to cover for their retaliations. But be stupid all you want in not figuring that out.
No, it was a string of disconnected thoughts combined with some, uhm, unique grammar.I would think its incomprehensible word salad to lightweights who cant figure the connection of a major event that killed 10s of thousands of Leb civs to todays events vis-a-vis Israel and Hezb. Its pretty much ingrained in the psyche of Hezb who view the Zionists as the epitome of evil.
Any act of violence committed by Hezb or anyone is wrong. But not equal to the wrongs of a genocide or mass killings on an industrial scale by someone else. You seem to avoid (or not understand) that complex distinction of a point repeatedly stressed throughout.No, it was a string of disconnected thoughts combined with some, uhm, unique grammar.
You can just say what Hezbollah did was wrong, you know. It's not hard!
I've never ignored it at all, you just made something up about what I think because you're so blinded by hatred of Israel that you can't understand how someone would have a more nuanced opinion.Any act of violence committed by Hezb or anyone is wrong. But not equal to the wrongs of a genocide or mass killings on an industrial scale by someone else. You seem to avoid (or not understand) that complex distinction of a point repeatedly stressed throughout.
I dont think that was the point. The point was Israel taking advantage of it when it involved non-Jewish, non-Israelis civs on non-Israeli territory to use as a pretext to ractchet up their strikes to a larger scale than they normally would.What is stupid about the idea that launching a rocket will have have consequences?
Your analogy is a false equivalence.. This is not an example of a lone wolf shooter but a policy of the government from Hamas. Hamas is the government in the Gaza strip and their charter calls for the destruction of Israel. So when you make false equivalence scenarios to gain empathy make sure there valid and truthful to why their shooting rockets at their neighbor and its not just 1 lone wolf but a government policy to destroy Israel. Now with retaliation how does Israel know the 1 individual who shot hundreds maybe thousands of rockets? As I said these terrorist are embedded in urban centers and there is no way to distinguish some terrorist from non terrorist.I take it then that if someone shoots a member of your family from within thousands of innocent other people, you would be entitled to kill them all to eliminate that one individual? Seems to me that there must be some other reason for justifying all that killing, like maybe you want their land? Can you see killing all those people just to get even with one? How morally absurd does one have to be to fall for that bullshit?
You certainly did ignore it. You can weasel your way out of a proper answer all you want, including trying to skew it to score imaginary points in your little internet battle. I do not have a "blind hatred" of Israel but do have a disgust for genocidal states wherever they may be or been, incl the Nazis. I do not think you share my disgust for Israels action and prefer to see it as a "US ally" that should be defended by shifting ALL the focus to its adversaries.I've never ignored it at all, you just made something up about what I think because you're so blinded by hatred of Israel that you can't understand how someone would have a more nuanced opinion.
But hey, what do I know, I lack your towering intellect.
If you had ever read my posts you would know that's laughably untrue.You certainly did ignore it. You can weasel your way out of a proper answer all you want, including trying to skew it to score imaginary points in your little internet battle. I do not have a "blind hatred" of Israel but do have a disgust for genocidal states wherever they may be or been, incl the Nazis. I do not think you share my disgust for Israels action and prefer to see it as a "US ally" that should be defended by shifting ALL the focus to its adversaries.
You have been largely absent for so many of the Israeli atrocities throughout the thread and your sudden re-emergence here only after Hezbs latest atrocity (which pales in comparison), one cannot help but think your moral compass is off. You HAVE been largely absent through the worst attrocities in the conflict.If you had ever read my posts you would know that's laughably untrue.
This is what I meant about you hallucinating things. You're just making up positions for other people to hold because you're blinded by bizarre hatred and aren't able to see the situation objectively. It's a very complex one and there's no good guys.
I think that was your point. What I saw in fskimopspy's comment was that launching a rocket will have consequences. There is no judgment in that. It strikes me as just a fact. You were doing the justification, not him, in my opinion. He made no comment on whether the consequences were justifiable or not. They are just going to be there.I dont think that was the point. The point was Israel taking advantage of it when it involved non-Jewish, non-Israelis civs on non-Israeli territory to use as a pretext to ractchet up their strikes to a larger scale than they normally would.
I just thought your post was ridiculous and it piqued my curiosity.You have been largely absent for so many of the Israeli atrocities throughout the thread and your sudden re-emergence here only after Hezbs latest atrocity (which pales in comparison), one cannot help but think your moral compass is off. You HAVE been largely absent through the worst attrocities in the conflict.
There are any number of reasons why that could happen if it did.You have been largely absent for so many of the Israeli atrocities throughout the thread and your sudden re-emergence here only after Hezbs latest atrocity (which pales in comparison), one cannot help but think your moral compass is off. You HAVE been largely absent through the worst attrocities in the conflict.
Launching rockets have had consequences throughout the conflict. As well as retaliatory strikes.I think that was your point. What I saw in fskimopspy's comment was that launching a rocket will have consequences. There is no judgment in that. It strikes me as just a fact. You were doing the justification, not him, in my opinion. He made no comment on whether the consequences were justifiable or not. They are just going to be there.
Yes it would be nice but in reality the terrorist set up shop in schools, hospitals, and dense urban areas... shooting rockets from those dense urban areas to Israel there is no way to avoid casualties when repercussions take place.. Yes they should not use large bombs which does damage to a large area and should utilize more precise smaller bombs. Either way civilians will be hurt and killed because Hamas is not setup in some military building but amongst civilian infrastructure imbedded with the regular population.
Right-wing protesters hurled abuse, spat on and physically attacked a number of Israeli journalists who came to report on the storming of the Sde Teiman detention center on Monday.
-snip-
Several Israeli journalists were attacked on Tuesday by a right-wing mob protesting the arrest of nine IDF reservists suspected of sexually abusing a Palestinian detainee at the Sde Teiman detention center.
Israel "Doesn't give a rats ass about non-Jewish Syrians"? At least they offer them citizenship, and even those who are not citizens are automatically considered "permanent residents" and have full rights to free healthcare, education, and can work in any occupation that they so like.Miss the point by a fucking mile. Israel doesnt give a rats ass about non-Jewish Syrian civs who by and large rejected Israeli citizenship. Nor do they give a crap about children where they have an established record of murdering in the tens of thousands. And even deliberately sniping them with headshots when seeing them walking around in so called safe zones.
According to France24, 523 people were killed in Lebanon during the current conflict, where out of them 104 were civilians (so about 20% civilian deaths) while in Israel (after the latest incident) Hezbollah killed 25 civilians (Israeli or not) and 18 IDF soldiers - so they've actually killed more civilians than they've killed IDF soldiers. So...Israel uses attacks against, errant or not, on territory not belonging to them as excuses to escalate and strike targets in heavily populated civilian areas that they may not ordinarily strike (deep into Lebanon, Beirut) without such an excuse.
I think he is seeing things in your post that are not there but I find his suspicions about Israel to have observational validity. I didn't see you defending Israel as he seems to believe. But I feel that Israel bears the weight of resolution of an eye for an eye as they hold the preponderance of power and have more capacity, therefore, to make peace. I think they are morally guilty of not pushing for that. I see Zionism as the real motivation, not the protection of the Jewish faith. I see the Palestinian people as the most pushed to an intolerable extreme regardless of centuries old antisemitism and all in the name of a Jewish state.I just thought your post was ridiculous and it piqued my curiosity.
Regardless, you hallucinating up positions for me to hold is weird and you should stop doing it. Take a deep breath.
Declaring that I made a false equivalency does not make it a false equivalency. Are you personally willing to kill thousands of innocent people to make sure you kill monsters hiding among them. If that is an immoral act for a person it is an immoral act for a state. Your personal self preservation is worthless if you become such a monster yourself. It is not a matter of it being a tough call to kill innocent people. It is not something a human being would ever do. Israel is now committing the very acts that were historically aimed at Jews. We become what we fear. They made Jews out of the Palestinians and Nazis out of themselves.Your analogy is a false equivalence.. This is not an example of a lone wolf shooter but a policy of the government from Hamas. Hamas is the government in the Gaza strip and their charter calls for the destruction of Israel. So when you make false equivalence scenarios to gain empathy make sure there valid and truthful to why their shooting rockets at their neighbor and its not just 1 lone wolf but a government policy to destroy Israel. Now with retaliation how does Israel know the 1 individual who shot hundreds maybe thousands of rockets? As I said these terrorist are embedded in urban centers and there is no way to distinguish some terrorist from non terrorist.
Every eye for an eye tit for tat has a moral rationalization for acts of revenge. The tit for tats are real. But the fact they are real and happened does not justify further tit for tat acts. Justifications are the product of language which is thought which is hatred. You probably do not see that.I would think its incomprehensible word salad to lightweights who cant figure the connection of a major event that killed 10s of thousands of Leb civs to todays events vis-a-vis Israel and Hezb. Its pretty much ingrained in the psyche of Hezb who view the Zionists as the epitome of evil.
I agree that Israel is primarily responsible for ending this conflict for the same reason as you, they hold most of the power. That being said it’s hard to make peace with groups who hold your national destruction as one of their founding principles.I think he is seeing things in your post that are not there but I find his suspicions about Israel to have observational validity. I didn't see you defending Israel as he seems to believe. But I feel that Israel bears the weight of resolution of an eye for an eye as they hold the preponderance of power and have more capacity, therefore, to make peace. I think they are morally guilty of not pushing for that. I see Zionism as the real motivation, not the protection of the Jewish faith. I see the Palestinian people as the most pushed to an intolerable extreme regardless of centuries old antisemitism and all in the name of a Jewish state.
Declaring that I made a false equivalency does not make it a false equivalency. Are you personally willing to kill thousands of innocent people to make sure you kill monsters hiding among them. If that is an immoral act for a person it is an immoral act for a state. Your personal self preservation is worthless if you become such a monster yourself. It is not a matter of it being a tough call to kill innocent people. It is not something a human being would ever do. Israel is now committing the very acts that were historically aimed at Jews. We become what we fear. They made Jews out of the Palestinians and Nazis out of themselves.
The Pals have unwittingly put a huge burden on Lebanon by their sheer numbers which has been very politically polarizing to the Lebs. The Lebs are not obligated in giving them citizenship (also a huge politically charged issue which would upset Leb demographics and weaken the Christian voting block). And which would also basically amount to surrendering their right of return to Palestine as enshrined by UN res 194. Israelis would love that the Lebs give them citizenship.Israel "Doesn't give a rats ass about non-Jewish Syrians"? At least they offer them citizenship, and even those who are not citizens are automatically considered "permanent residents" and have full rights to free healthcare, education, and can work in any occupation that they so like.
How about we compare that to how Palestinians are treated in Lebanon. Palestinians (about 200,000-300,000) in Lebanon don't actually have a right to citizenship even though some of them have been there more than 50+ years (some since 48). Way to care for your Palestinian brothers. That's a really great, and humane way to treat them. Indeed, according to the Wikipedia article (i've tl;dred it, you're welcome to read the article to see that I'm not gaslighting you):
Most Palestinians in Lebanon are stateless. They are not entitled to Lebanese Citizenship, though most were born in Lebanon and irrespective of how many generations their families have lived in Lebanon.
Most Palestinians in Lebanon do not have Lebanese citizenship and therefore do not have Lebanese identity cards, which would entitle them to government services, such as health and education. They are also legally barred from owning property or entering a list of desirable occupations.
Palestinians in Lebanon also have to heavily rely on the UNRWA for basic services such as healthcare and education, because they are not granted much access to the social services the Lebanese government provides.
In 2019, Minister of Labor Camille Abousleiman instituted a law that Palestinian workers must obtain a work permit, under the justification that Palestinians are foreigners in Lebanon despite their long-standing presence. Palestinians are in a 'grey area' of Lebanon's labor laws: although they are categorized as foreigners, they are excluded from the rights foreigners enjoy, and their rights as refugees are not fairly protected.
Such a great way to treat people that were born and raised in your country, and some that have just been living there for 70+ years.
According to France24, 523 people were killed in Lebanon during the current conflict, where out of them 104 were civilians (so about 20% civilian deaths) while in Israel (after the latest incident) Hezbollah killed 25 civilians (Israeli or not) and 18 IDF soldiers - so they've actually killed more civilians than they've killed IDF soldiers. So...
Ahhh context you say. So they aren’t responsible because Israel does it eh? Sure. 🙄🙄🙄🙄On ignore you go. So much hatred not worth getting involved in discussion.Nope, you too have a misunderstanding of the points being made. Not justifying anything. Only providing context. Israel uses such incidents as opportunities to further its strategic and military aims vs its adversaries. It doesnt give a shit about non-Jewish, non-Israeli civs killed by errant rockets but find them as useful PR to cover for their retaliations. But be stupid all you want in not figuring that out.
Hatred of genocide and disgust with genocidally inclined states is I would think forgivable. Too bad you hold no such compunctions and vent at those who do.Ahhh context you say. So they aren’t responsible because Israel does it eh? Sure. 🙄🙄🙄🙄On ignore you go. So much hatred not worth getting involved in discussion.
They are not in a position to demand the unrealistic destruction of Israel (which they KNOW as unrealistic and unproductive). In fact they sent out messages to the US over the years they would accept going back to the 1967 borders with an end to hostilities with Israel. Sadly they were ignored.I agree that Israel is primarily responsible for ending this conflict for the same reason as you, they hold most of the power. That being said it’s hard to make peace with groups who hold your national destruction as one of their founding principles.
Following his military service, Amir was nominated by the religious-Zionist youth movement Bnei Akiva to teach Judaism in Riga, Latvia, as part of the Nativorganization.[4]I agree that Israel is primarily responsible for ending this conflict for the same reason as you, they hold most of the power. That being said it’s hard to make peace with groups who hold your national destruction as one of their founding principles.
I would disagree that Zionism is the primary obstacle here, I think the problem is religion. If you took the whole holy land thing out of this I think there is a very clear deal to be done but extremists don’t want to do that. After all, the most powerful promising path to peace was derailed when Rabin was assassinated by a Jewish religious extremist.
You make a strong argument. Better for 200-300 thousand Palestinians who "unwittingly put a huge burden" (In a country of over 5 million people), some of them going back about 80 years in Lebanon (so some of them are probably third or fourth generation born in Lebanon), to go without voting rights and limited access to healthcare, education, jobs, and options to own property because it would weaken the Christian voting block and "would make Israel happy". Clearly, it's Israel "that doesn't give a rats ass about non Jews", not Lebanon who treats the Palestinians living there for more than half a century like shit including adding relatively recent legislation that only added more hardships on them.The Pals have unwittingly put a huge burden on Lebanon by their sheer numbers which has been very politically polarizing to the Lebs. The Lebs are not obligated in giving them citizenship (also a huge politically charged issue which would upset Leb demographics and weaken the Christian voting block). And which would also basically amount to surrendering their right of return to Palestine as enshrined by UN res 194. Israelis would love that the Lebs give them citizenship.