I did read your post. You basically responded to a point I never made.Well, if you had read my post closely, my point is in spite of Hamas being a terrorist organization, they have way more credibility in terms of the numbers. There's actual evidence. So, anyone leaning on taking those numbers seriously would have a standing. So you can't both sides the stats in this specific situation, my guy
Hmmmm, your point doesn't sound like "sound" common sense to me. You're basically ignoring the historical data and are dismissive of it. Yes, a bad person/character can make a valid and true statement. So "common sense" and history says Hamas' numbers do carry some weight. The opposite seems to be true for the Israeli government. But I have read your messages. "Both sides" seems to be your position 😛I did read your post. You basically responded to a point I never made.
You definitely can. In fact amusingly enough one person earlier tried to defend the credibility of Hamas’ numbers by saying Israel reported similar ones, lol.
My point is utter common sense and it’s baffling that it even needs to be explained. Entities involved in wars lie a lot so don’t take what they say at face value.
Good propaganda intersperses true statements with lies. If you look at Russian propaganda they say lots of true things, and they do so expressly because that makes their lies more credible.Hmmmm, your point doesn't sound like "sound" common sense to me. You're basically ignoring the historical data and are dismissive of it. Yes, a bad person/character can make a valid and true statement. So "common sense" and history says Hamas' numbers do carry some weight. The opposite seems to be true for the Israeli government. But I have read your messages. "Both sides" seems to be your position 😛
You should hear about this decades long Israeli propaganda campaign about their apartheid state and various crimes against humanity over the years. They stand up to the Russians just fine. They have plenty of incentive to lie, they are holy warriors on a mission to create their ancient promised land, fuck the natives, they are subhuman. It's been going on for a while. You should read about it.Good propaganda intersperses true statements with lies. If you look at Russian propaganda they say lots of true things, and they do so expressly because that makes their lies more credible.
Bad people say true things all the time. Good people often lie. None of that changes basic common sense. For example as I mentioned before if you believe Ukraine’s casualty counts for Russia you are terribly naive. Russia lies even more of course, but neither are trustworthy and that should be expected.
‘Be skeptical of people with an incentive to lie’ is something you should apply to your entire life.
What? You either give some credibility to the numbers or not. It has been proven that they *could* be somewhat relied upon for a rough figure so why wouldn't you entertain them as opposed to writing them off, right off the bat? The reason I'm insisting is that ignoring them completely dismisses the Palestinians' conditions over there.Good propaganda intersperses true statements with lies. If you look at Russian propaganda they say lots of true things, and they do so expressly because that makes their lies more credible.
Bad people say true things all the time. Good people often lie. None of that changes basic common sense. For example as I mentioned before if you believe Ukraine’s casualty counts for Russia you are terribly naive. Russia lies even more of course, but neither are trustworthy and that should be expected.
‘Be skeptical of people with an incentive to lie’ is something you should apply to your entire life.
Right. I don’t give credibility to numbers from people with an incentive to lie.What? You either give some credibility to the numbers or not. It has been proven that they *could* be somewhat relied upon for a rough figure so why wouldn't you entertain them as opposed to writing them off, right off the bat? The reason I'm insisting is that ignoring them completely dismisses the Palestinians' conditions over there.
And sure, it's good to be skeptical but a skeptic takes into account all available data, sir. Anyway, I realize that your position is unshakeable regardless of any evidence. So, I bid you good day
Right. I don’t give credibility to numbers from people with an incentive to lie.
You are correct though, I came to this opinion taking into account available data.
Again, this is incredible how people are arguing this.Every country has an incentive to propagandize/lie. So you're arguing you don't give credibility to numbers from any country?
Are you arguing the numbers are too high? That seems highly unrealistic. The 'official' numbers seem really low for the amount of visible destruction.
It's why I don't believe 1,200 people were killed on Oct 7th. 😛Again, this is incredible how people are arguing this.
I think we both agree Hamas has reason to lie. Therefore we don’t take their numbers uncritically. Ukraine has reasons to lie. Therefore we don’t take their numbers uncritically. Russia has reason to lie. Therefore we don’t take their numbers uncritically.
I don’t understand what you don’t understand.
But yes, my entire point is countries engaged in a war lie a lot so don’t trust what they say. This is common sense.
I think a lot of people were killed on 10/7. I also think a lot of people have been killed in Gaza. I don’t trust either belligerent to give me the real total.It's why I don't believe 1,200 people were killed on Oct 7th. 😛
I understand what you are saying. You can’t trust anything. Wolfe made the comment that Israel was bound to respond and did as any country would, but to me that is no excuse for the disproportional slaughter. Israel is using genocide to end the threat to Zionism. They do not want peace.I find it very funny that despite the fact that I think Netanyahu is a war criminal who should be in prison I’m somehow defending Israel by saying ‘don’t believe everything you read’.
Bananas.
I agree, Israel’s response is disproportionate and wrong. None of that has to do with my point of ‘be skeptical of people with an incentive to lie’I understand what you are saying. You can’t trust anything. Wolfe made the comment that Israel was bound to respond and did as any country would, but to me that is no excuse for the disproportional slaughter. Israel is using genocide to end the threat to Zionism. They do not want peace.
People are profoundly wedded to their teams. I think in any context where one’s sense of self worth is tied to some external identification you can expect this to happen. All the killing on both sides just serves as effective incendiary. It takes some pretty profound rationalizations to justify slaughter of innocents. The greater the attachment to the irrational the less common sense can prevail, I think.I agree, Israel’s response is disproportionate and wrong. None of that has to do with my point of ‘be skeptical of people with an incentive to lie’
What’s funny is in almost any other context people would accept this as common sense.