Not like what is about to happen. Hamas has probably stockpiled food and water in tunnels, etc. Probably have gennies, diesel fuel and maybe propane tanks. The civilians, what is it 2M! - There will be no dogs alive in Gaza in a few weeks.Gaza was already under siege, has been for decades.
That's really all any of us have been saying.IfNotNow, a progressive American Jewish group that opposes Israeli apartheid, said that while “we watch the unfolding horrors with heartbreak and dread for our loved ones ― Israelis and Palestinians alike” ― the attack by Palestinian fighters was a result of decades of oppression.
“We cannot and will not say today’s actions by Palestinian militants are unprovoked,” the group said in a statement on Saturday. “Every day under Israel’s system of apartheid is a provocation. The strangling siege on Gaza is a provocation. Settlers terrorizing entire Palestinian villages, soldiers raiding and demolishing Palestinian homes, murdering Palestinians in the streets, Israeli ministers calling for genocide and expulsion.”
“These are the provocations of the most extreme right wing government in Israel’s history and an emboldened fascist movement escalating this crisis across the land.”
Media Calls The Attack On Israel Unprovoked. Experts Say That’s Historically Inaccurate.
As the violence between Israel and Hamas rages on, experts point to the decadeslong apartheid against Palestinians that led to the recent attacks.www.huffpost.com
That's been discussed.I have no evidence but I feel in my bones that Putin orchestrated this to divert attention.
Says the Hamas apologist.
I was kind of out of this before now, and if they would have attacked military targets, and infrastructure, I would have considered that reasonable.
But Hamas butchered over 250 people at a music festival on purpose, and butchered civilians and captured more for later butchering.
I'm 100% pro Israel now.
I consider all of Palestine a pro-terrorist group.
If the goal of Hamas was to turn the world against Palestine. Congrats it worked on me.
There is no understanding the murder of women and children and many of those posts are explicitly or indirectly trying to justify it. nice try moving the goalposts of context once you are called out including your own posts. There is no understanding period. That is sick.You seem to be confusing "justifying" with "understanding." Go through your list and remove all the ones that are simply explaining why Hamas does what it does without actually condoning what Hamas does, and just keep the ones that explicitly say what Hamas did to civilians is good or whatever.
I'm sure there are extremist Palestinians that don't want Israel to exist but most Palestinians would be happy to have a reasonable solution.
Israel has been completely unfair at the negotiation table doing nothing when the Palestinian organizations in the West Bank put recognizing Israel on the table. Israel has wanted no solution they just push settlements and harsher and harsher attacks on civilians in Palestine because they don't want a solution.
Are you against the majority of the Israeli government, Not necessarily it's citizens, but the government for not being interested in any kind of real solution except the total state of israel?
Or you just feel one way for one side and you have different standards for the other.
What action provokes killing children? Or foreigners? Tell me exactly what Israel did to Palestinians that justified the killing and parading of the corpse of a German girl?That's really all any of us have been saying.
That's been discussed.
that is not what you all have been implying and you Callously asked why a music festival should be held in the desert not under Israeli control. That is clearly a parallel to if she didn’t dress like that she wouldn’t be raped. UghThat's really all any of us have been saying.
That's been discussed.
Where are they? ...Where are they protesting Hamas total stranglehold on their lives. They need to rise up and make those voices heard. LOUD and CLEAR. It may cost some of them their lives, but it has to start somewhere with other Arab nations coming to their aide/side. These nations need to tell Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran to fuck off.
I think there are Palestinians who want to put recognizing Israel "on the table" as you say. But they are either stamped out or overruled, or possibly killed for even the notion of Israels right to exist. Israel will take care of the extremists. I don't really know any "Palestinian orgs" that have even been serious about recognizing Israel. And when they pop up, they are eradicated by Hamas. All they have is authoritarian terrorist groups run by Hamas. Do you think the Israeli's are going to come to ANY negotiating table after this? That would show weakness. Hmas and the like only bring pain and misery to the innocents.
NO! I don't think the Israeli government is interested in solutions on giving back the land. I think that ship has sailed. And in the long term. That sucks. The Israeli government has helped foster the conditions in Gaza - in effect an open-air prison that offers only cradle-to-grave hatred for Jews that they blame for the situation. Hamas will be destroyed, but Iran or Russia will most likely fund its replacement. Where does the change come from? I don't know.
I don't know the answers to such a complex problem, and you and I won't agree on everything pertaining to this, but that doesn't mean I favor one or the other in this conflict.
Just off the top of my head...I would say the change must come from some change in tactics by the Israeli's. Israel can't just smash Hamas and withdraw from Gaza again. But they can’t completely pull out of Gaza either, not without letting this exact situation fester again. Again ... Hamas only brings misery to ordinary peaceful Pals.
Israel needs to give Gazans something to lose. Thousands of Gazans work in Israel. That’s great. That’s something that improves the lives of individual Gazans, and links their destiny to Israel. They need more of that, and they need a Palestinian regime in power in Gaza that recognizes that this is valuable to the Gazan people and something worth protecting.
And once they put those people in power who want peace and recognize Israeli existence, Israel is going to need to be ready to stick around and defend them from the extremists. People who weren’t even all that friendly to Israel but were pragmatic enough to work with Israel were already in charge in Gaza after the last Israeli withdrawal, but, again Hamas took over and strung the old government up from balconies. So once Israel establishes a friendly regime, they need to protect it.
IMO ... The reason that Hamas hasn’t previously been destroyed is that Israel did not have the stomach for the sort of lengthy occupation required. Hamas just made an occupation the lesser evil. The idea of a “good outcome for all” to this situation sailed out the door when Hamas butchered what may yet turn out to be thousands of Israeli civilians. Israel’s top priority now will be to ensure that Hamas is never capable of such an act ever again. Even if the upper echelons of Israeli military intelligence, who know far better than anyone on this board what is required to eliminate Hamas, unanimously say “no it’s not possible”, the result is the same. There is a going to mass occupation of the Gaza Strip by the IDF and an attempt to destroy Hamas. Nothing else is an option politically.
Once again, confusing understanding with condoning. Hey man, you seem determined not to grasp the point or realize you are doing exactly what you accuse everyone else of doing. As you've already said, you do you.There is no understanding the murder of women and children and many of those posts are explicitly or indirectly trying to justify it. nice try moving the goalposts of context once you are called out including your own posts. There is no understanding period. That is sick.
For the record, I was referring to what is about to happen in Gaza.Here you go dans69
Stop projecting onto me your behavior. You asked for quotes and I got them for you and others have pointed out the truth of my statements about those quotes but you just repeat disproven nonsense. Keep moving those goalposts. are you saying you can understand why Hamas would decapitate a 7yo? If so, you are sickOnce again, confusing understanding with condoning. Hey man, you seem determined not to grasp the point or realize you are doing exactly what you accuse everyone else of doing. As you've already said, you do you.
Israel will absolutely use this event to perpetuate their horrors.For the record, I was referring to what is about to happen in Gaza.
and if you don't think that Israel is about to commit some ethnic cleansing, I think your being naive.
What Israel is going to do in response to what Hamas did does not justify what Hamas did.
What does that even mean? Roll eyesI think you're swimming in the wrong pool, mate.
I'm a Hamas sympathizer? Please quote me being so in any way shape or form.
Thanks for spelling out how you have decided to become an ignoramus on the actual reality of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, you seem very proud of it, and we do appreciate when people who want to be ignorant state it out loud, like you have here. It's not often we have people just post HEY I DECIDED TO BE TOTALLY INSANE ABOUT THIS TOPIC GOING FORWARD AND NOT LIVE IN REALITY!
I understand the "logic" behind what they do. I do not agree with their "logic" to the point that I don't think it qualifies as logic which is why I put it in quotes. You seem to think that when people say they understand something, that means they think it makes sense. That isn't always the case, and certainly is not the case here.Stop projecting onto me your behavior. You asked for quotes and I got them for you and others have pointed out the truth of my statements about those quotes but you just repeat disproven nonsense. Keep moving those goalposts. are you saying you can understand why Hamas would decapitate a 7yo? If so, you are sick
we will agree to disagree. It doesn’t matter in the end. The innocents on both sides will continue to suffer regardless of our pointless forum debate 🥹I understand the "logic" behind what they do. I do not agree with their "logic" to the point that I don't think it qualifies as logic which is why I put it in quotes. You seem to think that when people say they understand something, that means they think it makes sense. That isn't always the case, and certainly is not the case here.
It's the same as if I said I understand why Israel feels the need to slaughter civilians in response but think that does not excuse it. You know, the same thing it seems you think.
It's always great to see people emotionally ranting in the wake of a tragedy. Humanity makes its best decisions in this state. Fucking right wingers shot up black churches and Jewish synagogues, we should slaughter all right wingers.All I see you doing is playing the "both-sides" game with depraved butchers massacring's children at a concert.
They massacred citizens of the world. Just on the radio were anguished parents telling of horrifying calls of the last terrifying moments before their children were murdered by gunfire. Those stories are going to play out around the world.
I don't want to see any more Aid for the Terrorist State, Palestine, who's only export seems to be depravity.
BOTH SIDES are right-wing authoritarian religious nuts. Yeah, I said it. Both Sides are to fucking blame for this.
Said it better than I ever could.Cornered animals tend to bite anything they can bite, whether it's the hand of the exterminator or a friendly child looking to give it a pet. Some might see the cornered animal as the Palestinians living in ghettos. Some might see the cornered animal as the Israelis living in the middle of the Arab Muslim world.
Funny, that.
Anyone who is surprised at any of this, or wondering "why" the terrorists did this, or "why" Israel will kill 10x as many civilians as a "justified" response" must not pay attention to the big picture. Y'all let your feelings get in the way of any objective observation.
This was always going to happen given the trajectory of the past 110+ years.
Israel is a right-wing authoritarian country that is slowly pushing refugee second-class citizens off land and building "settlements". Anyone who understands that "settlements" are another word for "colonies", and that Gaza is just a concentration camp, or if you'd prefer, a "reservation", isn't confused about the trajectory. Again, slow-motion genocide, no matter how much that hurts your feelings that a "modern Western representative democracy" "ally" is committing it.
Many right-wing authoritarian people living in those concentration camps, reservations, etc., are going to develop the kind of hatred that results in...wait for it...terrorism. That is, between their right-wing ideology and their right-wing religion, they are going to believe that if they kill themselves killing their oppressors, then they get to go hang out with whatever version of Sky Wizard they've self-abused themselves into believing.
Reading the back-and-forth in this very thread is tragically hilarious.
That anyone who believes Israel should "flatten" Gaza is justified in that thought is tragic. You. Are. Calling. For. Ethnic. Cleansing. Not one single 5 year old murdered in Gaza has committed any crime. Oh, their parents might have, so it's justified in killing that 5 year old? Get the fuck out.
That anyone who believes Hamas has a right to murder Israeli citizens, whether soldiers or civilians, is tragic, although to be fair, I'm having a hard time finding anyone supporting Hamas in this thread. What I mostly see is the most objective observation that is possible, which is to say that as long as Israel continues committing slow-motion genocide, then they're going to have to periodically deal with terrorists murdering anyone they can because that is literally all they can do as a political weapon.
Neither side is the fucking good guy. Pretending that one side is better than the other is your unadulterated feelings getting in the way of any kind of objective observation.
BOTH SIDES are right-wing authoritarian religious nuts. Yeah, I said it. Both Sides are to fucking blame for this.
The US should have told Israel 60 years ago that if they want any more money and weapons to kill Palestinians, then they need to work out an actual political solution...because otherwise, THIS HAS BEEN AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE THE RESULT.
Yes, dropping white phosphorus on civilians is OK if Israel does it. Paragliding in go karts and killing civilians isn't OK if Palestinians do it.More "BOTH SIDES" in the wake of one of the most depraved acts in decades...
I agree with all this except I don't feel bad for the soldiers. You know, the ones who would be gleefully attacking Palestinian civilians right now if they were not dead because they're just following orders.Cornered animals tend to bite anything they can bite, whether it's the hand of the exterminator or a friendly child looking to give it a pet. Some might see the cornered animal as the Palestinians living in ghettos. Some might see the cornered animal as the Israelis living in the middle of the Arab Muslim world.
Funny, that.
Anyone who is surprised at any of this, or wondering "why" the terrorists did this, or "why" Israel will kill 10x as many civilians as a "justified" response" must not pay attention to the big picture. Y'all let your feelings get in the way of any objective observation.
This was always going to happen given the trajectory of the past 110+ years.
Israel is a right-wing authoritarian country that is slowly pushing refugee second-class citizens off land and building "settlements". Anyone who understands that "settlements" are another word for "colonies", and that Gaza is just a concentration camp, or if you'd prefer, a "reservation", isn't confused about the trajectory. Again, slow-motion genocide, no matter how much that hurts your feelings that a "modern Western representative democracy" "ally" is committing it.
Many right-wing authoritarian people living in those concentration camps, reservations, etc., are going to develop the kind of hatred that results in...wait for it...terrorism. That is, between their right-wing ideology and their right-wing religion, they are going to believe that if they kill themselves killing their oppressors, then they get to go hang out with whatever version of Sky Wizard they've self-abused themselves into believing.
Reading the back-and-forth in this very thread is tragically hilarious.
That anyone who believes Israel should "flatten" Gaza is justified in that thought is tragic. You. Are. Calling. For. Ethnic. Cleansing. Not one single 5 year old murdered in Gaza has committed any crime. Oh, their parents might have, so it's justified in killing that 5 year old? Get the fuck out.
That anyone who believes Hamas has a right to murder Israeli citizens, whether soldiers or civilians, is tragic, although to be fair, I'm having a hard time finding anyone supporting Hamas in this thread. What I mostly see is the most objective observation that is possible, which is to say that as long as Israel continues committing slow-motion genocide, then they're going to have to periodically deal with terrorists murdering anyone they can because that is literally all they can do as a political weapon.
Neither side is the fucking good guy. Pretending that one side is better than the other is your unadulterated feelings getting in the way of any kind of objective observation.
BOTH SIDES are right-wing authoritarian religious nuts. Yeah, I said it. Both Sides are to fucking blame for this.
The US should have told Israel 60 years ago that if they want any more money and weapons to kill Palestinians, then they need to work out an actual political solution...because otherwise, THIS HAS BEEN AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE THE RESULT.
Except they aren't 'animals', they're people, that somehow cannot come to a peaceful resolution. It's giving too much of a pass to call them cornered animals, it implies they have no choice. I generally agree with the rest of your post however. That whole region is pretty fucked in the head.Cornered animals tend to bite anything they can bite, whether it's the hand of the exterminator or a friendly child looking to give it a pet. Some might see the cornered animal as the Palestinians living in ghettos. Some might see the cornered animal as the Israelis living in the middle of the Arab Muslim world.
Funny, that.