Israel: We Are At War

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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
I dont think this would ever happen, but reveals how typical, extremist zealots in govt think.

Great, some Likud nutter in the Knesset. And, listed as an "Israeli Official". BS Headline. Israel knows that even the US would have to walk away if nukes were used. This is unrealistic babble.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,707
5,441
136
Last edited:

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,707
5,441
136
Understand. I would normally post original links.
Here is the full hearing from the PBS Youtube page.
that is a bit fustrating, trying to find the minute marker. Will let you know if I find it.

edit:
I cannot find it, the above video flashes to the reporter, but the pbs video doesn't show that on the time line. The X video doesn't let me click around and search for other cues.

edit 2:
After watching the X video you linked a bit more I think it is fake.

I have not watched the entirety of the pbs video, but the overlays and skips, and focus on the questioner in the X video don't match anything I saw in the pbs video. The official video does not seem to flash to any of the questioners. It stays focused on the spokesperson the entire time.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136

his actual statement and not a fox/nypost opinion of what they think he said, no where does he say he saw these images

/edit i was going on an earlier statement he had put out, no he definitely said he saw it, i believe the video is timed right but if not, just past the 17:00 mark


Yeah. We can put at least one argument to bed. Biden was clearly outraged at what he saw and visibly angry. With 100% backing by the US - Gaza is going to be worse than battles in Fallujah and Ramadi.

From reports I've been watching on YouTube, many, and probably most Palestinians do not want to evacuate. This is their home and rightly so.

HAMAS appears to want a bloody conflict. I’m at a loss to fully understand their thinking. What kind of thinking would lead HAMAS to believe anything good could come out of this?
 
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emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,782
1,540
126
that is a bit fustrating, trying to find the minute marker. Will let you know if I find it.

edit:
I cannot find it, the above video flashes to the reporter, but the pbs video doesn't show that on the time line. The X video doesn't let me click around and search for other cues.

edit 2:
After watching the X video you linked a bit more I think it is fake.

I have not watched the entirety of the pbs video, but the overlays and skips, and focus on the questioner in the X video don't match anything I saw in the pbs video. The official video does not seem to flash to any of the questioners. It stays focused on the spokesperson the entire time.

Verified the video. It's legit.
Here is the transcript of the presser from state.gov. Went through each part of the video(the jump-cuts) and picked out keywords to search the transcript. Then read the transcript while listening to the video. Matched up. The transcript misses/doesn't pick up parts of the question's from the reporters though (cross talk). But those parts seem consistent as well. It's good these reporters are asking those questions.
 
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Roger Wilco

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2017
3,955
5,826
136
I wonder if the amphetamine (Captagon) epidemic has found its way into Hamas, driving them to new extremes.

Or maybe this is all a natural progression for them.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,576
7,823
136
The people of Gaza are oppressed by circumstances created by multiple nation states in the region INCLUDING ISRAEL!...And Egypt and Lebanon, they’ve certainly helped bottle up Gaza and they like having Gaza as a thorn in Israel's side. When Israel was giving the Sinai back to Egypt back in the 1970’s they offered to throw in Gaza as part of the deal. The Egyptians didn’t want it. Hamas and other terrorist organizations do not want Palestinians to leave Gaza. They want them to be victims. The main point of many players in the mid-east is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Moving Palestinians or even helping them does not play into this long-game for them.

Hamas knows this and intentionally behaves in such a way that these sorts of measures are seen as necessary. Even this attack is calculated specifically to be as heinous as possible and ensure that Israel responds. That’s been Hamas SOP since 2007 when they took power. Unlike Fatah who are in power in the West Bank, they have absolutely no interest in negotiating a way forward. Palestinian suffering directly benefits Hamas so long as they can keep anger directed at Israel rather than themselves. The whole point of the attacks on music festival goers, children and other civilians was to provoke a huge response and get lots of Palestinian civilians killed. The leaders of Hamas and those that enable them don’t give a shit about their own civilians; they want full and complete control over the territory.

These circumstances have created a breeding ground for hate-filled militants. Hamas has never had ANY incentive to support economic development, since that would cut into their recruiting. Things like travel restrictions only make those circumstances worse. Israel has leveled the place. Israel must take the - you broke it ... you bought it approach. They were the ones who helped create the Gaza Strip festering pot of rage and suffering to begin with, so once they wipe out Hamas, they should fucking fix the place, what was termed the world’s largest open-air prison.

It helps that Hamas leader...what's-his-name, is bravely leading from fucking Qatar. lol. So it’s not like HE has personal stake in the matter. At least until he suffers a tragic fall out a window, or he is hit by a “stray bullet” fired from a yacht a mile out to sea. Being in Qatar will not shield this guy from Israel.

Israel has had a policy of containment, hoping Hamas will burn out or mellow over time. Clearly that hasn’t happened, and Hamas has proven they cannot be contained. And, containment imposes its own cost, embittering the lives of Palestinians and ensuring they stick with Hamas.

At this point de-escalation with Hamas is impossible. They are most likely going to be destroyed as we know it today. But once that’s done, and Fatah who runs the West Bank or someone else is put in charge, Israel must ... A, protect them from a resurgent Hamas or whatever other extremist groups pop up, with military force if necessary, and B, ensure they’re actually able to improve the lives of Gazans who are still left or decide to come back, so they have something to lose by going back to Hamas.

But, the sad reality is, I think it’s absurd to suggest that Palestinians could realistically attain a non -“sucky” degree of rights and freedom if only they’d get rid of Hamas. The Israeli government has made it very clear that they have no interest in that potential future, and in fact have expansionist objectives that directly conflict with it. But it's their only real option to try get out from under Hamas and those enablers, There is no other way forward and the world should hold Israel accountable.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,663
4,137
136
Yeah. We can put at least one argument to bed. Biden was clearly outraged at what he saw and visibly angry. With 100% backing by the US - Gaza is going to be worse than battles in Fallujah and Ramadi.

From reports I've been watching on YouTube, many, and probably most Palestinians do not want to evacuate. This is their home and rightly so.

HAMAS appears to want a bloody conflict. I’m at a loss to fully understand their thinking. What kind of thinking would lead HAMAS to believe anything good could come out of this?
probably hoping to draw Iran in or something when Israel escalates it too far.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,590
7,650
136
HAMAS appears to want a bloody conflict. I’m at a loss to fully understand their thinking. What kind of thinking would lead HAMAS to believe anything good could come out of this?
Historically, Palestinian deaths lead the world into condemning Israel. If that becomes strong enough, Israel would face a blockade. Israel would die.
That is the terrorist game theory. If they kill enough of their own people, the world shall reward them with victory.
^ Those voices will only grow louder, and eventually wield more force. To the benefit of the Palestinian people, and ultimately, Hamas.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,707
5,441
136
Verified the video. It's legit.
Here is the transcript of the presser from state.gov. Went through each part of the video(the jump-cuts) and picked out keywords to search the transcript. Then read the transcript while listening to the video. Matched up. The transcript misses/doesn't pick up parts of the question's from the reporters though (cross talk). But those parts seem consistent as well. It's good these reporters are asking those questions.
That is why the X video is fake, the questions and the cuts.

The real video does not cut to the reporters at all. You can hear them ask their questions, but the camera never cuts to them.

They are inserting their own propaganda content into real content. The X video cuts to reporters making dramatic statements gestures etc. The real video never does. In fact, the room lighting in the room doesn't even look like the X video cuts to the reporters.


Its a fake video. A well done fake, but fake. They inserted their own content into real content, with carefully done cuts. He is responding to questions, just not to what is being presented in the video as to what he is responding to.
 
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Roger Wilco

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2017
3,955
5,826
136
Per the CIA, nearly 40% of the Gaza’s Strip’s population is under the age of 15.

ABC—In response to the assault, Israel on Monday carried out a "complete siege," cutting off power and blocking food and water from being delivered to the Gaza Strip -- where, according to the CIA, nearly 40% of the population of 2 million is under the age of 15.

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Internat...aught-israel-gaza-conflict/story?id=103873428
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,700
25,034
136
Per the CIA, nearly 40% of the Gaza’s Strip’s population is under the age of 15.

ABC—In response to the assault, Israel on Monday carried out a "complete siege," cutting off power and blocking food and water from being delivered to the Gaza Strip -- where, according to the CIA, nearly 40% of the population of 2 million is under the age of 15.

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Internat...aught-israel-gaza-conflict/story?id=103873428
When you are basically in a prison not allowed to do much of anything people,have lots of time for fucking.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,707
5,441
136
Per the CIA, nearly 40% of the Gaza’s Strip’s population is under the age of 15.

ABC—In response to the assault, Israel on Monday carried out a "complete siege," cutting off power and blocking food and water from being delivered to the Gaza Strip -- where, according to the CIA, nearly 40% of the population of 2 million is under the age of 15.

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Internat...aught-israel-gaza-conflict/story?id=103873428
Israel is walking right into it.

stupid stupid stupid.


Hamas is an Iranian proxy and Iran is the only one benefiting here. Right when Israel was about to normalize relations with its neighbors. It is so obvious. Just stop and think for a moment.

Who gave Hamas the rockets? Who paid their salaries? Wake up Israel, Gaza isn't your real enemy.
 
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Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,707
5,441
136
I think Egypt is very angry.

The tunnels were done on a wink wink bribe bribe and then all of a sudden this happened and Egypt has massive egg in the face. Everyone is wondering if Hamas's arms came in through the tunnels from Egypt.

All of the tunnels are shut down. Egypt is clearly trying to distance itself from any responsibility from Hamas's actions.

Whatever happens, I don't think Gaza is going to see any relief from Egypt.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,700
25,034
136
Israel is walking right into it.

stupid stupid stupid.


Hamas is an Iranian proxy and Iran is the only one benefiting here. Right when Israel was about to normalize relations with its neighbors. It is so obvious. Just stop and think for a moment.

Who gave Hamas the rockets? Who paid their salaries? Wake up Israel, Gaza isn't your real enemy.
Hamas makes the rockets. They are really crude.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,707
5,441
136
Hamas makes the rockets. They are really crude.
some of them yes. But not all.

“One of the members can be seen with an uncommon F-7 HE-Frag rocket, originally produced in #NorthKorea (#DPRK).”'
RFA was not able to conclusively determine if the weapon was North Korean, but its shape closely resembles the F-7 as depicted in the North Korean Small Arms and Light Weapons Recognition Guide published in May by the Geneva-based Small Arms Survey research project.

Experts said that Palestinians have historically used North Korean weapons, which may have been first purchased by Iran or Syria, and then smuggled to the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip, circumventing an Israeli-Egyptian blockade that has been in place since 2007.


edit:
It seems Hamas is also firing the Iranian Fajr-5 rocket. Which they are definitely not making domestically.
 
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GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,067
7,492
136
The people of Gaza are oppressed by circumstances created by multiple nation states in the region INCLUDING ISRAEL!...And Egypt and Lebanon, they’ve certainly helped bottle up Gaza and they like having Gaza as a thorn in Israel's side. When Israel was giving the Sinai back to Egypt back in the 1970’s they offered to throw in Gaza as part of the deal. The Egyptians didn’t want it. Hamas and other terrorist organizations do not want Palestinians to leave Gaza. They want them to be victims. The main point of many players in the mid-east is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Moving Palestinians or even helping them does not play into this long-game for them.

Hamas knows this and intentionally behaves in such a way that these sorts of measures are seen as necessary. Even this attack is calculated specifically to be as heinous as possible and ensure that Israel responds. That’s been Hamas SOP since 2007 when they took power. Unlike Fatah who are in power in the West Bank, they have absolutely no interest in negotiating a way forward. Palestinian suffering directly benefits Hamas so long as they can keep anger directed at Israel rather than themselves. The whole point of the attacks on music festival goers, children and other civilians was to provoke a huge response and get lots of Palestinian civilians killed. The leaders of Hamas and those that enable them don’t give a shit about their own civilians; they want full and complete control over the territory.

These circumstances have created a breeding ground for hate-filled militants. Hamas has never had ANY incentive to support economic development, since that would cut into their recruiting. Things like travel restrictions only make those circumstances worse. Israel has leveled the place. Israel must take the - you broke it ... you bought it approach. They were the ones who helped create the Gaza Strip festering pot of rage and suffering to begin with, so once they wipe out Hamas, they should fucking fix the place, what was termed the world’s largest open-air prison.

It helps that Hamas leader...what's-his-name, is bravely leading from fucking Qatar. lol. So it’s not like HE has personal stake in the matter. At least until he suffers a tragic fall out a window, or he is hit by a “stray bullet” fired from a yacht a mile out to sea. Being in Qatar will not shield this guy from Israel.

Israel has had a policy of containment, hoping Hamas will burn out or mellow over time. Clearly that hasn’t happened, and Hamas has proven they cannot be contained. And, containment imposes its own cost, embittering the lives of Palestinians and ensuring they stick with Hamas.

At this point de-escalation with Hamas is impossible. They are most likely going to be destroyed as we know it today. But once that’s done, and Fatah who runs the West Bank or someone else is put in charge, Israel must ... A, protect them from a resurgent Hamas or whatever other extremist groups pop up, with military force if necessary, and B, ensure they’re actually able to improve the lives of Gazans who are still left or decide to come back, so they have something to lose by going back to Hamas.

But, the sad reality is, I think it’s absurd to suggest that Palestinians could realistically attain a non -“sucky” degree of rights and freedom if only they’d get rid of Hamas. The Israeli government has made it very clear that they have no interest in that potential future, and in fact have expansionist objectives that directly conflict with it. But it's their only real option to try get out from under Hamas and those enablers, There is no other way forward and the world should hold Israel accountable.

-Far and away the most clear eyed take here.

99.99% chance Israel fucks this up and the problem continues into perpetuity, but here is the chance for Israel to go into Gaza, Kill or Jail anyone with a Hamas affiliation, carry out extrajudicial killings of Hamas leaders on foreign soil... and then actually work to unfuck the lives of the remaining Palestinians.

Give them more room, build basic but clean and functional places for them to live outside of Gaza (even as second class citizens), build some fucking schools and show Palestinian kids a future outside of Hamas or dying for your Great Granddad's beef. It would be ugly, bleeding hearts would condemn it, there would still be blood. But it would be probably the most humane end to the conflict that is left open now.

I think it's patently absurd that people expect some Gazan dirt farmer to deal with Hamas when one of the world's most advanced, tested, and capable militaries hasn't been able to exterminate them.
 
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