Israel: We Are At War

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Drach

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2022
1,099
1,741
106
Well some people would say the US is also guilty of war crimes for it's air strikes over the years to take out terrorist targets that also caused collateral damage and harmed non-combatants. Can you wage war against a terrorist group like Hamas without committing some type of war crimes?
I think I remember the US blowing up a wedding in Afghanistan.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
I never realized the moral bar of "we shouldn't kill civilians" was so controversial. Hamas is an awful group with their terrorist attack on civilians. The blanket revenge bombing of and cutting off of supplies to Gaza in response is appalling and bad.

How would you respond instead?
 

Zor Prime

Golden Member
Nov 7, 1999
1,023
588
136
First I've seen, 5 minutes ago: The IDF tells Fox News' Trey Yingst that Israeli forces entered the Gaza Strip Friday, both infantry forces and tanks, to conduct localized raids.

It begins.
 

linkgoron

Platinum Member
Mar 9, 2005
2,334
857
136
Israel and Lebanon are exchanging artillery fire.
Hezbollah has been "showing support" for the last few days, but it has been mostly minor things - although five Israeli soldiers have been killed on that border. The assumption has been (so far) that they might join when/if a larger ground assault starts in Gaza.
 

Roger Wilco

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2017
3,955
5,826
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Hezbollah has been "showing support" for the last few days, but it has been mostly minor things - although five Israeli soldiers have been killed on that border. The assumption has been (so far) that they might join when/if a larger ground assault starts in Gaza.

The ground assault starts in the next 24 hours. Feels like they may be chomping at the bit.
 

gothuevos

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2010
2,100
1,738
136
That will be part of Israel then.

There is no going back.

They likely will recreate the corridor to the west bank at some point, and they will most likely move to the west bank.

Does the west Bank have the infrastructure to accommodate a million new people?
 

linkgoron

Platinum Member
Mar 9, 2005
2,334
857
136
That will be part of Israel then.

There is no going back.

They likely will recreate the corridor to the west bank at some point, and they will most likely move to the west bank.
I don't think Israel will settle parts of the Gaza strip, they've already made that mistake once and gone back from it.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,782
1,540
126
Well some people would say the US is also guilty of war crimes for it's air strikes over the years to take out terrorist targets that also caused collateral damage and harmed non-combatants. Can you wage war against a terrorist group like Hamas without committing some type of war crimes?

My issue is the gaslighting. This whole rage is predicated on Israel's believe that Hamas committed terrorism(equivalent to war crimes). If you are going to equally commit war crimes, then what is your rage about? Or is it because you feel righteous in the reason for those war crimes?
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,601
29,313
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How would you respond instead?
Who says you HAVE to respond? What if the response is just to put new defenses in place to prevent a similar attack in the future? What if the response is to apologize for harassing Palestinians out of areas that Israel wants to take for themselves and just not doing that anymore? That way, if/when Hamas attacks again in the future Israel might have more international support because they aren't acting like a douchbag state.
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,434
7,356
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How would you respond instead?
Likely not with a wholesale bombing campaign that will indiscriminately harm civilians and an invasion that starts with creating a bigger humanitarian crisis when you tell 1.1 million people to leave their homes.

The response could include any number of things, from more targeted strikes and special forces, it could be putting up better defenses and intelligence to prevent future issues, it could be undercutting Hamas's power base by supporting a new government in Gaza.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
Pretty good overview (short) of the Geopolitics involved in the current situation, as some have pointed out here. I was surprised to see that there are some in the government that are to the RIGHT of Netanyahu. Also, the pressure from 'peers' for HAMAS to act more boldly. The are signs all over the place that Iran is involved in this (particularly because of the timing). I guess, in time we will find out.

 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,710
6,198
126
I knew you'd respond to this and we're definitely going to agree to disagree on this, but I believe in whole that you're wrong. We as a species (and the species we came from) decided where the needle lies on morality for our entire existence, entirely independent of our genes, often independent of our upbringing (for both better and worse). The only people who 'know better' are ones who have witnessed how good life can be without all the raping and pillaging, and even then some still choose violence. Our culture primarily defines our morals though, which is basically just sparkling peer pressure at that point (we are apes after all).
Yes we will disagree. All that I can ask then, if truth is truly subjective and not something we feel a certainty about within, that it really does exist, why did you describe this disagreement as something you believe rather than as you claim it should be, just your personal subjective opinion? You may claim semantics but I think it goes much deeper than that.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,707
5,436
136
Who says you HAVE to respond? What if the response is just to put new defenses in place to prevent a similar attack in the future? What if the response is to apologize for harassing Palestinians out of areas that Israel wants to take for themselves and just not doing that anymore? That way, if/when Hamas attacks again in the future Israel might have more international support because they aren't acting like a douchbag state.
fuck that shit.
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,490
1,680
136
My issue is the gaslighting. This whole rage is predicated on Israel's believe that Hamas committed terrorism(equivalent to war crimes). If you are going to equally commit war crimes, then what is your rage about? Or is it because you feel righteous in the reason for those war crimes?

Israel feels righteous in the reason for the war crimes because in their view because you cannot fight back against a terrorist organization without harming innocent civilians.
It would be the same way that the US feels righteous in taking out terrorists using drones even when we know that some innocent civilians will be harmed.

 
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