Israel: We Are At War

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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,850
34,792
136
Hamas has a variety of rockets at their disposal of varying size both from Iran and domestically produced. Some of these have substantially larger warheads than the Q-series that are the most familiar to people.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,782
1,540
126
With all the inconsistent statements coming out of Israel about this, I don't trust anything they'll put put. Their spokesman can't say they did it one minute, delete the tweet and then say it was Hamas the next. Wouldn't trust Hamas as well. And I wouldn't trust the US. The US has an incentive to tamp down the anger which is understandable. Until a neutral party reviews it, I don't see how we'll know for sure.
 
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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,167
3,862
136
Yeah, even a 500lb variant is going to blow out windows, destroy those clay roof tiles, and destroy the rooftop solar arrays. This was due to a burning accelerant of some sort, not HE.

But the marine said that it was less than 500bn because he did his estimation based on the way objects are scattered, he estimated that it was in the 200 lbs range otherwise things would have been pushed at a bigger distance with a 500 lbs bomb.

Besides you cant imagine all the fakes that the israelis posted since yesterday, everything was debunked on the hour, among other an old video and another one that was badly time stamped, so much efforts posting fakes is a ring of smocking guns...
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,837
8,421
136
But the marine said that it was less than 500bn because he did his estimation based on the way objects are scattered, he estimated that it was in the 200 lbs range otherwise things would have been pushed at a bigger distance with a 500 lbs bomb.

Besides you cant imagine all the fakes that the israelis posted since yesterday, everything was debunked on the hour, among other an old video and another one that was badly time stamped, so much efforts posting fakes is a ring of smocking guns...

Well, then it wasn't a JDAM. Which means we need to revisit your expert testimony on audio analysis.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
This is so much bullshit. The only way, in most cases, to definitely identify the particular bomb/missile used is to find a large enough fragment to examine. With HE warheads there's rarely a large enough fragment, an if there is it's likely buried in rubble. Most missile types are only IDed when there is a failure.

So, can we please stop wasting time on something we literally cannot know?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,282
28,141
136
If Biden says Hamas blew up the hospital that's good enough for me.
He didn't say it was conclusive. He just said he is confident it wasn't Israel. He's now in a tough spot because he has thrown his lot in with Israel.

US position from the start has been Israel should defend itself within the rules of war.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,571
7,634
136
If Biden says Hamas blew up the hospital that's good enough for me.
A burned parking lot?
Must have been a nuclear weapon, if one wanted to listen to all the experts on here.
I was waiting for our government's assessment. They have the data, we do not.

The video appears to show enemy fire being intercepted or malfunctioning. From the rocket that shot up, something else was jettisoned downward with force. Second later, explosion. I did not know what to make of it. Was ready to blame Israel if our intel said it was. Truth is, even if Israel did do it, that wouldn't change anything to me. The bombing of heavy urban areas should rightly be considered an atrocity. But when we are at war, and that is where Hamas is located. Bombs or bullets, there is no kindness to be found in what needs to be done to stop the terrorist group.

And it needs to be done. The capture of Gaza, and filtration of its people to be disarmed and secured. To finish the war Hamas started, many more will die as collateral.
If you manage to stop Israel from doing this, then many more people will still die from terrorism, just at a later date.
Hamas forces us to choose between one atrocity or another. Theirs, or ours.

So, can we please stop wasting time on something we literally cannot know?
I am fine with leaving it at our government's assessment.
However, NO ONE is going to listen to that. Humans do not value reason, they want madness. People across the world are riled up and agitated over propaganda, misinformation on the hospital strike.
They want blood for blood. They want rage and anger, they fume with passion and want Israel stopped.
In this way, they support Hamas.

The focus on why they do that, is not a waste of time. It can be crucial in the days ahead as Iran vows preemptive attacks on Israel.
We need moral clarity, not people calling for a terrorist group's victory.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
The focus on why they do that, is not a waste of time. It can be crucial in the days ahead as Iran vows preemptive attacks on Israel.
We need moral clarity, not people calling for a terrorist group's victory.
Unfortunately, once a war is declared, moral clarity goes out the window. What’s the saying - the first victim, of war is truth. All I know is that we are in a time of great sadness over the horrific events that have happened and worse ones yet to come. It’s a particularly terrible period of mass insanity. Sadly, humans are really well practiced at mass insanity. 10,000 years of perfection 🙁
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,486
1,675
136
The marine investigation i linked talk of a 200-300 lb bomb IIRC; look at the scene, what rocket do that damage and could put cars upside down, we re talking of 20 lb explosive charge for palestinians rockets...

He saw this scene and estimated the explosive charge by the way object are scettered...
Then what would place it in the size category of the SDB (Small Diameter Bomb). Which only has about 36lb of High Explosive in the bomb. I only see one car upside down. Most cars just look like they are burned out. It just doesn't look like to me that you had the detonation of a explosive that is high velocity like you would see with a SDB. There would be more blast damage. Your earlier videos you linked to showed a massive fireball explosion which is something similar you would expect to see from improvised munitions like a Hamas rocket would have on it. Makes a large fireball but the explosion is low velocity which reduces the blast damage.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,697
5,431
136
People will believe what they want.

But that doesn't look like the damage a military grade weapon does to my inexpert opinion. The very small crater just seems odd. The weapon didn't air burst, ( observe the crater appearance ), but the crater does not match what a US penetrating type bomb leaves behind.


It kind of looks like a long pipe hit the ground and blew up.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
People will believe what they want.

But that doesn't look like the damage a military grade weapon does to my inexpert opinion. The very small crater just seems odd. The weapon didn't air burst, ( observe the crater appearance ), but the crater does not match what a US penetrating type bomb leaves behind.


It kind of looks like a long pipe hit the ground and blew up.
Are there a really good verifiable photos of the crater? I forgot about crater analysis, but it only works with detailed photos and measurements.
 

FireJack

Member
Oct 31, 2015
40
16
81
I'm getting reports that the whole "bombed hospital" with 500+ dead is turning out to be a damaged parking lot with some destroyed cars.
Some people might have died but maybe 15 or so at most not 500.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,032
10,205
136
Biden announces aid package for Palestinians.

Israel gets $3.8bn / year for ten years, Palestine gets $100m.

I'm reminded of the quote from Apocalypse Now:

“It was the way we had over here of living with ourselves. We’d cut them in half with a machine gun and give them a Band-Aid. It was a lie—and the more I saw of them, the more I hated lies.”
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,697
5,431
136
Just to be clear here, Hamas fires rockets considerably bigger then 20 Kg of explosive:

Qassam 1: 5 kg;
Qassam 2: 10 kg;
Qassam 3: 20 kg;
Qassam 4:~10 kg


Fajr-3: 45 kg (HE content) - 90 kg (warhead)
Fajr-5: 90 kg (HE content) - 175 kg (warhead)
M-75 – Gazan produced Fajr-5 rocket

Khaibar-1 - 150 Kg warhead

Quds-3 - 17 kilograms of explosives - 122 mm rocket, fired from a launcher that fires 10 at once to over load iron dome
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,571
7,634
136
I'm getting reports that the whole "bombed hospital" with 500+ dead is turning out to be a damaged parking lot with some destroyed cars.
Some people might have died but maybe 15 or so at most not 500.
Thousands of Palestinians are dying in this war. Of Israel bombing and soon to-be ground invasion of Gaza.
Hospital or not, makes no actual difference. A drop in the sea of blood at this point.

However, to your point. Can you not imagine that parking lot filled with people?
I can. Maybe not 500, but there's plenty of space for MANY victims. They may have been there due to all the chaos, displacement from homes and mass migration going on. Perhaps many were injured and waiting to get inside for treatment.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,571
7,634
136
US independently confirms Israel did not bomb that particular hospital parking lot.
Does anyone here care to take their word for it?
Not like those people protesting across the globe will care one bit. They consumed the first headline and will hear no more of it.


Now, a second piece of info, this time from Israel.

 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,837
8,421
136
US independently confirms Israel did not bomb that particular hospital parking lot.
Does anyone here care to take their word for it?
Not like those protesting across the globe will care one bit. They consumed the first headline and will hear no more of it.


Except it's not just "their word".

The physical evidence thus far does not support the theory that it was an Israeli bunker buster. Add in that the almost immediate reports of 500+ deaths (now vastly increased) came from a recognized terrorist organization that just 10 days ago conducted coordinated invasions of civilian areas and massacred or kidnapped anyone they came across.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,571
7,634
136
Except it's not just "their word".
To the true believers, contrary information to one's belief system, is fake.
I ask if anyone will "take their word"... another way to phrase the question... "will anyone care?"

The entire Middle East already appears united in condemning Israel for the hospital. Despite the facts. Despite the truth.
 
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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,837
8,421
136
To the true believers, contrary information to one's belief system, is fake.
I ask if anyone will "take their word"... another way to phrase the question... "will anyone care?"

The entire Middle East already appears united in condemning Israel for the hospital. Despite the facts. Despite the truth.

Ah, ok. Apologies. On that I agree. The damage (no pun intended) is already done.

See: Beirut around the US embassy
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,282
28,141
136
US independently confirms Israel did not bomb that particular hospital parking lot.
Does anyone here care to take their word for it?
Not like those people protesting across the globe will care one bit. They consumed the first headline and will hear no more of it.


Now, a second piece of info, this time from Israel.

We won't know for sure until the blast site is examined in person. It says "likely"
 
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