Israel: We Are At War

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FireJack

Member
Oct 31, 2015
40
16
81
"However, to your point. Can you not imagine that parking lot filled with people?
I can. Maybe not 500, but there's plenty of space for MANY victims."

Even if the parking lot was really crowded I could see possibly dozens but I doubt it. I think the Hamas greatly exaggerated the death toll in order to drum up rage and the media drank it up without question.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,685
43,947
136
I see where at this stage now

~He said the military did have an Israeli air force operation in the area around the time of the hospital blast, "but it was with a different kind of ammunition that does not ... fit the footage that we have (of) the hospital."

 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,512
4,607
136
I don't know if you noticed, but the USA and the entirety of Europe is not letting them in either.


Yep. Curious that at the end of the day the only people who actually care about them are the Israelis.

Everyone else is just hot air.

My point was our Wide Open southern border with Mexico.
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,512
4,607
136
Back to 2015 and hating/blaming Muslims again?

Is there a single group that conservatives haven't waged war against in the past 8 years?

No I just think we should have better control of our borders. And the Pals should be taken in by friendly countries in the area and not shipped half way around the world.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
A burned parking lot?
Must have been a nuclear weapon, if one wanted to listen to all the experts on here.
I was waiting for our government's assessment. They have the data, we do not.

The video appears to show enemy fire being intercepted or malfunctioning. From the rocket that shot up, something else was jettisoned downward with force. Second later, explosion. I did not know what to make of it. Was ready to blame Israel if our intel said it was. Truth is, even if Israel did do it, that wouldn't change anything to me. The bombing of heavy urban areas should rightly be considered an atrocity. But when we are at war, and that is where Hamas is located. Bombs or bullets, there is no kindness to be found in what needs to be done to stop the terrorist group.

And it needs to be done. The capture of Gaza, and filtration of its people to be disarmed and secured. To finish the war Hamas started, many more will die as collateral.
If you manage to stop Israel from doing this, then many more people will still die from terrorism, just at a later date.
Hamas forces us to choose between one atrocity or another. Theirs, or ours.


I am fine with leaving it at our government's assessment.
However, NO ONE is going to listen to that. Humans do not value reason, they want madness. People across the world are riled up and agitated over propaganda, misinformation on the hospital strike.
They want blood for blood. They want rage and anger, they fume with passion and want Israel stopped.
In this way, they support Hamas.

The focus on why they do that, is not a waste of time. It can be crucial in the days ahead as Iran vows preemptive attacks on Israel.
We need moral clarity, not people calling for a terrorist group's victory.

We already have an assessment. Biden just said that according to US intel, the Pals did it to themselves.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
No I just think we should have better control of our borders. And the Pals should be taken in by friendly countries in the area and not shipped half way around the world.
You don't give a shit about the borders. Just entry for certain people. We have more people here overstaying Visas vs illegal border crossings. Or as your boy said...
 

APU_Fusion

Senior member
Dec 16, 2013
979
1,484
136
You don't give a shit about the borders. Just entry for certain people. We have more people here overstaying Visas vs illegal border crossings. Or as your boy said...
PCGeek is ignorant Magat who obviously binge watches Breitbart, Fox and OAn. He hates women and minorities based on his posts. He is willfully ignorant troll so put him on ignore. He is only on here to troll; not learn anything or be objective.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,167
3,862
136
Well, then it wasn't a JDAM. Which means we need to revisit your expert testimony on audio analysis.

The warhead can 40 lbs, but it s not pure explosive, it s filled with shrapnels and iron density is about 8kg/litre while TNT is 1.6kg/litre, so most of the warhead is iron, indeed they made a direct hit on a unoccuped car and it wasnt even blow to piece, it stayed monolithic and burned with some glass debris neraby, other vheicules around were untouched.

When they hit a wall and that ther s a hole it s because the byuilding is built with a reinforced concrete cage and the walls are made of brick and mortar.

We can also see rockets that fell on the ground, it hardly make a hole more than 0.5 metre diameter, so those weapons cant have the destructive effect that can be seen on the hospital parking.

Anyway once it s about israel it seems that no one is allowed to speak on the subject unless he side with this state s point of view...
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,490
1,680
136
The warhead can 40 lbs, but it s not pure explosive, it s filled with shrapnels and iron density is about 8kg/litre while TNT is 1.6kg/litre, so most of the warhead is iron, indeed they made a direct hit on a unoccuped car and it wasnt even blow to piece, it stayed monolithic and burned with some glass debris neraby, other vheicules around were untouched.

When they hit a wall and that ther s a hole it s because the byuilding is built with a reinforced concrete cage and the walls are made of brick and mortar.

We can also see rockets that fell on the ground, it hardly make a hole more than 0.5 metre diameter, so those weapons cant have the destructive effect that can be seen on the hospital parking.

Anyway once it s about israel it seems that no one is allowed to speak on the subject unless he side with this state s point of view...

You mean a hole like this? Do you seriously think that crater was made by a JDAM?

 
Reactions: Leeea

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,710
6,198
126
CNN: Palestinian officials blamed ongoing Israeli airstrikes for the lethal incident. But the Israel Defense Forces has “categorically” denied any involvement in the hospital attack, blaming instead a “failed rocket launch” by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad group, a rival Islamist militant group in Gaza. “We did not strike that, and that the intelligence that we have suggests that it was a failed rocket launch by the Islamic Jihad, and I want to add, categorically, that we do not intentionally strike any sensitive facilities, any sensitive facilities, and definitely not hospitals,” Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus told CNN.

But:

While the IDF has said it does not target hospitals, the UN and Doctors Without Borders say Israeli airstrikes have struck medical facilities, including hospitals and ambulances.

Forgot to post this yesterday evening.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,285
8,205
136
I'm a little surprised that in all this, with talk now of possible Hezbollah involvement and escalation to direct conflict with Iran, that North Korea hasn't chosen this moment to do something attention-seeking.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,532
27,835
136
I'm a little surprised that in all this, with talk now of possible Hezbollah involvement and escalation to direct conflict with Iran, that North Korea hasn't chosen this moment to do something attention-seeking.
They're busy making money off of Putin.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,276
9,359
146
Anyway once it s about israel it seems that no one is allowed to speak on the subject unless he side with this state s point of view...
Not here on ATPN. Have you noticed that?

Posters with opposing opinions will respond forcefully. They are allowed, just as you are allowed to post your opinions with vigor, sarcasm, hyperbole and high dudgeon, if you so wish.

The thunderdome of free speech. Not particularly polite, but of all this effing heat may come some light.

Hey! It could happen.
 
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Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,706
5,435
136
That's the crater a JDAM would make if there were no payload. Maybe.

speculation is flying is it was a R-160, which is a Hamas manufactured M-302. These things go 100 km, carry a lot of fuel on board, and pack a 144 Kg warhead. They are manufactured by Hamas, so the QA is unlikely to be up to the original Chinese design they copied.
 

APU_Fusion

Senior member
Dec 16, 2013
979
1,484
136
The warhead can 40 lbs, but it s not pure explosive, it s filled with shrapnels and iron density is about 8kg/litre while TNT is 1.6kg/litre, so most of the warhead is iron, indeed they made a direct hit on a unoccuped car and it wasnt even blow to piece, it stayed monolithic and burned with some glass debris neraby, other vheicules around were untouched.

When they hit a wall and that ther s a hole it s because the byuilding is built with a reinforced concrete cage and the walls are made of brick and mortar.

We can also see rockets that fell on the ground, it hardly make a hole more than 0.5 metre diameter, so those weapons cant have the destructive effect that can be seen on the hospital parking.

Anyway once it s about israel it seems that no one is allowed to speak on the subject unless he side with this state s point of view...
So, instead of apologizing that you could have been wrong after US Intelligence says it was LIKELY (but not guaranteed) Hamas you cry about how no one is allowed to speak unless it is State’s point of view while your post remains uncensored. Pathetic. Sounds like you are pro Hamas. See, I can say dumb things here too.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
With all the inconsistent statements coming out of Israel about this, I don't trust anything they'll put put. Their spokesman can't say they did it one minute, delete the tweet and then say it was Hamas the next. Wouldn't trust Hamas as well. And I wouldn't trust the US. The US has an incentive to tamp down the anger which is understandable. Until a neutral party reviews it, I don't see how we'll know for sure.

Funny how you choose not to trust what Israel and Biden are saying here. The history of this conflict is that the pals lie about every last thing that happens during warfare between the two, particularly civilian casualties. The proof is in the assessment of all these anti-Israel human rights orgs and the UN HRC, the reports of which several people have been waving around in this thread. Those are the "neutrals" who will investigate here, who are not neutral, but will nonetheless end up corroborating Israel's version of it. If they investigate the incident at all, since they already know that what Biden just said is accurate - satellite imagery confirms that the ordinance that hit the hospital came from elsewhere in Gaza, and specifically from an Islamic Jihad operational zone. And they won't want to issue a report that says that.

I highly doubt Biden is lying about this either, because I don't think he would lie about it to begin with, and everything that has happened in past wars confirms that the Pals are the least trustworthy source.

You guys should read these reports you keep linking. There are several dozen of them over the years and I've read through a bunch. You have to look past the articles about the reports, and the executive summaries with their overcooked rhetoric about war crimes, human rights violations and apartheid, and look at the factual investigations. They typically come in at 10% over IDF assessments of civilian casualties, and 90% under Palestinian assessments. But never mention the discrepancy. You have to look elsewhere to find out what the Pals were claiming, because these orgs don't want people to be aware of how often and to what extent they lie. But they will mention the IDF assessments, to show that civilian casualties were a little higher than they said.

As an example of Palestinian mendacity, when Israel conducted an operation in Jenin (West Bank) in 2003 to root out a bomb making operation, and it turned into a major battle, IDF said 9 civilians were killed. Human Rights Watch said 12. The Pals said 500. And they were caught on video staging over 100 fake funeral processions, with empty caskets, for people who didn't exist.

Collectively the reports show that Israel conducts itself similarly to the US or other democracies who are at war, with the special consideration that they are confronting an enemy who hides amongst civilians. They also prove the Pals are fighting a propaganda war here. Since they cannot prevail militarily, they are trying to de-legitimize Israel to the rest of the world. And so many people in this thread are suckers, buying it all, hook line and sinker. You guys know all those righties who will believe anything that makes democrats look bad, no matter how outlandish or evidence free the claims are? Well many people here are exactly the same - they buy anything that makes Israel look bad. I've pretty much had it with people who seem to have no idea of who historically tells the truth and who does not. Motivated reasoning is an epidemic these days.
 
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Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,034
2,613
136
We already have an assessment. Biden just said that according to US intel, the Pals did it to themselves.
Bbc reporting an eyewitness saying a F16 or F35 was responsible in their latest reporting. Apparently the hospital had already been hit by an airstrike hours before.

 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,512
4,607
136
Reactions: KMFJD and dphantom

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,512
4,607
136
PCGeek is ignorant Magat who obviously binge watches Breitbart, Fox and OAn. He hates women and minorities based on his posts. He is willfully ignorant troll so put him on ignore. He is only on here to troll; not learn anything or be objective.

Why don't you take your own advice and put me on ignore ?
 
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