Israel: We Are At War

[Thunder 57]

That's the point. We shouldn't take the word of Israel or Hamas. Should be an investigation by an international force.

OK, who is going to volunteer for that job? No one who values living. Not to mention you could never find impartial people.

 

[Sunburn74]

Did you think they would side with the terrorists?

The issue isn't siding with Israel. Its turning a blind eye to their flaws whilst significantly supporting them politically, financially, and militarily.

Right now I don't think either side in the conflict really has the moral high ground.

 

[KMFJD]

Are you labeling Israel a terrorist state?

Their actions have been speaking for themselves

 

[Charmonium]

I'm sure this has been posted but Hamas citing humanitarian reasons for releasing hostages seems to fall somewhere between bad comedy and bad sarcasm. I did get a good laugh out of that but I'm the first to admit I'm sorta twisted.

 

[RnR_au]

Are you labeling Israel a terrorist state?

Imagine a Western country doing to the Palestinians what the Israeli's has been doing for decades and completely ignoring UN resolutions. The outcry would have been ginormous.

Don't get me wrong. HAMAS is farkin' evil, but you can condemn both actors (or more) in a shitty scene. Israel don't get a free pass. If they want to sit at the table with the adults, they have to farkin' behave.

Australian soldiers being investigated over their actions in Afghanistan.

War crime allegations prompted warnings from US about cooperation with Australia

Defence chief Angus Campbell reveals the United States military warned that allegations of war crimes may affect future cooperation with Australia.

www.abc.net.au

As they should be.

Israel refuses to investigate the killing of journalist Shireen Abu Akleh and have even told the US Department of Justice to go and get farked when they opened an investigation into the killing.

When you have a nation state that refuses to do self reflection on its application of martial power, then the world has a problem.

 

[Indus]

And the US and most of the western world keeps siding with Isreal. It sickens me.

Why is it just the west that has to send them aid and support?

I don't see Iran sending them trucks of food and aid!

 

[zinfamous]

Are you labeling Israel a terrorist state?

well if the glove fits.

They've definitely expanded beyond simply an apartheid state, which they certainly have been for a generation. How many degrees are there between apartheid and terrorist state? I guess that's the more salient question...

 

[Brovane]

Imagine a Western country doing to the Palestinians what the Israeli's has been doing for decades and completely ignoring UN resolutions. The outcry would have been ginormous.

Don't get me wrong. HAMAS is farkin' evil, but you can condemn both actors (or more) in a shitty scene. Israel don't get a free pass. If they want to sit at the table with the adults, they have to farkin' behave.

Australian soldiers being investigated over their actions in Afghanistan.

War crime allegations prompted warnings from US about cooperation with Australia

Defence chief Angus Campbell reveals the United States military warned that allegations of war crimes may affect future cooperation with Australia.

www.abc.net.au

As they should be.

Israel refuses to investigate the killing of journalist Shireen Abu Akleh and have even told the US Department of Justice to go and get farked when they opened an investigation into the killing.

When you have a nation state that refuses to do self reflection on its application of martial power, then the world has a problem.

Remember the US keeps giving Israel aid.

 

[Brovane]

Their actions have been speaking for themselves

You get dirty fighting terrorists.

 

[HomerJS]

Republicans are ginning up their latest conspiracy theory of terrorist sleeper cells. Hamas coming to a neighborhood near you. Republicans get a sudden interest in terrorism when brown people are the perps.

Kevin McCarthy warns of potential terrorist ‘sleeper cells’ in the US

Ousted House Speaker Kevin McCarthy has warned there may be terrorist sleeper cells hiding in the United States and waiting for the order to strike, amid unprecedented illegal immigration at the so…

nypost.com

Meanwhile we already have sleeper terrorist cells in this country. They already attacked El Paso TX, Jacksonville FL, Buffalo NY, Pittsburgh PA, Charlestown SC, Charlottesville VA. Republicans not only don't care about these terrorist attacks, but they associate with the very groups that promote sickening anti-Semitism and racism.

 

[amenx]

They might blow up the Shifa hospital. And have provided justification to this lobbyist to handle the anticipated outrage.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715642809242284509

 

[Sunburn74]

Their actions have been speaking for themselves

When the US invaded Afghanistan in 2009, a little under 400 children died in that year. The whole year.

Between 2008 to 2022, about 3000 children were killed in the US Iraq invasion.

The number of child death in just a week or so in Gaza are absolutely horrendous and lend credence to these claims that Israel does not have the moral high ground here. Either they don't know what they are doing militarily or they know exactly what they are doing militarily.

 

[Brovane]

When the US invaded Afghanistan in 2009, a little under 400 children died in that year. The whole year.

Between 2008 to 2022, about 3000 children were killed in the US Iraq invasion.

The number of child death in just a week or so in Gaza are absolutely horrendous and lend credence to these claims that Israel does not have the moral high ground here. Either they don't know what they are doing militarily or they know exactly what they are doing militarily.

How would you handle Hamas?

 

[Sunburn74]

How would you handle Hamas?

I would have secured the border immediately with force (which they did), then given 2 weeks for the following:

Safe passage of women and children only to surrounding Arab nations.
Return all the hostages unconditionally.
Current Hamas leadership turned over for criminal charges in Israel/or the Hague or whatever.
Palestinians quickly select new leaders and come to the negotiation table with a self chosen delegation.


If all demands are not met, then Israel invades, does whatever they want etc, blows everything up etc. At the very least, show restraint and calculus in what you are doing whilst you have the moral high ground. The world would look at Israel and support them. Now it's not clear who is in the right.

 

[Leeea]

How would you handle Hamas?

Kill them all without mercy. Accept the collateral damage.

Safe passage of women and children only to surrounding Arab nations.

so, none of the Arab nations will accept any of them

also, ethnic cleansing, displacing the population and never allowing them to return as Israel has done in the past

Return all the hostages unconditionally.

We all like our fantasy, but clearly high on some very high quality drugs.

Care to share?

Current Hamas leadership turned over for criminal charges in Israel/or the Hague or whatever.

and why would they ever do that?

Hamas has IEDed every building, road, and has enough food to last decades. A civilian population to use as Human shields along with hostages.

Palestinians quickly select new leaders and come to the negotiation table with a self chosen delegation.

ah yes, so, um, how are they doing to do that?

You do know that Hamas simply shoots anyone who has those kind of ideas?

If all demands are not met, then Israel invades, does whatever they want etc, blows everything up etc.

oh, so your at the current plan. Murder everyone.

At the very least, show restraint and calculus in what you are doing whilst you have the moral high ground.

pretty much the opposite of what you just proposed.

The world would look at Israel and support them.

um, that was never going to happen. Just never. I wouldn't matter how holy Israel was.

The haters were always going to hate.

Now it's not clear who is in the right.

Lesser evil. It is a choice of lesser evils. There is no right.



So it becomes a personal decision. And for me, one side would welcome me, and one side has a deep cultural tradition of inflicting harm on me. So I support the side that would welcome me. I support Israel's right to defend itself. Because every time the Irans, Russias, Hamases win, there are less safe places in the world for me.

and at the end of the day, I am selfish enough to put myself first.

 

[Brovane]

I would have secured the border immediately with force (which they did), then given 2 weeks for the following:

Safe passage of women and children only to surrounding Arab nations.
Return all the hostages unconditionally.
Current Hamas leadership turned over for criminal charges in Israel/or the Hague or whatever.
Palestinians quickly select new leaders and come to the negotiation table with a self chosen delegation.


If all demands are not met, then Israel invades, does whatever they want etc, blows everything up etc. At the very least, show restraint and calculus in what you are doing whilst you have the moral high ground. The world would look at Israel and support them. Now it's not clear who is in the right.

LOL - Ok you live in fantasy land.

A quick lesson, the other Arab countries really don't care about the Palestinians because according to them Palestinians are racially inferior to Arabs. Also Arabs are racially inferior to Persians, which is why Iran thinks it should be in charge of the ME. The only reason they pretend to care is because they hate Jews more than the Palestinians. They don't want the Palestinians coming into their country. Hamas has no reason to return the hostages unconditionally. Current Hamas leadership isn't going to turn themselves to face criminal charges.

 

[Sunburn74]

LOL - Ok you live in fantasy land.

A quick lesson, the other Arab countries really don't care about the Palestinians because according to them Palestinians are racially inferior to Arabs. Also Arabs are racially inferior to Persians, which is why Iran thinks it should be in charge of the ME. The only reason they pretend to care is because they hate Jews more than the Palestinians. They don't want the Palestinians coming into their country. Hamas has no reason to return the hostages unconditionally. Current Hamas leadership isn't going to turn themselves to face criminal charges.

No one is saying Hamas would accept the terms and that war on this scale wouldn't be inevitable. It's more the principle that the powerful military that's going up against peasants basically has the responsibility to try to negotiate peacefully. This is my opinion. You can set the terms for avoiding war as whatever you want. It's the principle that the lack of negotiation for peace on the Israeli side is appalling to me. I mean at this time can Hamas even surrender? Can the people surrender peacefully? I'm not sure that's even an option to them today or at the start of this all.

Btw you simply don't know what would happen if Palestinians were faced with turning over their leadership after an atrocity that the whole world and many of palestinian people themselves renounce or face horrible civilian losses. No one does. Governments rise and fall at the direction of the people all the time. No one really knows and it's too late to know.

 

[Leeea]

I mean at this time can Hamas even surrender?

Israel has already indicated if they turn over the hostages they will restore services, water, and food to Gaza.

I mean at this time can Hamas even surrender? Can the people surrender peacefully?

Of course, but they would never consider it.

 

[RnR_au]

Other Arab nations won't accept Palestinians because of the potential for destabilisation. See Black September when Jordan tried playing the nice guy in the region - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September

 

[Ajay]

Other Arab nations won't accept Palestinians because of the potential for destabilisation. See Black September when Jordan tried playing the nice guy in the region - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September

Wow, the Fedayeen - now that's a blast from the past. People bitch about the stupid wars the US has been involved with, but the Israeli, Arab and Persian countries are no better. Their wars are smaller, but it reminds me of Europe before the 'pax Americana'.

 

[Moonbeam]

I wonder how US citizens would react to Europe bombing the US to destroy Trump voters so as to save the world from the massive disaster his Presidency would bring.

Is this guy a bigot: https://www.ft.com/content/61c23c82-4eaf-499b-8989-ecdebb86c839

 

[Jaskalas]

United States speaks to the world and draws a red line, that the United States will defend itself if attacked.
Iranian proxies (Iran itself?) attacks and wounds US troops.

Will we retreat from the region?
Or will we do nothing? The threat is growing, our soldiers cannot stay in Iraq or Syria. To say nothing of our red line meaning nothing.

Blinken tells UN: US does not want war with Iran but will defend itself​

UNITED NATIONS, Oct 24 (Reuters) - The United States told the United Nations on Tuesday it does not seek conflict with Iran, but Secretary of State Antony Blinken warned that Washington would act swiftly and decisively if Iran or its proxies attacks U.S. personnel anywhere.​

1. TROOPS ATTACKED 13 TIMES
2. DOZENS WOUNDED

 

[Leeea]

I wonder how US citizens would react to Europe bombing the US to destroy Trump voters so as to save the world from the massive disaster his Presidency would bring.

Is this guy a bigot: https://www.ft.com/content/61c23c82-4eaf-499b-8989-ecdebb86c839

I don't think I would be in the conflict area, as my understanding is we welcomed our European brothers and sisters with open arms in our state.

We also offered no shelter to maga terrorists, being delighted to comply with European demands.

Lastly, being the 5th largest economy in the world, we immediately petitioned to join the EU. Geographically we might be a bit separated, but it is hard to ignore the economic clout said union would bring.

 

[MrSquished]

Israel is a terrorist state. The Israelis became what they fled from in Europe.

You can't write this shit. Humanity at its worst is just insane. And so cyclical in this case.

 

[manly]

Yep. More:

How the Media Got the Hospital Explosion Wrong

Amplifying dubious Hamas claims caused real damage. No wonder public trust in news reporting is so low.

www.theatlantic.com

Strangely, the new figure is 100-300 dead? Not to say a few dozen fatalities is acceptable, but how did that explosion in the parking lot devastate the hospital?