I would prefer there be verification the hospital is actually evacuated prior to taking action. Hard to do when you're just pummeling it with missiles a requisite 6h after dropping a mortar on the roof as a 'warning'.
I would prefer there be verification the hospital is actually evacuated prior to taking action. Hard to do when you're just pummeling it with missiles a requisite 6h after dropping a mortar on the roof as a 'warning'.There are other options, but they would need to evacuate the Hospital anyway - or do you think that Israeli soldiers and Hamas members should go at it in the Hospital grounds while there are still sick and injured there?
I would prefer there be verification the hospital is actually evacuated prior to taking action. Hard to do when you're just pummeling it with missiles a requisite 6h after dropping a mortar on the roof as a 'warning'.
Unfortunately when Hamas decided to locate it's HQ inside of a Hospital, the Hospital loses it's special protected status under international law.
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Do you think Hamas would admit to doing it? Even if US intelligence confirms it, would you accept that as proof or just move the goalposts?And where is the proof? Israels mere say so? They have a proven track record of lying through their teeth. As well as a record of indiscriminate bombing and collective punishment going back decades. Its part of their 'deterrence', to make the civilian populace suffer tremendous loss of life, property, infrastructure that their leaders may think twice about engaging in hostile acts.
If that's the case, they're hostages, and you definitely don't blow up the building.Might Hamas prevent a evacuation?
That is not true.If that's the case, they're hostages, and you definitely don't blow up the building.
I'm not sure why this is such a 'thing'. Bad guys are hiding amongst good guys. You cannot blow up goodies to get at baddies. No, not even in that case you're thinking of.
Probably not, but again, but all of you have at this stage is Israels word for it. Despite their past record of disproportionate destruction that goes beyond military objectives. And they are on record saying so in past conflicts (The Dahiya Doctrine).Do you think Hamas would admit to doing it? Even if US intelligence confirms it, would you accept that as proof or just move the goalposts?
Sure, Russia and Israeli have made a mockery of it. But its the only thing the world has at the moment to keep itself in check, despite bad actors in play.International law?
Amidst the genocidal bloodbath Russia has been waging these past two years?
Someone still fancies the delusion that there is such a thing as law when it comes to war?
And what does the formula look like when one dead innocent creates two new Hamas members?That is not true.
That is a choice that can be made. It is not black and white. It is more of a grey choice.
When bad guys hide among good guys they have murdered the good guys. Blowing them all up is a valid and acceptable choice. It may not be the right choice, but it is an acceptable choice.
Assaulting the position with infantry is likely to be just as pointless, as the bad guys are likely just to kill all the hostages out of spite.
Sometimes all the choices are bad. Why sacrifice more good guys pointlessly? Accepting the hostages are already dead and moving on may be the valid choice.
It really depends on the nation. Countries like the USA, France, UK have a social contract to attempt a rescue. Some countries in the EU will pay ransom. Other countries like Russia, Israel, Philippines have policies when captured your already dead.
The situation in Gaza is a complete mess because of the many nationalities involved.
Wonder why Hamas doesn't let the civilians use the tunnels as bomb shelters? Oh wait, that would reduce the number of causalities for their propaganda efforts....and people here eat it up like candy at Halloween.
Gaza, where there are more shelters for bombs than bomb shelters for civilians...
Israel has given several warnings already. If HAMAS actually cared about the Palestinian people. They would have facilitated the evacuation of the hospital, or, moved out themselves. As is abundantly clear by now, HAMAS doesn’t give a damn and prefers to hide behind civilian meat shields. Despicably so. So yes, all wars suck. It just sucks worse when your enemy has the moral fortitude of Ghengis Khan.Right, so now we get to fight over what 'warning' and 'reasonable time-limit' is, and whether Israel gave them that.
are you doing Bibi's press releases?Israel has given several warnings already. If HAMAS actually cared about the Palestinian people. They would have facilitated the evacuation of the hospital, or, moved out themselves. As is abundantly clear by now, HAMAS doesn’t give a damn and prefers to hide behind civilian meat shields. Despicably so. So yes, all wars suck. It just sucks worse when your enemy has the moral fortitude of Ghengis Khan.
It is practically impossible to make this point often enough. The atmosphere, the temperature, the level of bias and entrenched sympathy on both sides make people trigger happy.I don't condemn all Israelis. I know there is opposition to netanyahu and the right wing agenda in there, including what is happening now. Just like during Trump many of us were against his government and policies.
When I say Israel I mean the current government And what it has done for decades and especially what it's been doing lately, and those who know and support its behavior and actions including what's going on now.
How do you fight a group that's using human shields? I agree with the idea that you can't slaughter noncombatants, but doesn't that equate to not being able to retaliate? Israel ends up in the position of either packing up and going home, or accepting civilian casualties. I sure as hell could never make that call.If that's the case, they're hostages, and you definitely don't blow up the building.
I'm not sure why this is such a 'thing'. Bad guys are hiding amongst good guys. You cannot blow up goodies to get at baddies. No, not even in that case you're thinking of.
How can they evacuate a hospital full of intensive care patients near death or with blown off limbs and other horrific injuries? Over 8000 dead and 20,000 wounded, one would think hospitals are stretched past the limit, dont you think?Israel has given several warnings already. If HAMAS actually cared about the Palestinian people. They would have facilitated the evacuation of the hospital, or, moved out themselves. As is abundantly clear by now, HAMAS doesn’t give a damn and prefers to hide behind civilian meat shields. Despicably so. So yes, all wars suck. It just sucks worse when your enemy has the moral fortitude of Ghengis Khan.
On your part - most assuredly true. We are currently discussing some of the pragmatic and legal aspects of the war in Gaza - not our feelings about the plight of the long suffering Palestinian people (Going back centuries, FWIW). Bibi could trip and fall into a vat of acid for all I care.are you doing Bibi's press releases?
you just described the Israeli policy towards Palestinians in general. amazing the total lack of self-awareness.
Good point. Apparently, the only real option was for HAMAS to abandon their positions at hospitals to make them a safe zone for those patients. But then we get to the question of why they dug tunnels under hospitals and put command posts in the hospitals. The answer is beyond obvious.How can they evacuate a hospital full of intensive care patients near death or with blown off limbs and other horrific injuries? Over 8000 dead and 20,000 wounded, one would think hospitals are stretched past the limit, dont you think?
On your part - most assuredly true. We are currently discussing some of the pragmatic and legal aspects of the war in Gaza - not our feelings about the plight of the long suffering Palestinian people (Going back centuries, FWIW). Bibi could trip and fall into a vat of acid for all I care.
When did "you cannot blow up goodies to get baddies" suddenly become a rule of war? The US killed at least 100,000 civilian Germans, and closer to 1,000,000 civilian Japanese in WWII bombings. 100's of 1000's in Vietnam. Hundreds of thousands between Iraq and Afghanistan. And as a reminder, none of those countries except AQ in Afghanistan ever murdered civilians in the US.If that's the case, they're hostages, and you definitely don't blow up the building.
I'm not sure why this is such a 'thing'. Bad guys are hiding amongst good guys. You cannot blow up goodies to get at baddies. No, not even in that case you're thinking of.
yeah that was the one, horrible then, horrible nowIndeed:
I guess they were also fucking around and finding out…
The chaos in Gaza, the Israeli raids? They all benefit the official US policy of rescuing hostages by force of arms.And what does the formula look like when one dead innocent creates two new Hamas members?
May as well nuke the whole fucking thing at once and move on.