Israel: We Are At War

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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,598
12,727
146
If you are an American , I can understand your lack of understanding and what it feels like being thrown away and displaced away from your lands by force , because you are a new nation with only 250 years of existence that havent witnessed any invasion or being forced to leave your lands for centuries.
How does this make sense? If you're an actual American (as in, pre-colonial native) or descendant of who identifies as, the above actually happened to you. If you aren't, well then you're a settler and came from a place that did experience it, so it's the same. Is there any country on earth that has citizens that haven't been displaced by forced at some point in recorded history? Sentinelese and very isolated Inuit I guess?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,793
34,715
136
The flaw in that plan is Hamas does not only exist in Gaza. Hamas will be severely degraded but it won't be gone.

Not that I agree that really is the Israeli plan but yeah, the total elimination of Hamas is extremely unlikely.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,793
34,715
136
Former weapons inspector, Scott Ritter (of Iraq no WMD fame) has been providing excellent commentaries to several youtube channels. He was stationed in Israel for a period, had close working relationships with Israeli intel and knows the region and its history quit well.

He thinks, as well as I do, that Israel over-inflated its civilian casualties in the Oct 7 attack. A good portion of those killed were IDF and many civilians deaths were from IDF crossfire, as confirmed by some of the civilians in interviews after the attack.

You mean sex offender Scott Ritter who is now a total mouthpiece for Russian propaganda? Yea, no thanks.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,696
5,431
136
The last thing i saw in regards to those videos, an OSINT account are saying that was at the border wall and all the people shot where Hamas (amazing how he can verify that but whatever)

https://nitter.net/Osinttechnical/status/1722454383827304575#m

here's some footage from 2 days ago within Gaza from Hamas

Did the Israeli's post that because that makes it look like Hamas is getting absolutely WTF PWNed hard.

few things to notice:
not a single picture of a burning tank of vehicle, and if they had one, they would totally be showing that off

flashy detonations, but even in the video you can see a good number are short of the vehicle. Rafael is going to be using that video as part of its marketing campaign for Trophy active defense for the next 20 years.

One IED? You occupied the area for how many years and one IED? No follow up video with black smoke and burning vehicle so even that was ineffective? Epic failure.

You can just repeatedly see Israeli heavy armor pushing in and Hamas just achieving nothing against it. Absolutely nothing. Where are the drone drop munitions. Where are the drone videos? Did Hamas learn nothing from Ukraine?

Israel is just dominating the battle space and the best Hamas can do is harass ineffectively.
They are not even stationing their camera men on the roofs.
They are not shooting down from above at the weak top armor.
They are street level, tunnel level, heavily suppressed. Unable to snipe, unable to cover fire, and unable to sharp shoot.
No fortified buildings, no wire mesh covered windows, no prepared defenses, no strong points.
For a professional force that video shows incompetence at every level.


If that is all Hamas can do it is all over but the crying. All they are good for is murdering babies, both Israeli and Palestinian. Because that is all they achieved. A whole bunch of dead people who never had it coming.

At this rate it will be over in less then 3 months, the world will forget about it in 6 months, and that will be the end of it. They gave Likud their cake and let them eat it to.



note: We all been in the Ukraine thread long enough to know that the propaganda folks always show when the vehicle changes shape, burns, spews black smoke, or the crew abandons it. If you don't see that, it isn't dead. If OpFor didn't post that, it didn't happen.
 
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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,672
43,908
136
Did the Israeli's post that because that makes it look like Hamas is getting absolutely WTF PWNed hard.

few things to notice:
not a single picture of a burning tank of vehicle, and if they had one, they would totally be showing that off

flashy detonations, but even in the video you can see a good number are short of the vehicle. Rafael is going to be using that video as part of its marketing campaign for Trophy active defense for the next 20 years.

One IED? You occupied the area for how many years and one IED? No follow up video with black smoke and burning vechile so even that was ineffective? Epic failure.

You can just repeatedly see Israeli heavy armor pushing in and Hamas just achieving nothing against it. Absolutely nothing. Where are the drone drop munitions. Where are the drone videos? Did Hamas learn nothing from Ukraine?

Israel is just dominating the battle space and the best Hamas can do is harass ineffectively.
They are not even stationing their camera men on the roofs.
They are not shooting down from above at the weak top armor.
They are street level, tunnel level, heavily suppressed. Unable to snipe, unable to cover fire, and unable to sharp shoot.
No fortified buildings, no wire mesh covered windows, no prepared defenses, no strong points.
For a professional force that video shows incompetence at every level.


If that is all Hamas can do it is all over but the crying. All they are good for is murdering babies, both Israeli and Palestinian. Because that is all they achieved. A whole bunch of dead people who never had it coming.

At this rate it will be over in less then 3 months, the world will forget about it in 6 months, and that will be the end of it. They gave Likud their cake and let them eat it to.
no that's a hamas propaganda clip of course, also i must lol at you trying to tie Ukraine into this, who have all the latest toys from the US and the EU, meanwhile these guys have AK's and home made rpg's, complaining about the camera work(wtf?) you go up on those building you get snipped by IOF.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,264
9,331
146
no that's a hamas propaganda clip of course, also i must lol at you trying to tie Ukraine into this, who have all the latest toys from the US and the EU, meanwhile these guys have AK's and home made rpg's, complaining about the camera work(wtf?) you go up on those building you get snipped by IOF.
Lol, first time I saw this I thought it was a typo. Are you meaning to stand for the Israeli Occupation Force?
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,881
20,192
136
good ole' Israeli settlers outlining of their vision which is basically the vision of the current government, a sizeable number of Israelis, and has been for some time now.

this whole thing is insane and so revealing

 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,264
9,331
146
They're not occupying parts of Gaza/WB?

So, it wasn't a typo, which was my question.

Okay, then.

I mean, I had to first remember the previous occurrence, then look at it with my old man eyes to make sure it wasn't IQF, then google IOF, then think of what the 'O' might stand for (this wasn't hard, I possess high levels of smartness) then come here and confirm my supposition with you.

Navigating this minor issue has exhausted me. Time for a nap. And by "nap" I mean a second cup of coffee and perhaps a toke. It's a gray day. I feel anchored to my screen by inertia and a certain distaste for being productive unless its absolutely necessary. If you don't hear from me again, please tell the world my story.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,672
43,908
136
So, it wasn't a typo, which was my question.

Okay, then.

I mean, I had to first remember the previous occurrence, then look at it with my old man eyes to make sure it wasn't IQF, then google IOF, then think of what the 'O' might stand for (this wasn't hard, I possess high levels of smartness) then come here and confirm my supposition with you.

Navigating this minor issue has exhausted me. Time for a nap. And by "nap" I mean a second cup of coffee and perhaps a toke. It's a gray day. I feel anchored to my screen by inertia and a certain distaste for being productive unless its absolutely necessary. If you don't hear from me again, please tell the world my story.
I've been trying to go by IOF when in Gaza/WB and IDF when in Israel, i've likely messed up a few times due to anger issues.

/This whole situation is just making me more and more angry at a whole lot of shit and our hypocritical governments.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,014
38,481
136
In a poll conducted among Israelis 11/3, 76% want Netanyahu to resign. Four days ago the newspaper Yisrael Hayom, formerly one of his cheerleaders, said he should step down as well.


"I tried the chief of staff, the southern commander and the division commander — I know all of them — but nobody responded to me," Tibon, 62, tells NPR. When he finally encountered Israeli soldiers, Tibon asked them to continue south toward the front line with him."But their commander said, 'No, I need permission, I need orders,'" Tibon recalls. "At that time, I knew: This is chaos. Nobody's giving orders."

Tibon says he's never been a political man. But he calls what he witnessed that day a "colossal breakdown" of the Israeli security apparatus to which he devoted his career. And there's one person he blames.

"Benjamin Netanyahu cannot stay even one more day on the chair of the prime minister," Tibon says. "He is a failure and he must go."
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,005
2,275
136
In a poll conducted among Israelis 11/3, 76% want Netanyahu to resign. Four days ago the newspaper Yisrael Hayom, formerly one of his cheerleaders, said he should step down as well.


"I tried the chief of staff, the southern commander and the division commander — I know all of them — but nobody responded to me," Tibon, 62, tells NPR. When he finally encountered Israeli soldiers, Tibon asked them to continue south toward the front line with him."But their commander said, 'No, I need permission, I need orders,'" Tibon recalls. "At that time, I knew: This is chaos. Nobody's giving orders."

Tibon says he's never been a political man. But he calls what he witnessed that day a "colossal breakdown" of the Israeli security apparatus to which he devoted his career. And there's one person he blames.

"Benjamin Netanyahu cannot stay even one more day on the chair of the prime minister," Tibon says. "He is a failure and he must go."
Netanyahu's removal wont change anything on the battle front or general policy towards the Palestinians. He's become unpopular for a variety of reasons, not just the intel failure that allowed Hamas Oct 7 attack. But his response to it with the horrific onslaught onto Gaza is not one of them.

Whoever replaces him will continue that merciless path of death and destruction and to hell with the laws of the world or Palestinian rights and self-determination. The settlements will continue to expand until life becomes unbearable for the Pals and they eventually move out to neighboring countries or emigrate elsewhere. A slow ethnic cleansing unnoticeable by the rest of the world is or has been their goal all along regardless of who is PM.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,950
136
I’m sitting this one out because our (the US) involvement simply makes the matter worse for everyone.
One side uses ruthless tactics and oppression to keep populations in line. The use of the word “settler” bothers me in this context. Settler conjures images of someone moving to the wildness and building a house to do productive stuff. These settlers evict existing people from their homes then move into those homes.
The other side uses rockets to terrorize, captures civilians to cause terror, possibly intentionally bombs its own people to cause terror and I remember those people cheering during 9/11. Sort of hard to feel bad for them. They do need to be treated humanely.

I am sitting this one out guys.
 
Jul 27, 2020
17,892
11,679
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this whole thing is insane and so revealing
What are the borders of that Jewish nation?

The borders of the homeland of the Jews are the Euphrates in the east and the Nile in the southwest. [This would include the territory of multiple Middle Eastern countries as well as the territory that Israel controls today.]
So this never ends.

Palestinians sometimes use the slogan “From the river to the sea.” But what you’re saying is that from the river to the Nile is the Jewish homeland, correct?

Of course. If someone decides to invent a new religion today, who will decide the rules? The first nation that got the word from God, the promise from God—the first nation is the one who has the right to it.
What's to stop her from deciding that she and her people deserve the Entire World coz they were the first to receive God's word? That everyone else that came after them are illegitimate and her ancestors were supposed to not let that happen but she and her followers will make sure that Earth becomes the Holy Land it was always meant to be. She's the perfect religious nut for the next and FINAL World War
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,672
43,908
136
good ole' Israeli settlers outlining of their vision which is basically the vision of the current government, a sizeable number of Israelis, and has been for some time now.

this whole thing is insane and so revealing

no different than any other religious fanatics, insanely proud and unapologetic about their views
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,264
9,331
146
The use of the word “settler” bothers me in this context. Settler conjures images of someone moving to the wildness and building a house to do productive stuff. These settlers evict existing people from their homes then move into those homes.
Exactly like what our "settlers" did to the Native Americans!
 
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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,672
43,908
136
BTW we had a previous thread of over 300 replies in regards to what was happening in Israel/WB/Gaza showing the continued escalation of violence towards Palestinians


 
Reactions: MrSquished
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,950
136
Exactly like what our "settlers" did to the Native Americans!
Similar however not exactly. We’re talking land in the US sense and that took a lot of time. We are not talking get out of your house/apartment I am moving in.
The land is already tamed and developed in scenario two.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,881
20,192
136
no different than any other religious fanatics, insanely proud and unapologetic about their views

Of course, they sound just like maga. And I'm sure they sound just like the thousands of examples in history of the same type of thing happening. Whether in Stalin's Russia or Mao's China or extremist Muslims or whatever.

And that's exactly what's going to happen to this country if people don't start realizing who is the enemy.

But this is the threat about Israel so that's where that goes
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,014
38,481
136
Netanyahu's removal wont change anything on the battle front or general policy towards the Palestinians. He's become unpopular for a variety of reasons, not just the intel failure that allowed Hamas Oct 7 attack. But his response to it with the horrific onslaught onto Gaza is not one of them.

Whoever replaces him will continue that merciless path of death and destruction and to hell with the laws of the world or Palestinian rights and self-determination. The settlements will continue to expand until life becomes unbearable for the Pals and they eventually move out to neighboring countries or emigrate elsewhere. A slow ethnic cleansing unnoticeable by the rest of the world is or has been their goal all along regardless of who is PM.

I disagree.

A lot of Israelis seem to think it's a matter of accountability first and foremost. I'm also hearing a lot of Jewish people make the distinction between Hamas and innocents, outright saying the general policy towards Palestinians must change, that it can't be some Talmud sanctioned campaign of vengeance. Not just peaceniks either - IDF, Holocaust survivors, people who were in the kibbutzs that got attacked...

Let's not confuse agreement on the destruction of Hamas to mean agreement over the tactics used to accomplish it. I'll remind you Gantz is not a Likud nut and has no problem discussing inquiries about the Oct 7th attack right fucking now. Those journalists rumored to have known about the attack for instance. What is Bibi doin? Pleading with people not to worry about it until after his ethnic cleansing is done. Gantz is talking about getting a multi Arab security force to take over security in Gaza at some point, to hold it down until a Palestinian authority can phase in. Sounds a lot more realistic to me, rather than say, qouting scripture on how to annilate men, women and children.

If Bibi exits the picture I believe we will see things change a bit, Israel is slowly losing the narrative globally. They will adapt. I also don't think outraged Israelis are willing to wait for this 'indefinite' and about to get grueling war to end in order for him to talk about leaving. No shit, there is probably a small but not insignificent chance some retired IDF officer will try to kill the guy.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,680
6,195
126
I disagree.

A lot of Israelis seem to think it's a matter of accountability first and foremost. I'm also hearing a lot of Jewish people make the distinction between Hamas and innocents, outright saying the general policy towards Palestinians must change, that it can't be some Talmud sanctioned campaign of vengeance. Not just peaceniks either - IDF, Holocaust survivors, people who were in the kibbutzs that got attacked...

Let's not confuse agreement on the destruction of Hamas to mean agreement over the tactics used to accomplish it. I'll remind you Gantz is not a Likud nut and has no problem discussing inquiries about the Oct 7th attack right fucking now. Those journalists rumored to have known about the attack for instance. What is Bibi doin? Pleading with people not to worry about it until after his ethnic cleansing is done. Gantz is talking about getting a multi Arab security force to take over security in Gaza at some point, to hold it down until a Palestinian authority can phase in. Sounds a lot more realistic to me, rather than say, qouting scripture on how to annilate men, women and children.

If Bibi exits the picture I believe we will see things change a bit, Israel is slowly losing the narrative globally. They will adapt. I also don't think outraged Israelis are willing to wait for this 'indefinite' and about to get grueling war to end in order for him to talk about leaving. No shit, there is probably a small but not insignificent chance some retired IDF officer will try to kill the guy.
Certainly the best way to determine which of you is right is to get rid of him and see.
 
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