Israel: We Are At War

[MrSquished]

I personally am pleased the IDF showed restraint and did not bomb the hospital.

However a long time ago people decided turning hospitals into the 3rd strong point of a 3 way ambush was a bad idea and made the laws of war the way they are.

So yes, if such an action had occurred, you are correct, it would have been Hamas murdering everyone.

first of all they showed one small half pink room, on the CNN vid, called it an armory, and then showed literally like 5 or 6 rifles they found. if that's a military base to you, you on crack-cocaine.

They said they evacuated the whole hospital. amazing. So now all those patients and new people getting injured, have no way to get treated, many will die or be maimed for life.

because of a small pink room with a few rifles in it that otherwise looks like a kids playroom

your bloodlust is not becoming. zionism and pro zionism is an ugly thing.

 

[MrSquished]

So it isn't just Israeli propaganda that Hamas is using Hospitals as cover for their forces?

I really don't know they showed a completely non distinct pink room with like four rifles they 'found' and called it an armory.

Some people say it's a military base. I think it's pretty much debatable what it is at all.

What do you think it's proof of?

 

[Brovane]

I really don't know they showed a completely non distinct pink room with like four rifles they 'found' and called it an armory.

Some people say it's a military base. I think it's pretty much debatable what it is at all.

What do you think it's proof of?

So Hamas uses a bit of basement space to keep a few things including a few hostages

You are the one that said Hamas was using basement space to keep "things" including hostages.
That tells me it has been independently confirmed that Hamas is using Hospitals as cover for their forces.

 

[mikeymikec]

I'm surprised that the Israel apologists here haven't spent four pages of this thread verbally masturbating over the 'Mein Kampf' story given that the quality of argument from them has fallen so low that finding a handful of rifles constitutes uncovering a Hamas HQ and "Hamas is massacring Palestinians, not Israel" while Israel is saving Palestinians from Hamas by airstriking civilians into oblivion.

I thought when the whole "beheading babies" bullshit propaganda was fully exposed that Israel apologists might take a deep breath and not try to swallow obvious tripe hook, line and sinker, instead it seems to be getting worse. Not only that but even when Leeea's bullshit gets countered 3 ways at once they just carry on blathering with barely a pause to acknowledge any fault.

It would be as funny as fuck if I didn't have to factor in the fact that this is a real and live massacre we're talking about and the Israel apologists here no doubt are adults without any severe mental impediments.

 

[MrSquished]

So Hamas uses a bit of basement space to keep a few things including a few hostages

You are the one that said Hamas was using basement space to keep "things" including hostages.
That tells me it has been independently confirmed that Hamas is using Hospitals as cover for their forces.

Of course this is allegedly.

Why can't you answer my question. Do you find the finding of a small mostly pink painted room with really nothing in it but supposedly four to five rifles they found and called in an armory. What does that even mean so I can answer your questions.

Please don't let your bloodlust get in the way

 

[Brovane]

Of course this is allegedly.

Why can't you answer my question. Do you find the finding of a small mostly pink painted room with really nothing in it but supposedly four to five rifles they found and called in an armory. What does that even mean so I can answer your questions.

Please don't let your bloodlust get in the way

No it isn't allegedly, you even admitted that Hamas was using the basement.

Hamas is using Hospitals as cover for it's fighters. That is what terrorists do, shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

 

[Leeea]

I imagine you'd feel different if you were a Palestinian civilian.

Last pre-war poll had Palestinian civilians hating both Israel and Hamas. I would imagine they hate both even more now.

I thought when the whole "beheading babies" bullshit propaganda was fully exposed that Israel apologists might take a deep breath and not try to swallow obvious tripe hook, line and sinker, instead it seems to be getting worse. Not only that but even when Leeea's bullshit gets countered 3 ways at once they just carry on blathering with barely a pause to acknowledge any fault.

Hamas beheaded babies:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...beheaded-hamas-israel-fact-check/71394076007/

https://themedialine.org/top-storie...c-pathology-center-confirms-hamas-atrocities/

get out of your social media bubble.

Stop accepting Hamas propaganda as truth.

 

[Leeea]

first of all they showed one small half pink room, on the CNN vid, called it an armory, and then showed literally like 5 or 6 rifles they found. if that's a military base to you, you on crack-cocaine.

They said they evacuated the whole hospital. amazing. So now all those patients and new people getting injured, have no way to get treated, many will die or be maimed for life.

because of a small pink room with a few rifles in it that otherwise looks like a kids playroom

your bloodlust is not becoming. zionism and pro zionism is an ugly thing.

you didn't actually watch the video, did you?

it was part of a three way tunnel network, linking three buildings, and a longer tunnel extending to someplace they didn't know where.

They took fire from all three buildings including the hospital, three way ambush.

it is more then just hostages in a basement.


Live in denial all you want, but Hamas turned it into a military strong point, and used it to attack the IDF.

Of course this is allegedly.

Why can't you answer my question. Do you find the finding of a small mostly pink painted room with really nothing in it but supposedly four to five rifles they found and called in an armory. What does that even mean so I can answer your questions.

Please don't let your bloodlust get in the way

You realize at this point your not arguing about Hamas turning the hospital into a military asset.

Your arguing over how much of a military asset it was.

Your defending the indefensible.

 

[MrSquished]

you didn't actually watch the video, did you?

it was part of a three way tunnel network, linking three buildings, and a longer tunnel extending to someplace they didn't know where.

They took fire from all three buildings including the hospital, three way ambush.

it is more then just hostages in a basement.


Live in denial all you want, but Hamas turned it into a military strong point, and used it to attack the IDF.



You realize at this point your not arguing about Hamas turning the hospital into a military asset.

Your arguing over how much of a military asset it was.

Your defending the indefensible.

ok there were tunnels. and that one medium sized room was the military base. with a few rifles they could have picked up from nearby rubble. ok let's say this is damning damning evidence of major war operations. sure, let's go with the israeli narrative. who have been proven to be sadistic full of shit liars for over a decade now. but let's run with it for this discussion.

so, what do you think this justifies now? you keep saying now any deaths are on Hamas because of this massive evidence of a MILITARY BASE (your words)

so what do you think is now justified for Israel to do more than they have been doing?

I'm saying this evidence is completely allegedly and also very flimsy. I mean can you please explain how this is a military base to you for starters? and then let's run with that, and then tell me what that now allows Israel to do via it's warfare.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

and the last two pages or so are exactly why I am sitting this one out.

Yes it is wrong to blockade a hospital particularly in a conflict zone
Yes it is wrong to store weapons, explosives and hostages in that hospital.

One wrong does not excuse the other

 

[KMFJD]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1724579145064083784

well there you have it, invading a hospital with 7,000 patients and 1500 doctors/nurses/support

 

[Pens1566]

Uh ...

 

[MrSquished]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1724579145064083784

well there you have it, invading a hospital with 7,000 patients and 1500 doctors/nurses/support

All justified because of one medium sized pink former play room where who knows if there were even a few guns there or not, as if the terrorist propaganda Israeli state could not put together five long guns for a propaganda video, but does have some tunnels connecting, So could definitely be being used by Hamas but obviously nothing like a military base or where to stage big military operations from. Just look at it. Let's give them that Hamas probably used it. For passing through and maybe using that room a little, sure, and probably guys with guns were in there at some point. Maybe fleetingly or not, we'll never know, but now, Israel can really let loose. That is definitely justification to wreak havoc on 7000 patients and 1500 doctors and staff and all the people that needed taken care of.


These bloodlusting pro zionists will use that evidence to justify anything Israel does.

These people are monsters.

 

[KMFJD]

This had been the tweet, deleted now, video of people panicking , gunshots...

https://nitter.net/swilkinsonbc/status/1724579926362181898#m

 

[Leeea]

This had been the tweet, deleted now, video of people panicking , gunshots...

View attachment 88860

https://nitter.net/swilkinsonbc/status/1724579926362181898#m

That is horrifically tragic. Hopefully the Shifa hospital ceases to be a conflict zone as soon as possible. Hopefully the non-combatants at the hospital are unharmed in what is to come.

 

[Leeea]

All justified because of one medium sized pink former play room where who knows if there were even a few guns there or not, as if the terrorist propaganda Israeli state could not put together five long guns for a propaganda video, but does have some tunnels connecting, So could definitely be being used by Hamas but obviously nothing like a military base or where to stage big military operations from. Just look at it. Let's give them that Hamas probably used it. For passing through and maybe using that room a little, sure, and probably guys with guns were in there at some point. Maybe fleetingly or not, we'll never know, but now, Israel can really let loose. That is definitely justification to wreak havoc on 7000 patients and 1500 doctors and staff and all the people that needed taken care of.


These bloodlusting pro zionists will use that evidence to justify anything Israel does.

These people are monsters.

Rather sad thing.

If the Shifa hospital was not being used for military purposes, their would be no need to assault it. There would be nothing to shoot at. Nothing to justify. It would just hand itself over to the IDF as a non-combatant humanitarian facility.

 

[mikeymikec]

Last pre-war poll had Palestinian civilians hating both Israel and Hamas. I would imagine they hate both even more now.


Hamas beheaded babies:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...beheaded-hamas-israel-fact-check/71394076007/

https://themedialine.org/top-storie...c-pathology-center-confirms-hamas-atrocities/

get out of your social media bubble.

Stop accepting Hamas propaganda as truth.

I haven't accepted anyone's propaganda as truth. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; the lack of which points to a story being obvious propaganda.

Here's you making the claim:

Page 36 - Israel: We Are At War

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Even The Hill's assertions were shaky:

"“They cut heads of children, cut heads of women,” David Ben Zion, a deputy commander in the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF), said in an on-camera interview with Israeli television station i24 News."

"Nicole Zedeck, an i24 correspondent, said she had been told by soldiers that 40 babies had been killed in the attack, a figure that has widely been picked up elsewhere. "

"“The horrors that I’m hearing from these soldiers that … about 40 babies, at least, were taken out in gurneys,” Zedek said. “Still, right now, they’re going house to house, still evacuating dead bodies.”"

"Major Nir Dinar told Insider that forces had found the corpses of decapitated babies at the village but said he had not seen images or videos himself. He also could not confirm the number of casualties a soldier had told the i24 reporter."

And all you have to show for it is one news article from a source I've never heard of before that calls itself "Trusted Mideast News" and a bunch of hearsay about beheading. The original story broke across a number of major networks and they've all either walked it back or reported nothing further apart from the unsupported assertion. For example:

What we actually know about the viral report of beheaded babies in Israel

One journalist from the Tel Aviv-based news channel i24 said a soldier told her they had "witnessed… bodies of babies with their heads cut off" at the Kfar Aza kibbutz near the Gaza border - but no Israeli officials have confirmed the claim.

news.sky.com

Here's more walkbacks, including from Israel:

Page 40 - Israel: We Are At War

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As only a screenshot was provided for the bit about Israel, I've tracked down the article:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html

The Israeli government has not confirmed the specific claim that Hamas attackers cut off the heads of babies during their shock attack on Saturday, an Israeli official told CNN, contradicting a previous public statement by the Prime Minister’s office.


“There have been cases of Hamas militants carrying out beheadings and other ISIS-style atrocities. However, we cannot confirm if the victims were men or women, soldiers or civilians, adults or children,” the official said.

.... riiiiigh-t

Here's the reporter who broke the story. She claimed to have seen the atrocities herself, but strangely for a reporter pushing what would be a career-making story, she still has no evidence: no photos, no names, no interviews. Even obvious stuff like family / extended family claiming bodies, press conferences, statements from the bereaved families. Weird, don't you think?

Journalist slams doubts about her reporting of beheaded Israeli children: ‘I wish it wasn’t true’

“You know, it’s sickening, really, that people are asking, ‘Where are the babies? Why aren’t you showing the babies?’” Zedeck said. “Is that something that anyone would want to see the first thing …

nypost.com

Stop falling for bullshit because it suits your narrative.

 

[zinfamous]

Well, that is the thing.

This isn't Israel killing Palestinians.

It is Hamas killing Palestinians. They are the ones that turned humanitarian service into a military base. They bear the responsibility for what that means.

Every single civilian who dies in that area is the responsibility of Hamas.

--------------------------------------------

The same principle applies if your rob a store and get in a shoot out with the police. You are charged with Murder 1 for the death of any bystander even if it was the police who shot the bystander. By committing a premeditated violent felony, you are responsible for all of the death associated and will get the death penalty in a death penalty state.

The moment Hamas turned the hospital into a military target Hamas became 100% responsible for every bad thing that happens at said hospital. The IDF 0%. Every infant who dies in an incubator with no electricity, that is on Hamas now. It is all on Hamas now. Every shootout, every bomb that hits the area, everything.

Hamas is sadistically murdering Palestinians for propaganda gains. Nothing less. It is that simple. Black and white, no grey.



So tell me,

?

And how are you going to get Hamas to stop their Iranian sponsored genocide of the Palestinians to make that happen?


It is not the IDF that is preventing fuel from getting to the hospitals now.
It is not the IDF that is road blocking people from fleeing south.
It is not the IDF that is detonating IEDs on the refugee columns going south.
It is not the IDF that is trapping Palestinians in a warzone.
Egypt says it is Hamas that has closed the southern border crossing and is preventing aid. So does the US and Israel.


Hamas lied about allowing fuel transfers to the hospitals. Hamas lied about turning the hospitals into military bases. Hamas lied about bombing the refugee columns. Noticing a pattern here now.

this is the same logic as the GQP argument that the Democrats made them vote for Trump, by being democrats. It's the same. Why are you making this argument? Only children and republicans make this argument. Why does Israel have no agency in their war strategy?

The difference here, though, is that the argument is being made in service of making one comfortable with accepting what is very obviously ethnic cleansing. So...there's that. This isn't the sort of thing I expected from you. But I mean, convenient that you seem hard at work crafting an argument for the Likud and the IDF when they have to answer to the Hague.

 

[zinfamous]

That was a military base to you? That's fascinating. So Hamas uses a bit of basement space to keep a few things including a few hostages, and now everyone in the hospital, hundreds of doctors and staff and patients, and it's justified to just kill them all and it's Hamas's fault? Bomb the hostages too, what fun!

You should do better. This is absolutely disgusting.

Yeah I don't get it. IDF claims to find an on-occupied storage space wtih signs of Hamas activity...abandoned who knows how long ago. But this is all the evidence they need that all hospitals are targets?

This is fucking insane. How did so many people here become so insanely stupid and bloodthirsty after this?

 

[zinfamous]

Hamas legally took responsibility for everyone's actions. Their own actions, the IDF's actions, random people running around the area in a panic, the insane guy on level three, everything. That is what happened here. You don't have to like it. But that is the way it is.

No.

This is low level thinking encouraged by bloodlust and vengeance. It's not that it isn't natural, but it's lizard brain thinking that modern humans should be able to work through. You seem to have stopped at that instance on October 7 and haven't progressed at all.

You need to get better, dude.

 

[zinfamous]

I'm surprised that the Israel apologists here haven't spent four pages of this thread verbally masturbating over the 'Mein Kampf' story given that the quality of argument from them has fallen so low that finding a handful of rifles constitutes uncovering a Hamas HQ and "Hamas is massacring Palestinians, not Israel" while Israel is saving Palestinians from Hamas by airstriking civilians into oblivion.

I thought when the whole "beheading babies" bullshit propaganda was fully exposed that Israel apologists might take a deep breath and not try to swallow obvious tripe hook, line and sinker, instead it seems to be getting worse. Not only that but even when Leeea's bullshit gets countered 3 ways at once they just carry on blathering with barely a pause to acknowledge any fault.

It would be as funny as fuck if I didn't have to factor in the fact that this is a real and live massacre we're talking about and the Israel apologists here no doubt are adults without any severe mental impediments.

Also, you have to wonder why Israel clearly has no interest in the safety of the hostages if they are just targeting civilian structures and known tunnels. You don't save hostages by bombiung the fuck out of things. You go do soldier work and fight. But this is not in their interest.

"Oh! But urban warfare is dangerous! We can't risk our own soldiers!" Fuck off bitches. You made this bed by terrorizing the ever loving fuck out of your neighbors, and now you get to do the war you always wanted. There is absolutely no excuse for this ethnic cleansing, and no fucking sensible way that any kind of advanced western democratic human could ever support Israel in this. It's goddamn insane to keep supporting their words when they run so extremely counter to their actions.

Are we actually going to ask why IDF is absolutely not prosecuting this war as if there are several hundred hostages to rescue?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Are we actually going to ask why IDF is absolutely not prosecuting this war as if there are several hundred hostages to rescue?

Near as I can tell, current IDF war doctrine is to just verify a building is free of hostages prior to flattening it.

 

[mikeymikec]

Also, you have to wonder why Israel clearly has no interest in the safety of the hostages if they are just targeting civilian structures and known tunnels. You don't save hostages by bombiung the fuck out of things. You go do soldier work and fight. But this is not in their interest.

"Oh! But urban warfare is dangerous! We can't risk our own soldiers!" Fuck off bitches. You made this bed by terrorizing the ever loving fuck out of your neighbors, and now you get to do the war you always wanted. There is absolutely no excuse for this ethnic cleansing, and no fucking sensible way that any kind of advanced western democratic human could ever support Israel in this. It's goddamn insane to keep supporting their words when they run so extremely counter to their actions.

Are we actually going to ask why IDF is absolutely not prosecuting this war as if there are several hundred hostages to rescue?

Yup, I covered another aspect of the lunacy of the airstrikes tactic here:

Page 91 - Israel: We Are At War

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No counterpoints to that, no surprise there.

 

[Muse]

Also, you have to wonder why Israel clearly has no interest in the safety of the hostages if they are just targeting civilian structures and known tunnels. You don't save hostages by bombiung the fuck out of things. You go do soldier work and fight. But this is not in their interest.

"Oh! But urban warfare is dangerous! We can't risk our own soldiers!" Fuck off bitches. You made this bed by terrorizing the ever loving fuck out of your neighbors, and now you get to do the war you always wanted. There is absolutely no excuse for this ethnic cleansing, and no fucking sensible way that any kind of advanced western democratic human could ever support Israel in this. It's goddamn insane to keep supporting their words when they run so extremely counter to their actions.

Are we actually going to ask why IDF is absolutely not prosecuting this war as if there are several hundred hostages to rescue?

Someone hand this guy a handkerchief.

 

[Brovane]

Yeah I don't get it. IDF claims to find an on-occupied storage space wtih signs of Hamas activity...abandoned who knows how long ago. But this is all the evidence they need that all hospitals are targets?

This is fucking insane. How did so many people here become so insanely stupid and bloodthirsty after this?

You left off a key bit of information. There was direct evidence that hostages at one point had been kept at that Hospital. Israel is going to want to search all Hospitals for hostages. Which means sending in ground troops to occupy the Hospitals. Hamas could at any time withdraw from the areas around the Hospitals but they don't.