Israel: We Are At War

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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,936
20,212
136
So they're alive, means Israel is doing a good job of targeting Hamas terrorists and not civilians.

LOL at all the idiots believing Hamas propaganda.

definitely. virtually no civilian deaths in Gaza and totally looks like pinpoint surgical strikes and nothing more from the photos and videos out there.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,678
24,987
136
So they're alive, means Israel is doing a good job of targeting Hamas terrorists and not civilians.

LOL at all the idiots believing Hamas propaganda.

Wow, a bit early in the day to be drunk isn't it?

This conflict is an absolute shit show. The roots run deep, the shit heads on both sides have long needed each other to remain in power and keep their respective people living in fear. What Hamas did on 10/7 was absolutely wrong and terrorist act and Israel has a right to find and hold those responsible for 10/7 responsible. In the month since the latest round started Israel has dropped more bombs on Gaza than the US did in a year in Afghanistan. More than 4,000 children have been killed in Gaza. I'm not sure how you remotely get "Israel is doing a good job of targeting Hamas terrorists and not civilians" from that information. The US Government which has been very supportive of Israel has even stated that it is likely that the current death toll in Gaza is an UNDERCOUNT because of the widespread break down in communications and emergency services.

I want Hamas gone. I want the current Israeli right wing government gone. I want a real solution that both sides are willing to live with so the fucking killing on BOTH sides will stop. Israelis and Palestinians all deserve to live in peace and build lives and futures that are fulfilling.

My only hope is the current shit show will shock both sides to the point that enough voices will demand a real solution and end to the cycles of violence that have now gone on for 75 years.

To be clear though the current Israeli government is not blameless, their policy choices and actions or lack of action created an environment in which Hamas could thrive and husband resources for years to make a move like this. But anyone who thinks Hamas is going to be "destroyed" solely by military action is a fucking moron. Hamas is also a political movement with resources outside of the Gaza strip so military action alone will NOT achieve Israel's stated policy goals. The only way a lasting end to the cycles of violence will come is at a negotiating table (like almost all wars).
 
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Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,698
5,432
136
I haven't accepted anyone's propaganda as truth. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; the lack of which points to a story being obvious propaganda.

Here's you making the claim:

Even The Hill's assertions were shaky:

"“They cut heads of children, cut heads of women,” David Ben Zion, a deputy commander in the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF), said in an on-camera interview with Israeli television station i24 News."

"Nicole Zedeck, an i24 correspondent, said she had been told by soldiers that 40 babies had been killed in the attack, a figure that has widely been picked up elsewhere. "

"“The horrors that I’m hearing from these soldiers that … about 40 babies, at least, were taken out in gurneys,” Zedek said. “Still, right now, they’re going house to house, still evacuating dead bodies.”"

"Major Nir Dinar told Insider that forces had found the corpses of decapitated babies at the village but said he had not seen images or videos himself. He also could not confirm the number of casualties a soldier had told the i24 reporter."

And all you have to show for it is one news article from a source I've never heard of before that calls itself "Trusted Mideast News" and a bunch of hearsay about beheading. The original story broke across a number of major networks and they've all either walked it back or reported nothing further apart from the unsupported assertion. For example:


Here's more walkbacks, including from Israel:

As only a screenshot was provided for the bit about Israel, I've tracked down the article:



.... riiiiigh-t

Here's the reporter who broke the story. She claimed to have seen the atrocities herself, but strangely for a reporter pushing what would be a career-making story, she still has no evidence: no photos, no names, no interviews. Even obvious stuff like family / extended family claiming bodies, press conferences, statements from the bereaved families. Weird, don't you think?

Stop falling for bullshit because it suits your narrative.
you didn't even read what I linked.

On the other hand, I have read what you have linked.

Timeline matters.

Look at the dates.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...beheaded-hamas-israel-fact-check/71394076007/
2023-10-31

https://themedialine.org/top-storie...c-pathology-center-confirms-hamas-atrocities/
2023-11-03 - this is a report on the investigation which included foreign volunteers

The articles you are attempting to refute with are from:
2023-10-10
2023-10-12
2023-10-12
2023-10-12
2023-10-11

Stop falling for bullshit because it suits your narrative.
Stop ignoring the results of an forensic teams multi-week investigation because it didn't satisfy your instant gratification social media bubble.


Hamas beheaded infants.
The forensic team was unable to determine if it was before or after death, but really, does it matter?
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,698
5,432
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Shifa hospital raid officially confirmed:
The Israeli military entered al-Shifa Hospital, Gaza’s largest, in what the Israel Defense Forces called a “precise and targeted operation against Hamas.” A doctor at the hospital described to The Washington Post “continuous shootings and bombings around the hospital” where thousands of patients, staff and displaced Gazans remain.

An Israeli military statement said troops “encountered explosives and terrorist squads” in the fight for entry, though a military-run news outlet said forces searching the hospital had so far not found any sign of hostages on-site.
it is not clear if the raid has ended or not.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,041
10,222
136
you didn't even read what I linked.

On the other hand, I have read what you have linked.

Timeline matters.

Look at the dates.

I did. Now read what I wrote, even bearing the dates in mind. My point still stands, because nothing has changed, no updated articles or anything.

Stop ignoring the results of an forensic teams multi-week investigation because it didn't satisfy your instant gratification social media bubble.

Results?

themedialine said:
Kugel also explained that the age range of the victims spans from 3 months to 80 or 90 years old. Many bodies, including those of babies, are without heads.

Asked if they were decapitated, Kugel answered yes. Although he admits that, given the circumstances, it’s difficult to ascertain whether they were decapitated before or after death, as well as how they were beheaded, “whether cut off by knife or blown off by RPG,” he explained.

That's the totality of the evidence you've seen to support your argument. Two paragraphs. No identification of any bodies, no evidence to link it to Hamas, nothing.

If this story was reversed (Hamas claiming that IDF had beheaded up to 40 children), you would have written this straight off as Hamas propaganda. For me it doesn't matter which side is claiming it, because I look at the evidence.

What I would want to see to believe a claim of an incident involving multi-baby-beheading is factual:

* Who are they (the victims)
* Bereaved families
* Press conferences involving the bereaved
* Funerals for those who died
* Multiple major news sources looking into the incident
* Evidence that autopsies have been conducted and the autopsy evidence peer-reviewed by an independent source
* Eye-witness accounts - preferably CCTV - of the beheadings

Furthermore, usually the people who do this shit are proud of it, there have been plenty of occasions where the perpetrators take videos and use it as part of broadcasting their terrorist act to the world.

You've got none of the above, not even proof that the alleged victims even existed. You've got a claim that some kind of medical examination occurred, and that's it.

If you attempt to evade the points I'm making then as far as I'm concerned you're not worth wasting any more of my time with. Either concede the point or argue it honestly.
 
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Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,698
5,432
136
The Israelis are monsters. The people who keep defending this, and this hospital attack. They are all absolutely disgusting.
I think people who are unable to provide any realistic plan to hold Hamas accountable for their actions are disgusting.

I think people who blame Israel for this and then ignore Iran, Qatar, and Hamas are disgusting.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,698
5,432
136
* Eye-witness accounts - preferably CCTV - of the beheadings
all the witnesses are being murdered, and you need video evidence.

And your saying I am the biased one here?


-----------------------------------------------------

Now that the argument has changed from Hamas has never beheaded infants to:
Hamas has accidentally beheaded infants with RPGs

What are the odds of multiple infants being beheaded by RPGs?
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,936
20,212
136
I think people who are unable to provide any realistic plan to hold Hamas accountable for their actions are disgusting.

I think people who blame Israel for this and then ignore Iran, Qatar, and Hamas are disgusting.

Nice straw man arguments to make your blood lust feel ok.

Where have I ignored Iran or Qatar or given Hamas a pass?

Absolutely nowhere. This is all bullshit projection in your head to justify your pro war atrocities stance, and to make you feel better about all the bloodlust rooting for.
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,041
10,222
136
all the witnesses are being murdered, and you need video evidence.

And your saying I am the biased one here?

Obviously a reasonable person adjusts their expectations of the level of evidence depending on the circumstances of the alleged event.

The fact that this was all you had to say in response to my argument was certainly the clearest and most concise indicator you could have given me that you're not worth wasting any further time with.

- edit - I just noticed your edit:

Now that the argument has changed from Hamas has never beheaded infants to:
Hamas has accidentally beheaded infants with RPGs

What are the odds of multiple infants being beheaded by RPGs?

Uh, nice straw man. Your grasp of the topic remains as tenuous as ever.
 
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RnR_au

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2021
1,822
4,452
106
Umm.... wut?!?!

"You did not inform us before attacking Israel. Now don't expect Iran's support."

Khamenei complained to Haniyeh for keeping Tehran in the dark: Iran will not intervene in Hamas' war with Israel.
Source

I believe Hezbollah has been quiet the last few days.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,678
24,987
136
I think people who are unable to provide any realistic plan to hold Hamas accountable for their actions are disgusting.

I think people who blame Israel for this and then ignore Iran, Qatar, and Hamas are disgusting.
Israel did ship suit cases of cash to Hamas.
 
Reactions: Leeea

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,698
5,432
136
View attachment 88886

Seems flimsy at best, reminds me of the shit Russia was throwing at the wall during their invasion of Ukraine (anyone remember the 3 copies of the sims picture - https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-agents-the-sims-video-game-sting-operation-2022-4?op=1 )
That is pretty pathetic.

Thing is we know there is more.


Israel built the bunker and secure operating room under Shifa hospital back when Israel ran Gaza. That is why everyone knows it is there.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,859
34,806
136
This has drawn a lot more heat than Tehran or Hezbollah is really interested in at this time with multiple carrier groups and enough western air power prowling around to deal deal them some serious setbacks.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,936
20,212
136
View attachment 88886

Seems flimsy at best, reminds me of the shit Russia was throwing at the wall during their invasion of Ukraine (anyone remember the 3 copies of the sims picture - https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-agents-the-sims-video-game-sting-operation-2022-4?op=1 )

If people want to believe this and the pink room are evidence of the major military base, the 'heartbeat of Hamas' according to Israelis, then I have a friend named Donald Trump and we have a bridge to sell you.

This is just obscene at this point. You can't make this shit up, these people are sick as fuck.
 
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