Israel: We Are At War

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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
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Just a short piece on the challenges facing Egypt and the Rafah border crossing.
 
Jan 25, 2011
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Israeli journalist Oren Ziv claims, during his tour of “Kfar Azza”, we saw no evidence that “Hamas was massacring children”. It is regrettable that “Israel” is now using these false allegations to intensify the bombing of Gaza.

Since the Israeli army is also denying these things happened it seems they aren’t using it for anything correct? Am I misunderstanding that they denied it happened?
 
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JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,774
919
126

Ian Bremmer gives a run down on what's led up to this and where it might be headed.
 

Zor Prime

Golden Member
Nov 7, 1999
1,023
588
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I might consider voting for indefinite flooding of the whole damn place. Problem is, that isn't a solution. You'd have these people on triremes or canoes going from one contested diving location to the next murdering one another.

I wonder how this is going to affect Intel. Intel wouldn't be Intel today if it weren't for the Israelis.
 

gothuevos

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2010
2,088
1,734
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Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,698
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136
Since the Israeli army is also denying these things happened it seems they aren’t using it for anything correct? Am I misunderstanding that they denied it happened?
There seem to be conflicting reports.

Israeli journalist Oren Ziv claims, during his tour of “Kfar Azza”, we saw no evidence that “Hamas was massacring children”. It is regrettable that “Israel” is now using these false allegations to intensify the bombing of Gaza.

a yes, X, well known for its promotion of misinformation.



It is interesting here the debate isn't about Hamas murdering children, it is about whether they beheaded them or not.

Take a step back and think about that.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,950
569
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Israel has been thwarting the peace process in many ways for a looong time, including building settlements against UN agreements to keep making the Palestinian lands smaller and smaller.

also in 2014 Palestinian leadership, with Hamas, agreed to acknowledge Israel as a state with a peace agreement. Israel only got more aggressive since then. The radical government and right wing wackos don't want peace. They want a full Israeli state, annex all the Palestinian land.
I agree that both sides have had some serious issues, more deep that I will ever truly understand. But Hamas just did the worst thing possible for Palestine. They got most of the civilized world to hate them all at the same time. Now Israel doesn't even need to do much, Hamas just destroyed Palestine. I feel absolutely horrible for the innocents that are caught in the middle of all of this. I feel bad for what has happened because of Religion/beliefs again.

All of this is just more proof that Humans as a species are horrible.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
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I agree that both sides have had some serious issues, more deep that I will ever truly understand. But Hamas just did the worst thing possible for Palestine. They got most of the civilized world to hate them all at the same time. Now Israel doesn't even need to do much, Hamas just destroyed Palestine. I feel absolutely horrible for the innocents that are caught in the middle of all of this. I feel bad for what has happened because of Religion/beliefs again.

All of this is just more proof that Humans as a species are horrible.
This is why the response is more complicated than just flatten Gaza. Thay must have known that would be the likely world sentiment. Is Israel about to give them what they want?

Colon Powell had a pottery barn rule. You break it you own it. Israel is about to be responsible for the lives of millions of Palestinians.
 
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Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,698
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The BBC reporter was on the scene.


This is not going away.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,950
569
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This is why the response is more complicated than just flatten Gaza. Thay must have known that would be the likely world sentiment. Is Israel about to give them what they want?

Colon Powell had a pottery barn rule. You break it you own it. Israel is about to be responsible for the lives of millions of Palestinians.
Oh Israel already has a plan for Palestinians... apartheid. They have been implementing it over the past 60 years. Look I get it, Britan screwed over the middle east when they basically created Israel indirectly. Both sides have been between a rock and a hard place for a LONG time.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
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Transcript of Biden's speech:

quoting a portion of it:
Parents butchered using their bodies to try to protect their children.

Stomach-turning reports of being — babies being killed.
Seeing that show up in Biden's speech means he is committing to that narrative also.

That speech was yesterday, likely written before we saw reports here.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
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"I can't believe they savagely murdered us!" says a bunch of people that were endlessly warned about being savagely murdered by those people in response to destroying homes, kidnapping and murdering residents of internationally-recognized communities while illegally occupying their land.

It's not at all victim blaming, not in any way. It's just other people wondering why those people keep using their nonsense mysticism as justification for their horrid and inexcusable subjugation of other nations of people, then demand pity when the very well-known--also inexcusable--consequences of their actions were met.

"Why did that bear attack me?!!! All I did was poke it 10,000 times!"

It's absolutely impossible for me to imagine a reality that Netanhayu, and especially that fucking Nazi Benny Gantz didn't invite this attack through "negligence"

There savage ramping up of pushing settlers into Palestinian neighborhoods over the last year, especially, has been surgical in intent.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,523
27,825
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This is why the response is more complicated than just flatten Gaza. Thay must have known that would be the likely world sentiment. Is Israel about to give them what they want?

Colon Powell had a pottery barn rule. You break it you own it. Israel is about to be responsible for the lives of millions of Palestinians.
Israel has been responsible for the people living under its rule since its founding. It just does a shitty job of living up to its obligations.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
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The story lives on.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/inbar-lieberman-nir-am-kibbutz-hamas-attackers-dead/
The Israeli Defence Forces said up to 40 babies were killed, with some ‘burned alive’ and others ‘beheaded,’ it has been claimed by Israel.
Local security are said to have fought against Hamas for 17 hours before backup arrived.
"We have heard of 40 young boys, some of them were burnt alive, some were beheaded, some were shot in the head," Israel's economics minister Nir Barkat said.

And even if that exact number were not found at a single location, the massacre was rather intense and widespread.
We should not doubt children were among the dead, even if there are questions on specific numbers.

CNN: Children found ‘butchered’ in Israeli kibbutz in an ISIS style of killing, IDF says, as horror of Hamas’ attacks emerge

again, Israel says....all other savage atrocities have been publicly shown, by Hamas themselves. If they are the savages that we already know them to be, why wouldn't they also happily show these things?

It's why it is important to actually verify this stuff. The "murder of babies" is an eons-long message to justify genocide, especially in that region of the world. This isn't really anything new, and we of course "know that it happens" because thousand+ year old historians documenting their armies victories have always claimed this to be the case about the savage people that they have exterminated, time and time again.

Thankfully, we're at a part of human history and culture, social development, where most of us appreciate that there are now actual standards in information vetting. There are very real consequences, intentionally so, for creating stories like this.

It baffles me that Hamas would happily share all of the other savage things that they absolutely did, except for this one thing. People here have already defended the unverified reporting on this with "well, why would it make a difference whether or not they did do that? look at what they've already done!" Exactly, I say. Why wouldn't they share that, considering everything else.

It's very tough, of course, but claw your way through serious emotions right now and try to think clearly. Much depends on collective rationality in moments like this.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,698
5,432
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The beheading babies story is really bad for innocent Gaza civilians caught in the middle.

It is going to bubble to the top of headlines around the world. It is real. And while everyone is reacting in horror Israel will be allowed to do whatever it wants in Gaza.


This is exactly what Hamas wanted.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Countries around the world including this one when it comes to redressing the oppression of their minorities mostly fail. They then wonder why future generations carry a grudge.

Example, in the United States there are survivors of the Tulsa race massacre that are still fighting in court today to get compensated. We did it for the interned Japanese from WW2 but the survivors and descendants of Tulsa have been left out in the cold.

This country has also never done the right thing for Native Americans.
 

gothuevos

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2010
2,088
1,734
136
The beheading babies story is really bad for innocent Gaza civilians caught in the middle.

It is going to bubble to the top of headlines around the world. It is real. And while everyone is reacting in horror Israel will be allowed to do whatever it wants in Gaza.


This is exactly what Hamas wanted.

Oof, nevermind
 
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