Israel: We Are At War

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iRONic

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2006
7,107
2,409
136
I'll be 70 sometime next summer. This shit has been going on my entire life. I'm done.
I turned 64 two weeks ago. I never thought I’d even be ALIVE to see some of the things going on worldwide now actually get to these tipping points!!
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,162
3,858
136
Interesting point about the difference in professionality between IDF reservists and Hamas fighters. When a Hamas fighter dies, a soldier is killed. All that person did was train to fight and die against Israel, its really a strain or burden on the system being "lifted" from Palestine since presumably that soldier does not have a day job and doesn't actually "produce" anything.

When an IDF reservist dies, a soldier is killed, but also a Lawyer/Doctor/Professor/Businessman/Engineer, etc someone with an actual future within the state of Israel and (given the contributions to science/engineering/etc that have come from Israel) for the entire world.

Certainly speaks to the difference in attitude between Israel and Hamas in terms of the relative value of their fighters (why Israel will release 1000's of Hamas fighters for the release of one reservist).

The difference is elsewhere, the hamas fighter has a job but not in the same context as an israeli who has possibly a very good standard of life, nice house or appartment, recent car and all the rest, you wont want to abandon such a cool life that easily for a conflict over wich you have no control even if there s elections, there s of course burned heads who think that they are invincible but not sure that they are a majority.

On the other hand the hamas fighter has limited standard of life and no real future, so he has not much to lose in the deal, that s either dying now while fighting or dying later the slow way out of misery, or out of being randomly torned apart by the next bombings like in 2014 when 2500+ palestinians were slaughtered because Olmert thought that a massacre would be a good idea to win the soon to come elections...
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,790
20,147
136
Israel has created an apartheid state and shown they have zero interest in any solution that gives the Palestinians anything remotely resembling a respectable existance. When you persecute people that much for so long, a lot of them have nothing left to lose. You have beaten them down and they are cornered seeing no way out due to your behavior. Of course there will be blowback, which is why Bibi wanted this to happen, so he could put down the hammer and make the pro zionists happy by demolishing Gaza.
 
Reactions: Oyeve and amenx

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,684
5,419
136
its really a strain or burden on the system being "lifted" from Palestine since presumably that soldier does not have a day job and doesn't actually "produce" anything
your looking at it wrong.

A Hamas soldier brings money into Palestine, his salary is paid for by Iran.

He is providing for his family, bringing money into his nation, putting food on the table, putting money into his local economy.


He is not a burden to Palestine, he is a burden to Iran, and in an area controlled by Hamas, where the rules are set by Hamas, in a way he is for a time, an asset to his family. One of the few regular jobs to be had that pays "good" money in that area. A person who can make sure his family is not victimized by Hamas.


We might not like it, but it is an understandable choice. The fact he is terrorist does not change the fact he is a professional soldier that will be better trained and better prepared then the vast majority of what the IDF has to oppose him with. Yes, he has to die, but do not think for a second killing him will be remotely easy.
 
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rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,389
3,120
146
Um, the paystub at the end, the Hamas soldier/terrorist, that is all he did his entire life.

He had family, kids, health insurance benefits, etc. The Hamas soldiers/terrorists are career professionals.

3 years in the IDF does not compare to a guy who just spent the last decade preparing to fight a war in his own home.

That is their job. That is all they do. That are not lawyers. The are not accountants. They are soldiers.

Yes the IDF has a professional core, but after call up many professional units became skeleton for reserves.

They do have a few remaining professional regiments. The ghosts sf regiment comes to mind. But those regiments don't have the numbers to push Hamas.

Getting paid to do something doesn't automatically make you good at it. Nor does skill automatically overcome massive overmatches in tech and numbers. Iraqi Republican Guard anyone?

Training opportunities for Hamas are a little thin I think.
 
Reactions: Leeea

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,684
5,419
136
Hezbollah and Hamas both have the same weakness, their salary's are paid for by Iran.

Israel should not do a ground assault into Gaza at all. Just besiege the place and start hitting Iranian ports. Drive Iran into destitution, end the financing, end the war.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,684
5,419
136
Getting paid to do something doesn't automatically make you good at it. Nor does skill automatically overcome massive overmatches in tech and numbers. Iraqi Republican Guard anyone?

Training opportunities for Hamas are a little thin I think.
Memorize the tunnel network. Memorize the underground IED locations, where the detonators are. Memorize the fall back plans, the pop up points, run the exercises. Practice with setting up the directional mines. Practice rifle skills (they have ammo production in Gaza). Weapons drills. Practice light infantry tactics. Setup netting on building defensive locations. Setup decoy defensive locations. Just keep setting up locations, interlocking firing positions. Practice moving between them. Practice moving crew served weapons between them.

Don't assume your enemy is incompetent because you want them to be.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,684
5,419
136
I find it interesting that none of the Arab States will allow the displaced safe shelter.
Internal security. Allowing Palestinian refugees is also allowing a large quantity of Iranian security problems into ones borders. Most Arab states are in direct opposition to Iran. They don't want to deal with a proxy Iranian insurgency.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,778
10,285
136
I'm reminded of the show "Kings" which takes place in a fictionalized Middle East between two warring states - Gilboa and Gath. Gilboa is economically prosperous, while Gath struggles for existence.
During peace negotiations, the Gath party says they want territories before the war so they can rebuild their country. The King of Gilboa eventually relents, realizing that prosperity is the cost of peace - literally. He hands over Port Prosperity (obviously named) so Gath can build itself a brighter future.

What am I getting at here? So long as there is violence, there will never be peace. Prosperity is the cost of peace.
 
Reactions: KompuKare

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,162
3,858
136
Hezbollah and Hamas both have the same weakness, their salary's are paid for by Iran.

Israel should not do a ground assault into Gaza at all. Just besiege the place and start hitting Iranian ports. Drive Iran into destitution, end the financing, end the war.

Hamas is subsided by Iran but also by Qatar, in this latter case the money get first to israel before landing in Hamas hands one way or another, be it to pay for energy, water and other social services.
There s also other countries like Algeria who give some money since the algerian president met with the Hamas head last year, and there s surely other arab/muslim countries that give some pitance through obscure circuits as a mean to wash their conscience...
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,005
2,275
136
How does what appears to be his social media post factor into your reasoning? Is anyone going to argue that the post in question wasn't anti-Semitic?
Took 6 years for anyone to say something that basically amounts to nothing. Corbyn being a socialist naturally does not respect or identify with the moneyed elite that many socialists view comes at the expense of the common man. Rockefeller being a prominent wealthy elite (who just so happens to be Jewish), in the mural does not in any way suggest anti-semitism except in the most opportunistic, politically motivated mind. Several other responders to L.Bergers tweet were similarly befuddled at this nonsense.

Pretty sure it came about when Corbyn, by 2018, began drawing attention to his pro-Palestinian, anti-Zionist stance which triggered the Zios into action. Really pathetic that anyone would make something out of this.

Weaponising Anti-Semitism: How the Israel Lobby Brought Down Jeremy Corbyn
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,006
10,186
136
Took 6 years for anyone to say something that basically amounts to nothing.
What has a number of years got to do with anything? If someone dropped the N-word 6 years ago, does that make it any better or worse? The stated reason for the delay was a journalist coming across it somewhat later, which makes sense considering he was a back-bencher his whole career and then abruptly became leader of the party; he would have been under somewhat greater scrutiny following his sudden rise to power. If say Trump made some POS statement 6 years before he became President, the only people who would be trying to excuse it for similar reasons would be Trump supporters.

Rockefeller being a prominent wealthy elite (who just so happens to be Jewish), in the mural does not in any way suggest anti-semitism except in the most opportunistic, politically motivated mind. Several other responders to L.Bergers tweet were similarly befuddled at this nonsense.
An Illuminati logo, a bunch of guys with caricature Jewish characteristics around a table with a stack of money in the middle, with the table stacked on top of the backs of the less fortunate? It's an explicit reference to the conspiracy theory that Jewish people run the world.

If you want to play dumb that's your business, but it's not a respectable argument position.
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,005
2,275
136
I find it interesting that none of the Arab States will allow the displaced safe shelter.
If that ever happened Israel would bar them from ever coming back. To Israel it would be the ultimate gift on a silver platter, no more Palestinians. No Arab state would want to absorb 2 million Pals that would pose a huge economic burden or security threat may one day destabilize them (like what happened to Jordan after the 67 war.
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,005
2,275
136
An Illuminati logo, a bunch of guys with caricature Jewish characteristics around a table with a stack of money in the middle, with the table stacked on top of the backs of the less fortunate? It's an explicit reference to the conspiracy theory that Jewish people run the world.

If you want to play dumb that's your business, but it's not a respectable argument position.
The Illuminati are not a Jewish group or conspiracy involving Jews or associated with Jews! Do your f'ing homework before commenting on crap you know little about.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,389
3,120
146
Memorize the tunnel network. Memorize the underground IED locations, where the detonators are. Memorize the fall back plans, the pop up points, run the exercises. Practice with setting up the directional mines. Practice rifle skills (they have ammo production in Gaza). Weapons drills. Practice light infantry tactics. Setup netting on building defensive locations. Setup decoy defensive locations. Just keep setting up locations, interlocking firing positions. Practice moving between them. Practice moving crew served weapons between them.

Don't assume your enemy is incompetent because you want them to be.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not assuming them to be incompetent. I’m not ready to build them up too much either. Look at the performance career Russian soldiers have given in Ukraine. Some pretty good, some… not so much.
 
Reactions: Leeea

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,684
5,419
136
Hamas is subsided by Iran but also by Qatar, in this latter case the money get first to israel before landing in Hamas hands one way or another, be it to pay for energy, water and other social services.
There s also other countries like Algeria who give some money since the algerian president met with the Hamas head last year, and there s surely other arab/muslim countries that give some pitance through obscure circuits as a mean to wash their conscience...
Qatar is even more vulnerable then Iran.

Israel can just play hardball with Qatar, no need for violence. Just the threat of it would be enough.

Soft power states like Qatar are fine are a good way to influence the world stage, but when they start meddling with terrorist networks they need to understand the possibly of hard power consequences.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,497
4,593
136
Internal security. Allowing Palestinian refugees is also allowing a large quantity of Iranian security problems into ones borders. Most Arab states are in direct opposition to Iran. They don't want to deal with a proxy Iranian insurgency.


Maybe the USA could take some notes from the Arab States.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,497
4,593
136
If that ever happened Israel would bar them from ever coming back. To Israel it would be the ultimate gift on a silver platter, no more Palestinians. No Arab state would want to absorb 2 million Pals that would pose a huge economic burden or security threat may one day destabilize them (like what happened to Jordan after the 67 war.

So the Arab States would just as soon let them die?
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,684
5,419
136
Maybe the USA could take some notes from the Arab States.
I don't know if you noticed, but the USA and the entirety of Europe is not letting them in either.

So the Arab States would just as soon let them die?
Yep. Curious that at the end of the day the only people who actually care about them are the Israelis.

Everyone else is just hot air.
 
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