Do you think the citizens of a country should be blamed for the actions of their government?
Two liberal fools make the same foolish error in judgement. Lol
even i agree that this thread sucks. it will eventually die a slow death. LIKE THE PALESTINIANS ARE DOING NOW DUE TO THE BLOCKADE AND ILLEGAL ATTACK IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS.
heh. i'z be tired.
^^ give it up. that pic is from 1993. i can see Arafat on the bottom right.
Your foolishness is exposed yet again. What ever happened to the Nazis, flavio? what happened to the Jews? lol. Don't answer, we all know.
if those citizens democratically elected said government, yes.
america is punished by obama's policies. gazans are punished by hamas' policies. europe is punished by the policies of its leaders, etc..etc...
Gazans are a lot of things, but starving isn't one of them.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/apr/16/israel
"Israel's policy was summed up by Dov Weisglass, an adviser to Ehud Olmert, the Israeli Prime Minister, earlier this year. 'The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger,' he said. The hunger pangs are supposed to encourage the Palestinians to force Hamas to change its attitude towards Israel or force Hamas out of government."
so collective punishment on an entire population is okay to you? what if they had decided to punish all of Detroit because of Kwame? pffffffft.
they voted hamas into power? they should technically be able to take them out.
They were looking to deliver aid or draw attention to an illegal blockade that is starving the people of Gaza. Very humanitarian.
Anyone could be expected to defend themselves from an armed group attacking their vessel in the middle of the night in international waters.
Anyone could be expected to defend themselves from an armed group attacking their vessel in the middle of the night in international waters.
Ignoring an illegal blockade to deliver aid.
There aren't. They contradict your viewpoint.
I'm not. You are. They were looking to deliver aid or draw attention to an illegal blockade that is starving the people of Gaza. Very humanitarian.
Nope, groups and governments all over have recognized Israel's fuckup.
I'm going to do this once more, then it's done. It's pretty clear you have absolutely no wish to actually address the reality of the situation.
#1. Humanitarians DO NOT SET OUT TO MARTYR THEMSELVES. Period.
#2. Humanitarians DO NOT ATTACK individuals peacefully boarding their ships. This blockade has been in existence for 3 years. They were warned exactly what would happen. So they proceded to try to run the blockade. They knew who these people were. They knew why they were being boarded. They physically attacked them. This was not some 'OMG Somalian Pirate attack!' deal. This was a warned - in advance event they knew was coming. They responded by attacking. Indeed - they didn't even let the military hit the deck before they were attacking them with weapons.
#3. Humanitarians DO NOT RESORT TO WEAPONS FIRE as a response to a peaceful boarding.
Sorry, but your points lack any semblance of rational thought. You're spinning them faster than a politician about to be voted out.
Had these Humanitarians wanted to give aid, there are ways to do it that would have not resulted in bloodshed.
Had these Humanitarians wanted to protest the blockade, there are ways to do it that would not have resulted in bloodshed.
Instead, they chose the most confrontational method they could find, and the end result could be foreseen, and even expected. Just as they expected it when claiming they wanted to Martyr themselves before leaving for the trip.
Same with Israel leaders.
Gaza market photos.
These photos taken within the last 10 months come from a variety of WWW sites that were found in a simple Google search of "Gaza food market photos."
#1. Humanitarians DO NOT SET OUT TO MARTYR THEMSELVES. Period.
#2. Humanitarians DO NOT ATTACK individuals peacefully boarding their ships. This blockade has been in existence for 3 years. They were warned exactly what would happen. So they proceded to try to run the blockade. They knew who these people were. They knew why they were being boarded. They physically attacked them. This was not some 'OMG Somalian Pirate attack!' deal. This was a warned - in advance event they knew was coming. They responded by attacking. Indeed - they didn't even let the military hit the deck before they were attacking them with weapons.
#3. Humanitarians DO NOT RESORT TO WEAPONS FIRE as a response to a peaceful boarding.
Sorry, but your points lack any semblance of rational thought. You're spinning them faster than a politician about to be voted out.
Had these Humanitarians wanted to give aid, there are ways to do it that would have not resulted in bloodshed.
Had these Humanitarians wanted to protest the blockade, there are ways to do it that would not have resulted in bloodshed.
Instead, they chose the most confrontational method they could find, and the end result could be foreseen, and even expected.
except like 90% of the israeli population love the current administration.
Sorry your pictures prove nothing. Their unsourced, undated, we have no idea if their even in Gaza, or if this is typical.
Do you speak or read any languages other than English? Like Arabic, Hebrew or Farsi? I could point you to some sites that give you real insight instead of the crap you keep linking.Aden (a rather fascinating town, just not for history buffs or secularists who search for traces of British colonialism, PDRY heritage or liberated women – all signs of these three have long disappeared)
Amman (relatively dull)
Aqaba’s city centre beaches (wait, have I been magically transported to a slum built on a rubbish dump along Calcutta’s seafront?)
Beirut (the rebuilt, posh city centre only – nauseating density of MREs=morally repugnant elites)
Baghdad (and Kirkuk, Mosul, all of Diyala, much of Anbar & Babil: still too unsafe for the casual visitor)
Baptism Site/Jordanian side (you must be in a religious delirium to find this place interesting, though for cynics the sorry toxic creek previously known as the majestic Jordan is good for a nasty laugh)
Basra (Iraq’s second city, but neglected and dilapidated – a sorry shadow of its former glory, if it ever existed)
Damascus, main bazaar (no match with bazaars in Cairo, Istanbul or Iran)
Dubai (relatively speaking, over-hyped and overrated)
Eilat (tacky and expensive – hard to say if the town or its tourists are more tasteless)
Gaza (an ugly town with pockets of wealth near the beach where the local parasitic elite gives the finger to its own population then whimpers about oppression of the Palestinian people and screams for international solidarity)
Jerusalem (full of religious nutcases, both domestic and foreign, you begin to feel guilty if you don’t spend half of your day in prayer)
Kuwait (the whole damned country – dull & expensive)
Masada (somehow doesn’t quite live up to its romantic fame when you stand on top and wonder under-whelmed “okay, that’s it…?”
Pella (disappointing even when it modestly labels itself as the country’s 5th or 6th-best archaeological site)
Qatar (not been there yet – but I would imagine – over-hyped like Dubai but with none of the objective attractions that Dubai has to offer?)
Salt (three nice buildings, but that’s it)
Sharm el-Sheikh (expensive and overdeveloped)
Taiz (ugly, polluted, not one bit more intellectually enlightened than the rest of the country)
…and thousands of grey, sandy, hot, fly-blown, ugly, no-name towns consisting entirely of cinder-block shacks (did architects become extinct in the Middle East 500 years ago???).
There is a reason why “books are full of the best places to visit”!
Those NOT mentioned are better avoided.
You are lieing. Completely and utterly lieing. Not spinning. Not twisting. Lieing.They didn't intend to martyr themselves. They intended to deliver aid or bring attention to the illegal blockade. But your logic that humanitarians can't be martyrs was flawed anyway.
There is NO proof that the Israeli's began shooting first with live bullets. They have already admitted to shooting rubber bullets and using concussion grenades to try to protect their landing people. If your claim is that they began shooting live/deadly bullets first, I would LOVE to here you explain why they didn't kill the people on the deck who were beating their soldiers heads in with pipes and chains. Go ahead. Convince us.Wrong they started shooting before they boarded and tried to drop a bunch of armed guys on the deck in the middle of the night in international waters. Anyone, humanitarian or otherwise, could be expected to defend their ship from this attack.
An attack. Repeated radio messages for them to stop. Warnings that they would be stopped. Then attempted non-lethal force. 9 dead out of how many?It wasn't a peaceful boarding, it was an attack. Anyone could be expected to defend themselves by whatever means necessary. Especially if you can take a gun from an attacker.
Actually they are dated in the sub-captions which came from the reference websites. I wanted to provide photos from the most recent months.
I am curious as to why you don't actually do a Google search yourself and look at the hundreds and hundreds of photos that are available and then identify the sources for yourself.
Here is a professional photographer's site that I have already set up to screen in photos of Gaza markets. Click on any one of them and it will identify place, photographer and date.
I see you have probably the largest set of blinders on of anyone on this site
even if using your God given thinking powers definitely seems a stretch.
Being a Hamas fan you should have minimal trouble, hehehe.
You are lieing. Completely and utterly lieing. Not spinning. Not twisting. Lieing.
The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, the UK Telegraph, the BBC, the San Franciso Chronicle, and nearly every other respected newspaper in this country has had articles quoting friends and relatives of the members of the crew stating they wanted to be martyrs.
There is NO proof that the Israeli's began shooting first with live bullets. They have already admitted to shooting rubber bullets and using concussion grenades to try to protect their landing people.
An attack. Repeated radio messages for them to stop. Warnings that they would be stopped. Then attempted non-lethal force. 9 dead out of how many?
Sorry, but if this had been a serious attack, those ships would have been at the bottom of the ocean.
The rest of your repetitious "illegal blockade" crap is just that. There are hundreds of legal scholars debating whether it's really illegal or not. The fact that is has gone on for 3 years should suggest just how tenous and unsound your line of reasoning is.
So that's it. As I said, you have no real interest in trying to search out the truth. You've taken a couple reports and pieced together something you wanted to believe, rather than using the preponderance of the evidence to form a rational view based in fact.
Confirmation bias at its worst.
They had no right to commander that ship in international waters. Israel was warned that their blockade was illegal. They attacked anyway and the passengers defended their ship. Then they killed people.
You keep repeating yourself even after being owned in a humiliating fashion.
Israel's blockade of Gaza is perfectly legal. In fact, the UN, Cyprus, Egypt, EU, USA, and even a few quiet Arab states don't challenge its legality.
Assuming so, boarding in international waters is legal as well.
Would you prefer IDF seals board the ship in Gaza's immediate waters, where the ship, its crew, and israeli soldiers are in range of hamas rockets?
It is perfectly lawful to enforce a blockade in international law. If ship Y states its intention to break a blockade in spite of repeated warnings, then blockade should be enforced before the ship crosses into domestic water.
US, British, French, Russian, Chinese, South Korean and hell even Canada have boarded ships in international waters to assure their security.
Being in international waters does not somehow make you immune to the law.
In the world of Flavio and Sandeagle, Muslims aren't really expected to behave like human beings and any attempt to enforce the rule of law is izareli terrrizosm111!!!
No sorry, Israel was warned that the blockade was illegal by the UN.
No illegal blockades give Israel no authority to attack humanitarian ships in the night in international waters.