israeli navy fires on Gaza aid flotilla

[cubby1223]

The "U.N. Human Rights Chief" says the blockade is illegal, therefore it is illegal.

Yep, that's the whole rationale behind Flavio's argument?

The U.N. on the whole is urging Israel to end the blockade, but they are not declaring it illegal. And do you seriously think it is all of the U.N. saying this in unison? Bull!

Besides, the U.N. is fucking weak, they have little to no power. You really think the U.N. can get anything done? The U.S. holds the cards, and Obama has been mum on the subject.


Legal / illegal, that is just an excuse. Who declares something illegal? The question is, what is the world going to do about it? I bet dollars to donuts the answer is "nothing".

 

[Nebor]

The next time a ship tries to run their blockade, they should just light them up with a mark 19. No videos, no survivors, no story.

 

[cubby1223]

Israel should sink the next ship the same way North Korea sank the South Korean vessel. The "international community" for sure will wait and demand 100% proof of what happened before coming to any action!


But you all know what's absolutely fucking hilarious? I'm relatively new here to AT P&N, I was searching around, reading some of the old threads in here - you all have had the same argument on the same topic with the same opponent users for years on end!

Oh, but this time for sure the words will make a difference! Now is surely the time my opponent will see the errors in his ways! This incident has made large strides in bringing the world to resolution!

 

[theflyingpig]

But you all know what's absolutely fucking hilarious? I'm relatively new here to AT P&N, I was searching around, reading some of the old threads in here - you all have had the same argument on the same topic with the same opponent users for years on end!

Oh, but this time for sure the words will make a difference! Now is surely the time my opponent will see the errors in his ways! This incident has made large strides in bringing the world to resolution!

Only a few have realized the truths you have. Congratulations, cubby1223. Congratulations.

 

[flavio]

You keep saying this but it isn't true, and several users here have proven this.

Absolutely true and no users have come even close to disproving it.

This "blockade" has been on-going for 3 years. 3 YEARS.

Yes, and israel has been warned by the UN that it was illegal.

again, repetition is not an argument. You have been caught in a web of lies and exposed without mercy, and yet you do not accept defeat.

Yes, you just repeating things without any valid source is not an argument. You have been defeated and will not bring any facts to stop it.

"Humanitarian ships" do not carry Turkish mercenaries:

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?ID=177445

Nor do humanitarian ships store firearms, munitions, bullet proof vests, and gas masks:

http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=177475

humanitarian ships also do not accept volunteers who are the off-spring of al-qaeda leaders:

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=177457

Today Hamas storm troopers actually attacked NGO "rights" groups in Gaza and stripped them their documents and hardware:

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=177444

Wow, you have complained even about BBC articles in the past, you've complained about the Guardian, you've even said the Times was a crap source, you're fellows have even complained about Amnesty International.

But YOU yes YOU just linked to nothing but jpost propaganda. You just gave up any right to complain about a source.

Are you one of those hasbara megaphone people?

 

[Freshgeardude]

Absolutely true and no users have come even close to disproving it.


actually many have. we arent wasting our time posting the same stuff we did 10 pages ago. under accepted international law, reevaluated in 1998, israel was LEGALLY allowed to board the ship.

Israel is LEGALLY allowed to have a blockade on Hamas



Yes, and israel has been warned by the UN that it was illegal.

you keep saying this without ANY proof. go post something. i'll wait till you find something



Yes, you just repeating things without any valid source is not an argument. You have been defeated and will not bring any facts to stop it.


I see you doing nothing but the samr


Wow, you have complained even about BBC articles in the past, you've complained about the Guardian, you've even said the Times was a crap source, you're fellows have even complained about Amnesty International.

But YOU yes YOU just linked to nothing but jpost propaganda. You just gave up any right to complain about a source.

Jpost can have some biased, sure, but if must be fucked up in the head if they will be making up complete news articles out of thin air. Biased =/= always lies

Are you one of those hasbara megaphone people?

face it, you come here and just deny EVERYTHING without proof. you are weak in argument.

 

[theflyingpig]

face it, you come here and just deny EVERYTHING without proof. you are weak in argument.

He's just a silly liberal humming his mantra. Everyone knows this.

 

[Noobtastic]

Yes, and israel has been warned by the UN that it was illegal.

LOL, no it hasn't. If that were the case it wouldn't be cooperating with Israel to deliver aid to Gaza.

UN member states, namely muslim states, accuse Israel of an illegal blockade, and try to wield their majority share in the UNGA and UNHRC to pass bogus resolutions that are cited by idiot scholars like its gospel.

anyways, the UN is a fucking joke to begin with. Please provide evidence refuting the very meticulous evidence provided by jpost and AP. It hasn't been denied by flotilla. BBC and the guardian have not reported on it. they don't refute it, they simply refuse to cover these revelations.

so willing to accept jihadist POV unchallenged, but anything that offends the muslim viewers is silenced.

oh right, im the propagandist.

 

[Mem]

Fact is the Israeli raid was a disaster for the Israeli image,it'll be interesting to see what they do with the Irish aid ship that's on its way to Gaza.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-sabotaging-Irish-aid-ship-Rachel-Corrie.html


I personally feel America is trying to keep too buddy ,buddy with Israel and giving them a free pass to do anything,UN really needs to get a strong backbone and start throwing real weight around regardless of US or any other individual country.

 

[Doboji]

Interesting article on CNN today here:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/04/gaza.raid.autopsies/index.html?hpt=T2

I always find it interesting which parts of an article ends up being the headline. It starts out explaining that some of the activists were shot in the head... insinuating that it was execution style. Then the article goes on to detail an account from an activists, about how they organized to repel the Israelis, how they captured some of the commandos, and confirming Israels account that they attempted to use non-lethal measures before things got out of hand.

Draw from it what you may... but IMO the bullet wounds tells me nothing... if this was indeed a desperate melee as described by both Israel and now the activists... wouldn't those type of wounds be pretty typical?

 

[grebe925]

Fact is the Israeli raid was a disaster for the Israeli image,it'll be interesting to see what they do with the Irish aid ship that's on its way to Gaza.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-sabotaging-Irish-aid-ship-Rachel-Corrie.html


I personally feel America is trying to keep too buddy ,buddy with Israel and giving them a free pass to do anything,UN really needs to get a strong backbone and start throwing real weight around regardless of US or any other individual country.

I think Israel should commandeer the ship, sail it to to Africa and deliver the aid to the refugees in Sudan, Somalia or Rwanda. It'll prove that all these peacenik emperors have no clothes.

 

[Mem]

I think Israel should commandeer the ship, sail it to to Africa and deliver the aid to the refugees in Sudan, Somalia or Rwanda. It'll prove that all these peacenik emperors have no clothes.

I see your point,however you could argue the money US gives to Israel goes on weapons etc..that money would be better off going to countries that need it or keeping the money at home for US dosmetic needs,you can argue that point all day.

 

[grebe925]

I see your point,however you could argue the money US gives to Israel goes on weapons etc..that money would be better off going to countries that need it or keeping the money at home for US dosmetic needs,you can argue that point all day.

We could also argue that the tin-pot dictators who are remote-controlling this operation would better spend their time and money attending to the needs of their people when they're not oppressing them. Even better, they could use the tons of money being shoveled their way by way of oil revenue to rehabilitate the Palestinians (which would be a drop in their oil money bucket) instead of using them as lightning rods to draw attention away from their misdeeds. So, we're right, we could argue all day.

Here's one such hypocrite (I wonder if our faux-peaceniks will sail a couple of ships in the direction of the oppressed Iranians):

Ahmadinejad warns opposition, blasts Israeli raid
.....
The Iranian president on Friday warned the country's opposition against straying from the path of the founder of the Islamic Revolution and slammed Israel for a deadly raid this week on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad spoke before hundreds of thousands gathered at the shrine of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini and the surrounding grounds in southern Tehran for a ceremony marking his death 21 years ago. The Khomeini-led Islamic revolution toppled the U.S.-backed shah and brought hard-line Islamists to power in 1979.

"Those who deviate from the Imam's path will be banished by the people," Ahmadinejad said.

The stark warning came just days ahead of the opposition's mass rally planned on the anniversary of last June's disputed presidential election. The rally is to be the first opposition gathering in months and authorities have warned they will confront any unauthorized demonstrations.

The Iranian opposition claims Ahmadinejad won the June 12 election through massive vote fraud. It had rallied for months against the election results but was met by a heavy government crackdown, which the opposition says killed 80 people during street protests so far.

More than 100 opposition figures and activists were put on a mass trial, and 80 of them were sentenced to death or given prison terms ranging from six months to 15 years.

 

[QuantumPion]

Fact is the Israeli raid was a disaster for the Israeli image

Israel's mere existance is a disaster for Israeli's image, because the people painting the image are Jew-haters to begin with.

 

[grebe925]

Here's some photos of a fine dining experience in Manhattan. The restaurant blurb says it all:

ROOTS Fine Dining Restaurant

OUR PASSION IS FOOD.

OUR OBSESSION IS SERVICE

Our most credible advertising is a satisfied guest. The guest experience starts with us always saying yes to our guests and then finding a way to make it happen. Our sole purpose in the restaurant is to do whatever it takes to deliver the best possible experience to our guests. We are sensitive to the individual preferences of our guests and enthusiastically make sure that they are taken care of.

Preserving what diners love best and adding what diners always welcome, Roots maintains impeccable five-star service, while offering a liberating renewable menu. Roots Chefs culminate their expertise in a diverse and approachable cuisine of superb meats, pasta and seafood.
----
You can leaf through their menu and order such delectable entrees as Paves De Rumsteak Au Poivre Vert, or Rouelles De Vea Burgeoise or Kung Pao Style Beef if you feel like Chinese tonight.

Did I say the restaurant is in Manhattan? Wait, I misspoke it is actually in (drumroll please):

Cairo Street , Remal ,Gaza, Palestine

I've changed sides. Man, I'm going to get on the flotilla and gonna kick some Israeli a*s if they stop me from dining there.

 

[senseamp]

The next time a ship tries to run their blockade, they should just light them up with a mark 19. No videos, no survivors, no story.

Next ship stopped to get equipped with live streaming satellite video. And Israel already tried this Rambo sh!t, blew up in their face

 

[cwjerome]

Next ship stopped to get equipped with live streaming satellite video. And Israel already tried this Rambo sh!t, blew up in their face

Yeah, they tried to board a ship and were attacked... sounds like a bunch of activists got all Rambo, and things literally blew up in their face.

I certainly wouldn't recommend Israel just lay into a ship with a Mark19 (not that they would anyway) but one (or two) of those going off at night is a helluva sight.

 

[Narmer]

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with the next ship and the one after that. We'll see if their determination is sustainable.

 

[cwjerome]

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with the next ship and the one after that. We'll see if their determination is sustainable.

It is not. The Israelis are now stuck “reacting” as opposed to acting. What are essentially “pacifist” attacks on the Israeli blockade put the Israelis in a no-win situation. If they loosen but maintain the embargo/blockade, it becomes even more porous and ineffective than before, while if they don’t they are stuck with endless “catch and release” of a stream of ships, crews, etc. and the development of a more unified, energized Arab/World opposition.

One of my favorite sayings by Churchill goes, "You must first win the argument in order to win the war." Israel barely tries to argue.

 

[Nebor]

Next ship stopped to get equipped with live streaming satellite video. And Israel already tried this Rambo sh!t, blew up in their face

That'd be a short video.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

**double post**

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Fact is the Israeli raid was a disaster for the Israeli image,it'll be interesting to see what they do with the Irish aid ship that's on its way to Gaza.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-sabotaging-Irish-aid-ship-Rachel-Corrie.html

I personally feel America is trying to keep too buddy ,buddy with Israel and giving them a free pass to do anything,UN really needs to get a strong backbone and start throwing real weight around regardless of US or any other individual country.

Wait how can Israel sabatoge communications on a boat which they control.

Gaza flotilla: Israel accused of ‘sabotaging’ Irish aid ship Rachel Corrie

"Pro-Palestinian campaigners behind the latest seaborne attempt to break the blockade on the Hamas-controlled enclave said that they had lost all contact with the vessel.

The Free Gaza Movement said that it assumed Israel must have sabotaged systems on board the ship, whose passengers include a Nobel Peace Prize winner and a former UN assistant secretary-general."

Wait how can Israel sabotage communication systems on board a ship that has not even arrived in the region yet?

These "Free Gaza Movement" morons are some crazy tinfoil hat wearing loons.

 

[Lemon law]

Wait how can Israel sabatoge communications on a boat which they control.




Wait how can Israel sabotage communication systems on board a ship that has not even arrived in the region yet?

These "Free Gaza Movement" morons are some crazy tinfoil hat wearing loons.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While the credibility of the charge that Israel sabotaged the communication equipment is not in any way established, is the first thing to point out.

But if Israeli agents can assassinate people in other countries, its not hard to imagine Israeli agents sneaking aboard such a merchant vessel in port and committing acts of sabotage. There would be many easy ways to short out a radio with a small time delay device. No noisy explosives needed, just some nice sticky electrically conductive liquid, and as soon as they turn on the radio, it goes snap crackle pop as various electrical components are ruined beyond any repair.

In short Duca, your defense is not as iron clad as you think.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While the credibility of the charge that Israel sabotaged the communication equipment is not in any way established, is the first thing to point out.

But if Israeli agents can assassinate people in other countries, its not hard to imagine Israeli agents sneaking aboard such a merchant vessel in port and committing acts of sabotage. There would be many easy ways to short out a radio with a small time delay device.

In short Duca, your defense is not as iron clad as you think.

and neither is their accusation which is highly suspect considering their agenda.

 

[Atreus21]

This thread can be summed up thusly:

In this corner...facts.

And in this corner...DAMMIT, ISRAEL IS AT FAULT.