israeli navy fires on Gaza aid flotilla

[cubby1223]

The rest of you guys, your commentary against Israel is becoming quite comical to read!

 

[flavio]

The rest of you guys, your commentary against Israel is becoming quite comical to read!

The pro Israel stuff was comical a long time ago.

 

[palehorse]

My take?

Israel did not "attack" the ships, they boarded the ships to enforce the blockade. They were subsequently attacked by the fanatic activists on the ships with knives, sticks, and anything else the fanatics had on hand. The Israelis defended themselves with deadly force to squash the attack quickly and effectively.

I also believe the reports that the activists have direct ties with terrorist groups. Having such ties makes them a threat to Israel and the rest of the free world. It also eliminates any sympathy I might have had for their losses.

Lie down with dogs and you'll get fleas. Anyone who supports fanatical terrorists deserves a 9mm piece of lead in their head, period.

Fuck 'em.

 

[cubby1223]

The pro Israel stuff was comical a long time ago.

Has your wheelchair battery arrived yet? Truly is a crime your chair cannot be sat in without that battery.



As for everyone else, the real question is, how does this Israel / Gaza conflict impact what will happen in the region when Iran builds their first nuclear weapon? Obama seems fully resigned to allowing Iran to do whatever they want. And the resident anti-Israeli crowd here certainly thinks it's only fair if Israel has them then their side of choice should have them too.

 

[kylebisme]

So Israel just declared war on Ireland by intercepting the latest ship trying to run the blockade?

I've yet to see enough information on the Irish ship to be sure on that, but yeah Israels attack on the previous ships was technically an act of war.

You say that as if you think it has any significance. I don't see it as an act of war, but even if you do, what is Ireland going to do? What is NATO going to do? NOTHING!

I doubt much will come of this incident in particular, but in the long run it is yet another of Israel's incessant and egregious violations of international law which is causing Zionism to loose the last shreds of respect it has in this world.

Israel did not "attack" the ships, they boarded the ships to enforce the blockade.

That is the official Israeli government story which even Ethan Brenner, the NY Times Jerusalem Bureau Chief, whose son actively serves in Israeli military contradicts:

The crack of an Israeli sound grenade and a hail of rubber bullets from above were supposed to disperse activists, but instead set them into motion. And when three Israeli commandos slid down ropes out of helicopters to take over the ship, a crowd set upon them.

Also, witnesses report live fire before the commandos roped down onto the ship, and autopsy reports contradict the Israeli narrative too, as reported here.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/01/gaza-flotilla-eyewitness-accounts-gunfire

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0531/ra...laims-israelis-fired-activists-boarding-ship/

Here's a quote from one of Anandtech's Israel supporters...

The point is that they didn't use deadly force. If the Israelis had thrown frag grenades onto the boat, this would be a totally different story. No deadly force was used until the supposed humanitarians started attacking the commandos with knives, batons, and axes.

 

[kylebisme]

The point is that they didn't use deadly force.

Only if you don't count bullets as deadly force, and ignore the fact that Israel's high velocity tear gas canisters do kill people.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Only if you don't count bullets as deadly force, and ignore the fact that Israel's high velocity tear gas canisters do kill people.

Allow me to amend my statement:

Israeli soldiers did not use deadly force until the activists demonstrated the use of deadly force against them. And yes, it sucks that people can get killed by high-velocity gas canisters. But really, if the activists hadn't attacked the soldiers with weapons then the death toll would be much, much lower. It's not as if a bunch of poorly armed people could have kept the Israelis from checking the boat, anyway.

 

[kylebisme]

Israeli soldiers did not use deadly force until the activists demonstrated the use of deadly force against them.

So the Israeli government claims, but all the witness reports I've seen suggest Israel used deadly before even attempting to board this ship.

And yes, it sucks that people can get killed by high-velocity gas canisters.

Israel obviously likes it. If they didn't, they wouldn't keep firing them on people at far closer than the intend range of use.

 

[Lemon law]

As much as we would like to believe the ConstipatedVigilante statement of, "Israeli soldiers did not use deadly force until the activists demonstrated the use of deadly force against them.", that statement is a totally unsupportable myth totally discredited by events of the 62 year mid-east history.

In so saying my opinion, it does make Israel the sole mid-east rascal, it just drives home the new international point that its time to reduce the overall rascal count in the mid-east. And let it fall equally on Israeli terrorists and other terrorists.

But bottom line point, right now Israel has little to point at, Hamas in Gaza and Hezzbollah in Lebanon are doing nothing to Israel, and on the world stage, the only active hyperspastic set of jack booted thugs dominating the news are all 100% Israeli.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

I just want to pose a question:

How do the pro-palestinian people here think Israel should have handled it? If they let the aid ships through, weapons would start flooding into Gaza. Or should they just go back to treating Gaza like a war-zone? That's what will start happening if the blockade is lifted; the only real measure that could be put into place is to be more lenient with regards to the items that can be imported.

 

[kylebisme]

How do the pro-palestinian people here think Israel should have handled it?

As for the specific situation; Israel should've taken the offer to observe the unloading of the aid at Gaza. As for the big picture, Israel should stop violating international law, and comply with the UNGA's long standing proposal of a two-state solution on based on those standards.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Nonsense, which is why you can't quote any post to support that ridiculous claim.

like he said, RTFT. go back to pages 1-3, read the LARGE quotes on international laws on this matter.

 

[kylebisme]

...the LARGE quotes on international laws on this matter.

None of which makes what Israel did any less illegal, which is why you can't quote anything which does when asked for it, but rather just tell people to go digging for it.

 

[Lemon law]

like he said, RTFT. go back to pages 1-3, read the LARGE quotes on international laws on this matter.

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Maybe Fresgreardude has gotten to the root question, international law and who interprets what that international law is!

At the end of the day, its going to be the international community and not Israel who decides.

But But But, I can see it all now, all the Israeli fan clubber will now join together to chant the UN is ineffective.

But in that catch 22 pissing contest, may lie Israel's learning that the UN and the international community can becomes an overwhelming force that cannot be opposed by a single nation like Israel. IMHO, Israel in so laying forth that challenge to the international community and the UN, has just demanded they be doped slapped.

 

[JEDIYoda]

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Maybe Fresgreardude has gotten to the root question, international law and who interprets what that international law is!

At the end of the day, its going to be the international community and not Israel who decides.

But But But, I can see it all now, all the Israeli fan clubber will now join together to chant the UN is ineffective.

But in that catch 22 pissing contest, may lie Israel's learning that the UN and the international community can becomes an overwhelming force that cannot be opposed by a single nation like Israel. IMHO, Israel in so laying forth that challenge to the international community and the UN, has just demanded they be doped slapped.

The Un is ineffective why? Becuase it is NOT a non-partial entity!
Bottom line is there is no fairness when the UN steps into matters such as the Middle East!!

The only reason you keep bringing up the UN is because you know that they side with the palestinians 99% of the time!

Then we will have people like Lemon law say -- oh really -- prove it...rofl..hahaa

 

[kylebisme]

The Un is ineffective why?

Because, for decades now, our government has been vetoing any UNSC resolution designed to affect a peaceful resolution to the conflict, as listed here.

 

[nageov3t]

As for the specific situation; Israel should've taken the offer to observe the unloading of the aid at Gaza. As for the big picture, Israel should stop violating international law, and comply with the UNGA's long standing proposal of a two-state solution on based on those standards.

it seems like there is no Palestinian in a position of enough authority to broker such an arrangement and a not-insignificant *cough*iranian-backed*cough* contingent that won't be satisfied until Israel is wiped off the earth.

 

[Sclamoz]

I guess we'll see what aid gets through this time. Until ALL civilian goods get through, these flotillas should keep coming.

Foreign Affairs Minister Micheál Martin reiterated calls for the cargo ship carrying 15 passengers, including five Irish citizens, to be given safe passage, but he revealed that a last-minute deal with Tel Aviv to bring the essential supplies ashore to Israel and onto Gaza under independent supervision had been declined.

"I sought through various contacts to secure an agreement which would ensure the safety of those on board the Rachel Corrie, allow them to make their protest, and provide for the delivery to Gaza of the Rachel Corrie’s full cargo," said Mr Martin.

The arrangement with Israel, according to the minister, would have seen the 1,200 tonne vessel diverting to the Israeli port of Ashdod before being unloaded and inspected under the supervision of UN and officials from Irish Aid.

The minister said the entire cargo, including an estimated 550 tonnes of cement, would then have been transported to Gaza, with two persons from the Rachel Corrie allowed to accompany the supplies to the Israeli border crossing into Gaza at Erez.

Mr Martin added: "In my view, such an arrangement would have offered a useful precedent for future humanitarian shipments, pending the complete lifting of the blockade.

"This proposal was put to those on board the Rachel Corrie who, on Friday afternoon, after careful consideration and having thanked the Government for its efforts, declined to accept it.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ships-crew-reject-deal-to-land-aid-121707.html

They had the choice of getting all the aid through, they rejected it because its not really important.

 

[flavio]

The point is that they didn't use deadly force. If the Israelis had thrown frag grenades onto the boat, this would be a totally different story. No deadly force was used until the supposed humanitarians started attacking the commandos with knives, batons, and axes.

Are you using a "they could have done worse" argument here?

That's ridiculous. Israelis attacked the ship, the passengers defended themselves.

 

[senseamp]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ships-crew-reject-deal-to-land-aid-121707.html

They had the choice of getting all the aid through, they rejected it because its not really important.

Unless there is a change of policy to allow all civilian goods through, and not just a one time exemption for Israel's PR goals, then yes, it's not really important. Ships should keep sailing to Gaza until Israel alters its policy to only target weapons.

 

[Noobtastic]

It's actually not piracy when a state does it, it is an act of war, on yet another NATO country no less.

no, it's only an act of war when its on the continent of europe/north america.

boarding a ship with NATO citizens is not an "act of war."

retard.

They had the choice of getting all the aid through, they rejected it because its not really important.

they rejected it because the aid on the ship was practically worthless. the goal was to make a scene and earn a propaganda victory for hamas.

between all 7 flotilla ships, the aid was estimated to be less than 25% of what israel delivers per day, and what did that did exist was worthless.

wheel chairs, water tanks...these are things that are not in shortages. the only real thing on the boats were concrete, and that of course cannot be delivered because it will be used to build hamas fortresses.

If these aid ships truly wanted to deliver aid, they could have done it the easy way. the red cross and UN work with the IDF in escorting aid to gaza. they have quietly commended it and praised its leadership, even though half a dozen israeli soldiers have been killed and/or wounded in protecting the border from hamas infiltrators.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Unless there is a change of policy to allow all civilian goods through, and not just a one time exemption for Israel's PR goals, then yes, it's not really important. Ships should keep sailing to Gaza until Israel alters its policy to only target weapons.

Yeah because that flotilla isn't just one big PR goal in and of itself.

 

[flavio]

they rejected it because the aid on the ship was practically worthless. the goal was to make a scene and earn a propaganda victory for hamas.

They rejected it because it wasn't delivered by the proper people and Israel had stolen half of it.

between all 7 flotilla ships, the aid was estimated to be less than 25% of what israel delivers per day, and what did that did exist was worthless.

There was thousands of tons of aid....so source?

wheel chairs, water tanks...these are things that are not in shortages. the only real thing on the boats were concrete, and that of course cannot be delivered because it will be used to build hamas fortresses.

Oh no, it would be used to build and repair houses. Israel doesn't want them gettin in the way of their illegal settlements.

If these aid ships truly wanted to deliver aid, they could have done it the easy way.

By taking it right to Gaza ports. Which they were doing until they were attacked by Israel.

Edit: Oh yeah, are you one of those hasbara/megaphone people?

 

[Lemon law]

Yeah because that flotilla isn't just one big PR goal in and of itself.

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Duca might be slow but he is finally getting it, the flotilla activists have a goal of breaking what they feel is an unjust Israeli blockade, and now Bozo Netanyuhu is showing, for all the world to see, that the flotilla activists are morally correct. And that not is Israeli wrong now, Israel has been on the wrong and unjust course for at least 60 years.