israeli navy fires on Gaza aid flotilla

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Sep 12, 2004
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Not to mention that Judaism has since the exodus considered Israel its only Holy Land and Christianity sprang from Israel, especially Jerusalem. Compare that to Islam, whose prophet never even visited it except for making claim to have flown over it in a dream. The only reason Israel is holy to the Muslims is that all ground ever held or inhabited by Muslims they consider to be rightfully theirs in perpetuity.
It's no surprise. Islam's roots are based on Judaism, though you'll never hear many Muslims admit that.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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Breaking News... Al Arabiya has an exclusive interview with pacifist former U.S. Marine, citizen of Ireland and Palestinian passport holder and single handed hero of the flotilla of terrorists sympathizers, er, Turkish karate team activists, er, Union Local 342 Pipefitters, er, Hamas sycophants, er, peacenicks...

Did I get it right that time? :awe:

Peace activist Kenneth O'keefe sharing the story of his heroic 1-against-27 fight with the evil Israeli Soldiers.

The Peace Activist's Heroic Fight
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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If I came and set up a perimeter around your house to limit your access to food and such, would you contend that you couldn't rightly call my actions illegal until a court ruled as much?
Was I firing rockets at your house before you set up this perimeter and limited my access to soda and potato chips?

Just wondering...
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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Back on a more serious note, one of the three captains of the Mavi Marmara says he did everything he could to dissuade the Islamists from resisting the Israeli boarding. He also says he took loads of iron pipe and other weapons from these so called peaceful people and chucked them overboard.

Interview with Mehmut Tuval, Captain, Mavi Marmara

The following video shows he did not throw nearly enough of the iron pipes overboard as it seems everyone got himself one!

Clearest video of activities on the Mavi Marmara before and during the assault. Though the assault itself is not shown you can skip to around the 30 minute mark to view the "non-violent" peace activists all arming up with iron pipes and some kind of homemade grenades. The video continues to show them throw these homemade grenades against the boarding boats and you can see the Israelis responding with PAINTBALLS.

The shots of the medical area on the boat show that most of the passengers are military age males equipped with gas masks and every one of them other than the photographers are carrying iron pipes with which to attack the Israelis.

This is no peace group. It is a violent and pumped up group intent on attacking Israeli boarders.

Mavi Marmara // Raw Footage
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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Was I firing rockets at your house before you set up this perimeter and limited my access to soda and potato chips?
To make the analogy appropriate; no, but your father was, because I murdered your mother and drove the rest of your family out of your old house at gunpoint to make it my own.

By the way, did you ever figure out how dawn breaking behind the ship proves it was headed away from Gaza?
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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To make the analogy appropriate; no, but your father was, because I murdered your mother and drove the rest of your family out of your old house at gunpoint to make it my own.

By the way, did you ever figure out how dawn breaking behind the ship proves it was headed away from Gaza?

Kyle, why are you ignoring the videos in the above post?

Though the interview with the ship's captain is with Israelis, it confirms that he was extremely worried by the violent intent of his passengers.

The second one is not an Israeli interview, it is footage from the passengers of the Mavi Marmara themselves. You can watch the whole thing or just skip ahead to around the 30 minute point to see everybody arming themselves and preparing to battle the Israelis. Not a peacenick to be seen.

Stop burying your head, son, and start accepting the overwhelming evidence that this ship had no peaceful intent but was oriented to violently oppose the Israelis with lethal force.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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Though the interview with the ship's captain is with Israelis, it confirms that he was extremely worried by the violent intent of his passengers.
Rather the captain was worried about the intent of some passengers to resist Israeli violence by fighting back. I've not been ignoring the videos, and rather have seen them before you posted them. Rather, I just generally ignore your inane mischaracterizations of them.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
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To make the analogy appropriate; no, but your father was, because I murdered your mother and drove the rest of your family out of your old house at gunpoint to make it my own.
So my father was shooting rockets at your innocent neighbors and their children from my house? Well then I guess your newly formed perimeter comes as no surprise at all.

Perhaps I should call my Uncle in Italy and ask him to grab 49 of his knife/pipe wielding mafia friends. I'll tell him that they should come down and try to bust through your perimeter to bring me some Doritos and Pepsi... hmmm... maybe I should tell him to show up in Ice Cream Trucks so that you don't catch on to our master plan...?

I'm really sick of eating all these vegetables and lamb, so I sure do hope he gets here soon...

By the way, did you ever figure out how dawn breaking behind the ship proves it was headed away from Gaza?
Perhaps you're right. However, the breaking dawn occurs near the very end of the 62 minute video. The hour long footage was obviously edited/cut prior to release because several real hours went by during the timespan covered by the edited 62 minute video. So, at the end of the day, I really have no idea when the ship actually turned around.

Do you have an exact time for when they turned around?
 
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palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
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Rather the captain was worried about the intent of some passengers to resist Israeli violence by fighting back. I've not been ignoring the videos, and rather have seen them before you posted them. Rather, I just generally ignore your inane mischaracterizations of them.
Actually, the Captain makes it quite clear that he personally did not want the passengers to intentionally cause a disturbance by violently resisting the boarding party.
 
May 11, 2008
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Rather the captain was worried about the intent of some passengers to resist Israeli violence by fighting back. I've not been ignoring the videos, and rather have seen them before you posted them. Rather, I just generally ignore your inane mischaracterizations of them.

Just a little side topic for you for a few seconds :
A fairy tale :
Those building where never supposed to go down as they did. (construction errors and use of highly ignitable /cheap materials out of greed a long time ago ?) The attacks on the WTC without collapsing and the pentagon would have been enough incentive or motivation to legislate counter measures. Prior knowledge from the former administration together with greed from the past caused the current recent past. This is not only probable but also fitted the behaviour of the former administration together with the always existing chance of the wrong choice out of greed.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
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Rather the captain was worried about the intent of some passengers to resist Israeli violence by fighting back. I've not been ignoring the videos, and rather have seen them before you posted them. Rather, I just generally ignore your inane mischaracterizations of them.

I wonder what it must feel like when you bury your head in the sand like an ostrich. Cool?
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
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So my father was shooting rockets at your innocent neighbors and their children from my house? Well then I guess your newly formed perimeter comes as no surprise at all.

No, your father was shot randomly while he was farming. So was your brother. And your daughter.

You were angered by this. What do you do?
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
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So my father was shooting rockets at your innocent neighbors and their children from my house? Well then I guess your newly formed perimeter comes as no surprise at all.
That doesn't make it any of it any less wrong; not me having robbed you of your previous home, not your father shooting rockets at my neighbors, and not me refusing to make amends for my previous wrongs and rather setting up a perimeter around your new home to inflict suffering on your family instead.

Perhaps I should call my Uncle in Italy and ask him to grab 49 of his knife/pipe wielding mafia friends. I'll tell him that they should come down and try to bust through your perimeter to bring me some Doritos and Pepsi... hmmm... maybe I should tell him to show up in Ice Cream Trucks so that you don't catch on to our master plan...?

I'm really sick of eating all these vegetables and lamb, so I sure do hope he gets here soon...
That's just a flagrant mischaracterization of the situation.

Perhaps you're right. However, the breaking dawn occurs near the very end of the 62 minute video.
There's no "perhaps" about the fact that the ship had turned away from Gaza by the time dawn broke, but you are right to suggest that it doesn't prove the ship turned around prior to Israel attacking it. I'd seen a report that they did, but am unable to locate that now, or any other report of exactly what time the ship changed course.

By the way, your confusion as to how I can tell that the ship had turned away from Gaza by the time dawn broke reminded me of one of my favorite bits of wisdom from Talmud, Sanhedrin 104a-b:

Our Rabbis taught: It once happened that two men [Jews] were taken captive on Mount Carmel, and their captor was walking behind them. One of them said to the other, ‘The camel walking in front of us is blind in one eye, and is laden with two barrels, one of wine, and the other of oil, and of the two men leading it, one is a Jew, and the other a heathen.’ Their captor said to them, ‘Ye stiff-necked people, whence do ye know this?’ They replied, ‘Because the camel is eating of the herbs before it only on the side where it can see, but not on the other, where it cannot see. It is laden with two barrels, one of wine and the other of oil: because wine drips and is absorbed [into the earth], whilst oil drips and rests [on the surface]. And of the two men leading it, one is a Jew, and the other a heathen: because a heathen obeys the call of Nature in the roadway, whilst a Jew turns aside.’ He hastened after them, and found that it was as they had said. So he went and kissed them on the head, brought them into his house, and prepared a great feast for them. He danced [with joy] before them and exclaimed ‘Blessed be He who made choice of Abraham's seed and imparted to them of His wisdom, and wherever they go they become princes to their masters!’ Then he liberated them, and they went home in peace.
Granted, figuring out that the ship was traveling away from Gaza when dawn broke isn't nearly as impressive of a feat, but it's a matter of deductive reasoning much the same.

A fairy tale :
Those building where never supposed to go down as they did. (construction errors and use of highly ignitable /cheap materials out of greed a long time ago ?) The attacks on the WTC without collapsing and the pentagon would have been enough incentive or motivation to legislate counter measures. Prior knowledge from the former administration together with greed from the past caused the current recent past. This is not only probable but also fitted the behaviour of the former administration together with the always existing chance of the wrong choice out of greed.
That's quite a fanciful tale you have there. In reality, one couldn't even hope to build anything like the Twin Towers and have them come down as they did without employing lots of explosives, even if specifically attempting to design and construct such buildings to come down without. WTC 7 couldn't have came down as it did without having been rigged to do so either, though I've not seen enough evidence on that to rule out means other than explosives there. As for the Pentagon, best I can tell the damage to that was solely the result of the jet hitting it. In regard to prior knowledge in the administration, I'm guessing some knew at least a bit of what was planned, but doubt Bush had a clue, and figure others were only let in on the plan as much as was necessary to implicate them in it, so they would have to cover it up to protect themselves.
 
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May 11, 2008
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That's quite a fanciful tale you have there. In reality, one couldn't even hope to build anything like the Twin Towers and have them come down as they did without employing lots of explosives, even if specifically attempting to design and construct such buildings to come down without. WTC 7 couldn't have came down as it did without having been rigged to do so either, though I've not seen enough evidence on that to rule out means other than explosives there. As for the Pentagon, best I can tell the damage to that was solely the result of the jet hitting it. In regard to prior knowledge in the administration, I'm guessing some knew at least a bit of what was planned, but doubt Bush had a clue, and figure others were only let in on the plan as much as was necessary to implicate them in it, so they would have to cover it up to protect themselves.

I find it amusing that you can believe in the notion that a building is rigged with explosives without anybody knowing about it and feeling guilt or remorse and spilling their guts sooner or later while you find it impossible to believe that errors can be made in construction. Indirect errors or not. When an object transfers energy to another object, that energy has to go somewhere. Kinetic energy and potential energy comes to mind. Aging of materials. Use of non proper materials...
G.W. was never the smart one. But he was the right man for the job. Do some research about what privileges former presidents can still have if they wish now and then. It can be very handy for the "local" industry. This has been used numerous times by many men.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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rofl @ the video. You have a bunch of people on this Flotilla who crowd the sides so the Israeli boarders could not get up hence the reason they were lighting up the side with paintballs, hell it looks like they were missing a shitload of them on purpose just trying to shoot the side of the boat to scare them back. You even hear someone yell to everyone else IN ENGLISH to go stay inside and let them do what they need to do, yet people still rush the sides start throwing shit at them instead of letting them do their job. EVERYONE who got on that Flotilla knew they would have to be stopped and inspected. These guys chose to start some shit instead of just letting their "humanitarian aid" get through.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
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Israel disgraced itself. Next vessel to run the blockade should be torpedoed.

Oh, I think they should save their torpedoes for when Iran's pitiful navy tries to make a run at Gaza. Everyone else should be boarded with the application of maximum shock and awe, then shackled and chained, put on a diet of matzoh and water until such time as someone else other than Israeli taxpayers pay to take them back.

Maybe they can feed them only chocolate and coriander? I hear chocolate and coriander are essential foodstuffs for Islamic radicals! :awe:

The time for coddling these Hamas loving provocateurs is over.

I also believe that the Israelis should send relief ships to the Turkish Kurds. And make substantial money donations to all anti-Muslim political groups throughout the Mid-East. And invite all anti-Islamic militant groups to come and train in Israel or send trainers to where they operate. And send massive loads of weapons as gifts and humanitarian supplies from Yahweh. After all, fair is fair.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
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I find it amusing that you can believe in the notion that a building is rigged with explosives without anybody knowing about it and feeling guilt or remorse and spilling their guts sooner or later while you find it impossible to believe that errors can be made in construction. Indirect errors or not.
Of course you do, and that is exactly what the people who rigged the buildings to come down expect you to do.

When an object transfers energy to another object, that energy has to go somewhere. Kinetic energy and potential energy comes to mind. Aging of materials. Use of non proper materials...
That doesn't even come close to explaining what happened, which is why neither the official "investigations" nor anyone has produced any semblance of experimental confirmation to support such notions, nor will anyone ever do so. Seriously, you might as well be defending theories of psychic spoon bending for all the demonstration of reproducibility you ever could have to support your beliefs.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
That doesn't make it any of it any less wrong; not me having robbed you of your previous home, not your father shooting rockets at my neighbors, and not me refusing to make amends for my previous wrongs and rather setting up a perimeter around your new home to inflict suffering on your family instead.
Your sole intent is to stop the rockets and protect your own civilians, right? I can understand that. I do appreciate all the food and tons of aid you are letting through though. Thank you for that -- at least we're not starving! But, like I said, the veggies and lamb are getting old, so some Pepsi and Doritos sound fantastic!

By the way, my father needs some more metal tubing and concrete to "rebuild our garage." Maybe I'll just ask my uncle to bring some of that stuff with him in the ice cream trucks...
That's just a flagrant mischaracterization of the situation.
No, actually it isn't.

There's no "perhaps" about the fact that the ship had turned away from Gaza by the time dawn broke, but you are right to suggest that it doesn't prove the ship turned around prior to Israel attacking it. I'd seen a report that they did, but am unable to locate that now, or any other report of exactly what time the ship changed course.
I'd say that the time they actually turned around is a pretty important factor, wouldn't you?

So, do your homework and get back to me...
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
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Your sole intent is to stop the rockets and protect your own civilians, right?
Not "sole" by any stretch, as I'm not such a selfish fool as to imagine one can bring peace without justice. Perhaps this might help you understand my position better, though I won't hold my breath.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
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It is a catchy tune, but wasn't the music I was referring to. Granted, I was never expecting you to comprehend the message anyway.
 
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