israeli navy fires on Gaza aid flotilla

[SamurAchzar]

We have plenty of facts.
1. Israel told them they could not come months in advance
2. Israel offered to give gaza they aid they wanted to deliver
3. Israel said they would stop the ships
4. Israel came with 3 vessels aimed at stopping the ships from reaching gaza
5. The activists knew their chances and options once they started the confrontation
6. Israel, in the waters warned them.
7. Israel boarded, at this point, with the aim to take the ships to ashdod.
8. activists had knives, clubs, and other such weapons ready to protest against the israelis


I think we both can agree thus far on the above.

Israelis boarded and were met with resistance. deaths ensued until the activists realized they would lose against the israelis. it took 10 idiots.

shoot to kill? try shoot till you've made your point and protect yourself.

Not only that - IDF said the violence only took place on one ship (Turkish). I think the other ships were taken over by prison combat units, but into this one IDF landed commandos. You'd be naive to think IDF didn't have some inside information about what expected on board that ship. Peace protesters my ass.

Next week we have a flotilla with candies heading to the Taliban, who's joining?

 

[Oric]

The ships took sail from European ports and their cargo has been inspected by customs of the respective countries. The ships were not carrying military arsenal. All the apology to defend Israel with gunships and commandoes has been brought down to knives and sticks !!

How appropriate ... Ever heard of assymetrical use of force ?

Second, Israeli intervention took place on international waters, the flotilla could easily be stopped even without taking the ships as hostages, a good aimed salvo on the ships' rudders could have rendered the ships immobile. There are even better alternatives but Israel never choses the humane options

Someone asked me if I am in Istanbul, yes this morning I drew past the Israeli embassy here, there were protests but as of now everyone has gone to a far away protest meeting. It is calm around the area

 

[JEDIYoda]

Perhaps that he, JEDIYoda & one of the mod here are Israeli apologists.

What does what i say have to do with any of the Mods...i speak for myself!!

 

[TheRickRoller]

The funny thing is I have never on these forums ever used those words...that you are so eagar to use--- BAHAHAHAHA U ARE A NAZI!!#@!#@ U EVIL ANTI SEMITE U ARE DUMB AS SHIT!!!!#@ AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Yet you claim to have seem something that did not happen...in actuality you are a tool, trying to incete nwith no proof.....go figure!!

True I was paraphrasing, from lurking in P&N for a long time you tend to just make statements like that, ie refuting any arugments outright and playing the anti-israel card. Witness:

so why don`t you go back to Gaza and crawl back under your rock...

 

[JEDIYoda]

Perhaps that he, JEDIYoda & one of the mod here are Israeli apologists.

Israeli apologist nope--just Israeli.....
My feelings on this particular matter is the activist stated publicly they would not be detered and that they were ready to deal with anything that transpied, including the use of force!

Obvioulsy they were sort of telling the truth.
Sure they sustained casualties...but so did the israeli`s.....
Lets don1t get caughbt up in we they sustained far heavier casualties than the israeli`s.
The fact is they had weapons - which were not guns but still considered weapons , and used them!

 

[Zebo]

Israeli apologist nope--just Israeli.....
My feelings on this particular matter is the activist stated publicly they would not be detered and that they were ready to deal with anything that transpied, including the use of force!

Obvioulsy they were sort of telling the truth.
Sure they sustained casualties...but so did the israeli`s.....
Lets don1t get caughbt up in we they sustained far heavier casualties than the israeli`s.
The fact is they had weapons - which were not guns but still considered weapons , and used them!

Suicide by cop.

 

[SamurAchzar]

The ships took sail from European ports and their cargo has been inspected by customs of the respective countries. The ships were not carrying military arsenal. All the apology to defend Israel with gunships and commandoes has been brought down to knives and sticks !!

How appropriate ... Ever heard of assymetrical use of force ?

If I gave you a bulletproof vest and a gun, would you be happy to rappel onto a mob of 600 men armed with knives, sticks and batons, and according to Israelis two handguns?
So much for asymmetric warfare.

 

[Oric]

A few sticks of tear gas and other riot fighting gear would have been effective. Not to forget it was completely unnecsaary to board the ships on international waters to stop them. Stopping is easy, trying to take the ships as hostages is the hard part, nevertheless Israelis like the hard way and the blood. What can I say ?

 

[SamurAchzar]

nevertheless Israelis like the hard way and the blood. What can I say ?

I guess Israel isn't so frightening if so many people try to pull such stunts with it. Could you imagine what would your authorities do a a flotilla supporting the PKK?

 

[Oric]

I guess Israel isn't so frightening if so many people try to pull such stunts with it. Could you imagine what would your authorities do a a flotilla supporting the PKK?

If such a flotilla ever comes together someday ... Let us not forget that there were 33 different nationals on those ships. This is not a problem between Israel and Turkey but rather the greater part of the World vs Israel

 

[SamurAchzar]

If such a flotilla ever comes together someday ... Let us not forget that there were 33 different nationals on those ships. This is not a problem between Israel and Turkey but rather the greater part of the World vs Israel

I didn't say it was sponsored by Turkey (although it certainly cheered it on), I said the Israeli reaction was measured enough, and certainly in line with any other country who has its sovereignty undermined by supporters of an internationally recognized terror group.

 

[Oric]

Israel reaction is far from being measured. Israel is creating her own rules and applying them at her own will. Out of 233 UN recognized countries, even one of them attacking a civilian ship in international waters, whatever the reason is, should be condemned. But, no these rules do not apply to Israel, it is so special and self righteous bla bla bla ...

 

[poohbear]

i dont get it, when Palestinian militants, that have had their families killed by "collateral damage" by the IDF, kill innocents they are rightly called terrorists, but when IDF soldiers kill innocents its in self-defense.

Fair is fair, let the blame fall on Israel and u reap what u sow.

 

[Nebor]

The boat had to be checked for weapons\contraband. The people on the boat resisted. The people on the boat were killed.

The turks aren't going to do anything. Their military is lazy and unprofessional.

 

[Lemon law]

Now the question is, what will the international community do about it?

But almost one thing for sure, this will do no good for Israeli PR as more attention focuses on the plight of the Palestinians.

But the growing sentiment may become, time to muzzle the Israeli pit bull.

 

[Red Dawn]

I didn't see in any of those reports that those activist were suppose to be peaceful protesters. With regards to the Turkish ship I'm sure it was manned by anti Israeli Muslim activists. Common sense would tell one that Israel boarding that ship would result in this kind of incident. Now if this had happened in Israels waters and not International waters Israels actions could be justifiably explained but not in International waters where Israel has no jurisdiction and no right to board any of the ships. Therefor the crewman and passengers on those ships had a right to try and expel those Israeli forces and the Israeli forces had no right to even be on them.

 

[NFS4]

I'm confused... what right did Israel have to fire on and board a ship in international waters?

If it was in Israeli waters, then by all means blow them the fuck up. But in international waters, I don't understand what jurisdiction they have...

 

[SamurAchzar]

According to an Israeli reporter that accompanied the raid, this is what happened:

1. 5 of the 6 vessels were boarded with little resistance from the passengers, no injuries on both sides.

2. Israeli commandos descended from helicopters into the 6th vessel, Turkish ship Ankara, with about 600 passengers onboard. They were given explicit orders NOT to use live fire at any stage.

3. The commandos, at this stage, were only armed with paintball rifles (non-lethal crowd control equipment), and their personal pistols. Israeli expected relatively little resistance from the activists, who were believed to be mostly peaceful.

4. About 30 men gathered on the top of the Ankara, awaiting the commandos to descend. At one point, they tied the rappel cable to one of the ship antennas, attempting to down the Israeli helicopter.

5. The commandos began grappling down. The people on the top of the ship began hitting the soldiers with batons and sticks. The grabbed the soldiers that descended and lynched them. The paintball guns were not effective. After the mob threw one of the soldiers 10 meters to the lower deck, with the rest in immediate danger, the commander ordered more forces to land.

6. The mob attacked one of the soldiers and captured his pistol, then someone started shooting with the stolen pistol into the other commandos. They asked for a permission to open live fire.

7. The inevitable part: When you go violent on Shayetet 13 (the Israeli naval commandos), things go downhill very very quickly. It is obvious the people onboard the Ankara had nothing to do with nonviolent protest, they were an armed and violent mob, the the commandos handled them accordingly. I wonder how no one got scratched on any of the other vessels.

 

[Lemon law]

I didn't see in any of those reports that those activist were suppose to be peaceful protesters. With regards to the Turkish ship I'm sure it was manned by anti Israeli Muslim activists. Common sense would tell one that Israel boarding that ship would result in this kind of incident. Now if this had happened in Israels waters and not International waters Israels actions could be justifiably explained but not in International waters where Israel has no jurisdiction and no right to board any of the ships. Therefor the crewman and passengers on those ships had a right to try and expel those Israeli forces and the Israeli forces had no right to even be on them.

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I totally agree with the Red Dawn Point.

 

[Oric]

The report from the reporter is inaccurate starting from the ship's name "Ankara" .. It was "Mavi Marmara" and the rest is undocumented and we are expected to believe the paintball guns and stuff ...

 

[alphatarget1]

Greek foreign ministry has called the Israeli Ambassador for intervention of 2 Greek vessels on international waters

Those deadbeats (Greeks) need to pay off their debts before telling anyone else what to do.

 

[SamurAchzar]

The report from the reporter is inaccurate starting from the ship's name "Ankara" .. It was "Mavi Marmara" and the rest is undocumented and we are expected to believe the paintball guns and stuff ...

Sorry, it was my mistranslation. He said Marmara. As opposed to you, I have no reason to believe IDF didn't want to end this peacefully.

Edit: This is the original article

 

[alphatarget1]

Good stuff. Every liberal piece of trash should not only be skinned alive with a boars tooth with salt and lemon, I'd trade off wearing his hide on weekends. They have no clue what they do. Yes lets welcome in fundamentalist Islam where your ass , your belief system, is first on the chopping block. Sickening.

Aside from "skinned alive a boars tooth with salt and lemon" part, QFT. Why the fuck do liberals support Islamic causes when Islam is against EVERYTHING they believe in? Women's rights, gay rights, abortion rights, you name it, Islam is against it.

 

[Lemon law]

In terms of just a early sampling of international reactions, try this link from yahoo news.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100531...5bl9oZWFkbGluZV9saXN0BHNsawNpc3JhZWxib2F0cmE-

If nothing else, this incident may end the three year illegal Israeli blockade of Gaza, and if not, the next and ninth Gaza relief flotilla is likely to be escorted to Gaza beaches with armed war ships from a variety of nations.

While the USA has issued a non committed deeply troubled response, other nations are deeply angry and are taking action, but what is really telling is that not one nation on the planet has sided with Israel. NOT ONE.

 

[SamurAchzar]

If nothing else, this incident may end the three year illegal Israeli blockade of Gaza, and if not, the next and ninth Gaza relief flotilla is likely to be escorted to Gaza beaches with armed war ships from a variety of nations.

So, you're betting that nations around the world will try to militarily invade Israeli territory?