Israelis shot an Armenian Monk, attack Christians in Bethlehem

[pallander]

>
So Palestinian gunmen are shooting from the church. If anything that would make it EASIER for a sniper to differentiate combatant from civilian. And certainly the sniper SHOULD be firing from a protected position. Maybe this account is inaccurate and the IDF sniper acted appropriately. I don't know. But from the first read his act seems reckless. And reckless acts are not endorsed by any code of conduct worthy of respect>>

True indeed.They could have smoked them out instead,but that was i reckon to hard to figure out for them?

 

[Hammer]

Non-combatants should leave the area when the shooting starts. If they stay, they accept the risks.

 

[Lucky]

<< Non-combatants should leave the area when the shooting starts. If they stay, they accept the risks. >>




I see. So the 450 jews killed in the past 20 months are all at fault as well because they were too stupid to move. I mean, they knew they were living in danger right? Its their fault, they knew the risks.

 

[Jejunum]

<< I love how everytime israel does something like this, its always justified because "its war" and "it wouldnt have happened if the palestinians didnt do xxxxx >>

 

[Amused]

<<

<< Non-combatants should leave the area when the shooting starts. If they stay, they accept the risks. >>




I see. So the 450 jews killed in the past 20 months are all at fault as well because they were too stupid to move. I mean, they knew they were living in danger right? Its their fault, they knew the risks.

>>



There is a difference between an unannounced terrorist attack, and a very well known battle zone. Of course, you knew this, didn't you?

 

[Amused]

<<

<< I love how everytime israel does something like this, its always justified because "its war" and "it wouldnt have happened if the palestinians didnt do xxxxx >>

>>



Of course, 50+ years of Arab aggression means nothing, right?

People ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.

Had the Arabs not attacked Israel THREE times by 1967, the so called "Palestinian" Arabs would HAVE their own country. By allowing their land to be used as a launching pad not once, not twice, but THREE times for all out wars of Arab aggression, they lost their right to have it.

There is a fundamental difference here:

Israel's sole objective is to be left the f'ck alone.

The Palestinan's (and all surrounding Arab nations for that matter) sole objetive is, and always has been the complete destruction of Israel.

 

[Lucky]

Well if you want to blame innocent civilians for being killed, then it goes both ways. There are numerous gated, locked, and controlled communities in israel because they know if they live otherwise they are in danger of suicide attacks. So the jews that didnt move to those neighborhoods, I guess it must be their fault if they are killed.

<----glad we have this

 

[ThePresence]

<< >
So Palestinian gunmen are shooting from the church. If anything that would make it EASIER for a sniper to differentiate combatant from civilian. And certainly the sniper SHOULD be firing from a protected position. Maybe this account is inaccurate and the IDF sniper acted appropriately. I don't know. But from the first read his act seems reckless. And reckless acts are not endorsed by any code of conduct worthy of respect>>

True indeed.They could have smoked them out instead,but that was i reckon to hard to figure out for them? >>



I'm sure the IDF would appreciate your miltary advice, since you obviously know better than them how to do this. Im sure your military expertise is based on years of experience....

 

[Czar]

<< You know, it's shocking, but sometimes soldiers have even been known to accidentally kill their own.

Mistakes DO happen. This was caused by the Palestinians. To blame the Israelis is just plain old bias, nothing more. >>


wtf?!? what bases do you have for saying that this was caused by the palestinians?

 

[Amused]

<< Well if you want to blame innocent civilians for being killed, then it goes both ways. There are numerous gated, locked, and controlled communities in israel because they know if they live otherwise they are in danger of suicide attacks. So the jews that didnt move to those neighborhoods, I guess it must be their fault if they are killed.

<----glad we have this >>



Sorry, but it doesn't make sense. One IS a known and declared battle zone, the other is not. You can try to twist it all you want, but it wont fly.

 

[Lucky]

<<

<< Well if you want to blame innocent civilians for being killed, then it goes both ways. There are numerous gated, locked, and controlled communities in israel because they know if they live otherwise they are in danger of suicide attacks. So the jews that didnt move to those neighborhoods, I guess it must be their fault if they are killed.

<----glad we have this >>



Sorry, but it doesn't make sense. One IS a known and declared battle zone, the other is not. You can try to twist it all you want, but it wont fly. >>




Im not trying to "twist" anything, Im trying to show that using the logic of, "well, they knew the danger, they should have left" when there is a MILITARY CURFEW is ridiculous.

 

[Amused]

<<

<< You know, it's shocking, but sometimes soldiers have even been known to accidentally kill their own.

Mistakes DO happen. This was caused by the Palestinians. To blame the Israelis is just plain old bias, nothing more. >>


wtf?!? what bases do you have for saying that this was caused by the palestinians? >>



If you illegally occupy a civilian dwelling in war and do not evacuate the civilains... and they are harmed for ANY reason, it's your fault. In law, if you commit a crime and anyone dies for any reason related to the crime, you are at fault. Yes, even if a police snipper accidentally kills an innocent. Why? Because it would NOT have happened had you not put those civilians in danger in the first place.

 

[ThePresence]

<< Well if you want to blame innocent civilians for being killed, then it goes both ways. There are numerous gated, locked, and controlled communities in israel because they know if they live otherwise they are in danger of suicide attacks. So the jews that didnt move to those neighborhoods, I guess it must be their fault if they are killed.

<----glad we have this >>



Ummmm...all the numerous gated, locked and controlled communites are settlemets. I'm sure you'd have no problem if they moved there?

 

[Amused]

<<

<<

<< Well if you want to blame innocent civilians for being killed, then it goes both ways. There are numerous gated, locked, and controlled communities in israel because they know if they live otherwise they are in danger of suicide attacks. So the jews that didnt move to those neighborhoods, I guess it must be their fault if they are killed.

<----glad we have this >>



Sorry, but it doesn't make sense. One IS a known and declared battle zone, the other is not. You can try to twist it all you want, but it wont fly. >>




Im not trying to "twist" anything, Im trying to show that using the logic of, "well, they knew the danger, they should have left" when there is a MILITARY CURFEW is ridiculous. >>



It's been three days now, hasn't it? How freakin' long did you want them to wait?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

You know, it's shocking, but sometimes soldiers have even been known to accidentally kill their own.

One of the risks that accompanies being a vehicle of warfare. "Live by the sword, die by the sword." Many wonderful people have taken up arms for very good reason and performed honorably. But from the limited accounts available it seems odd to defend the sniper's DELIBERATE action against a SINGLE target . . . potential options:

1) miss identified due to difficulty
2) not identified due to negligence
3) unidentified due to malfeasance

1) justifiable if difficulty not a direct result of negligence
2) not justifiable, not an unknown occurence during conflict, and noncombatants or allies often pay the price for one person's avoidable error
3) a crime . . .

True indeed.They could have smoked them out instead,but that was i reckon to hard to figure out for them?

Uhh, OK. Damn dude, don't cut and paste ANYTHING I ever say . . .

Is this anything new? The world usually takes sides against the Jews. Nothing new here....

How do you figure? The Jews have a place to live BECAUSE the world (via the UK and UN) carved out a country for Jews. Granted, they didn't exactly pick prime real estate and . . . well, now that I think about it you are right. The world (UK and UN) really just wanted Jews in one place b/c no particular country wanted any significant number of them; including the US before, during, and after the war.

I love my Jewish brothers and sisters . . . the sisters a little moreso.

 

[Lucky]

<<

<<

<< You know, it's shocking, but sometimes soldiers have even been known to accidentally kill their own.

Mistakes DO happen. This was caused by the Palestinians. To blame the Israelis is just plain old bias, nothing more. >>


wtf?!? what bases do you have for saying that this was caused by the palestinians? >>



If you illegally occupy a civilian dwelling in war and do not evacuate the civilains... and they are harmed for ANY reason, it's your fault. In law, if you commit a crime and anyone dies for any reason related to the crime, you are at fault. Yes, even if a police snipper accidentally kills an innocent. Why? Because it would NOT have happened had you not put those civilians in danger in the first place. >>




I see. So if Israel and the IDF is illegally occupying territories, refused to let civilians leave a (by your own words, "known battle zone"), and then those civilians were killed, is it then israels fault?

It's been three days now, hasn't it? How freakin' long did you want them to wait?


Last I heard there was ONE lifiting of the curfew, for four hours a couple days ago. Previous to that, please tell me how they were supposed to leave.

 

[BoltCase]

<< So Palestinian gunmen are shooting from the church. >>



LOL, The Preists, Cleric, Monks INSDIE the Church (who are mostly Palestinain Christians) have repeatedly said that NO Palestinain had ever fired from the Church. Stop BS for a second please.



<<
If we're doing something the UN AND EU don't like, we MUST be doing something right. I'd be very worried if our stand resembled theirs. >>



By the way, UN + EU = World

This summerizes our problem

 

[Red Dawn]

<< I'm sure the IDF would appreciate your miltary advice, since you obviously know better than them how to do this. Im sure your military expertise is based on years of experience.... >>

Yeah right, no one knows better about fighting and killing rock throwing civilians more than the Israeli Army... especially when using weapons paid by US taxpayers tp slaughter them with. To bad we can't just pull a lever and flush both sides down the lorrie, the world would be better off.

 

[Czar]

<< If you illegally occupy a civilian dwelling in war and do not evacuate the civilains... and they are harmed for ANY reason, it's your fault. In law, if you commit a crime and anyone dies for any reason related to the crime, you are at fault. Yes, even if a police snipper accidentally kills an innocent. Why? Because it would NOT have happened had you not put those civilians in danger in the first place. >>


so the Israelis are illegaly occupying Palestine and the Israelis are not evacuating civilians and they are harmed .. so its the Israelis fault isnt it?

 

[Amused]

<<

<<

<<

<< You know, it's shocking, but sometimes soldiers have even been known to accidentally kill their own.

Mistakes DO happen. This was caused by the Palestinians. To blame the Israelis is just plain old bias, nothing more. >>


wtf?!? what bases do you have for saying that this was caused by the palestinians? >>



If you illegally occupy a civilian dwelling in war and do not evacuate the civilains... and they are harmed for ANY reason, it's your fault. In law, if you commit a crime and anyone dies for any reason related to the crime, you are at fault. Yes, even if a police snipper accidentally kills an innocent. Why? Because it would NOT have happened had you not put those civilians in danger in the first place. >>




I see. So if Israel and the IDF is illegally occupying territories, refused to let civilians leave a (by your own words, "known battle zone"), and then those civilians were killed, is it then israels fault?

>>



Israel's occupation is NOT illegal. It comes after THREE full scale wars of aggression by these Arabs and 50+ years of terrorism. Is our military action in afghanistan illegal? Was our occupation of Japan and Germany illegal?

Give me a break, Lucky. Please tell me you're playing Devil's advocate and you're really not this dense.




<< It's been three days now, hasn't it? How freakin' long did you want them to wait?


Last I heard there was ONE lifiting of the curfew, for four hours a couple days ago. Previous to that, please tell me how they were supposed to leave. >>



It's called a white flag and negotiation. Don't tell me you've never heard of it.

 

[Lucky]

<<

<< If you illegally occupy a civilian dwelling in war and do not evacuate the civilains... and they are harmed for ANY reason, it's your fault. In law, if you commit a crime and anyone dies for any reason related to the crime, you are at fault. Yes, even if a police snipper accidentally kills an innocent. Why? Because it would NOT have happened had you not put those civilians in danger in the first place. >>


so the Israelis are illegaly occupying Palestine and the Israelis are not evacuating civilians and they are harmed .. so its the Israelis fault isnt it?

>>




Hey now, I already used that argument! Try again!

 

[Amused]

<<

<< If you illegally occupy a civilian dwelling in war and do not evacuate the civilains... and they are harmed for ANY reason, it's your fault. In law, if you commit a crime and anyone dies for any reason related to the crime, you are at fault. Yes, even if a police snipper accidentally kills an innocent. Why? Because it would NOT have happened had you not put those civilians in danger in the first place. >>


so the Israelis are illegaly occupying Palestine and the Israelis are not evacuating civilians and they are harmed .. so its the Israelis fault isnt it?

>>



See my previous post to Lucky to answer this pathetic attempt at a question, Czar. And I ask you the same thing I asked him.

 

[Lucky]

It's called a white flag and negotiation. Don't tell me you've never heard of it.

Somehow I really doubt that would work. If I were a civilian during a military curfew in the area, I sure as hell wouldnt trust the IDF to respect a white flag.

I really cant believe you said that.

 

[BoltCase]

<<
How do you figure? The Jews have a place to live BECAUSE the world (via the UK and UN) carved out a country for Jews. Granted, they didn't exactly pick prime real estate and . . . well, now that I think about it you are right. The world (UK and UN) really just wanted Jews in one place b/c no particular country wanted any significant number of them; including the US before, during, and after the war. >>



I wonder Why.

 

[Amused]

<< It's called a white flag and negotiation. Don't tell me you've never heard of it.

Somehow I really doubt that would work. If I were a civilian during a military curfew in the area, I sure as hell wouldnt trust the IDF to respect a white flag.

I really cant believe you said that. >>



I can. The Israelis have been doing everything they can to respect holy places and people. Had they not they would have flatened that church long ago.

The monks could have left long ago. They either chose to stay or were forced to by the Palestinians. Given what I know about how freakin' stupid religious people can be, I'll bet they chose to stay, in which case the Palestinians should have forced them to leave.