Israelis shot an Armenian Monk, attack Christians in Bethlehem

[Amused]

<<

<<
How do you figure? The Jews have a place to live BECAUSE the world (via the UK and UN) carved out a country for Jews. Granted, they didn't exactly pick prime real estate and . . . well, now that I think about it you are right. The world (UK and UN) really just wanted Jews in one place b/c no particular country wanted any significant number of them; including the US before, during, and after the war. >>



I wonder Why. >>



And we begin to see why you are anti-Israel. :disgust:

 

[mrCide]

<< You know, it's shocking, but sometimes soldiers have even been known to accidentally kill their own.

Mistakes DO happen. This was caused by the Palestinians. To blame the Israelis is just plain old bias, nothing more. >>



to blame the israelis is bias? not only are you an ignorant fool, you're a hypocrite.

:disgust:

 

[Czar]

AmusedOne,
Are you realy saying that the Israeli occupation on Palestine is not illegal by international treaties?

 

[Lucky]

<<

<< You know, it's shocking, but sometimes soldiers have even been known to accidentally kill their own.

Mistakes DO happen. This was caused by the Palestinians. To blame the Israelis is just plain old bias, nothing more. >>



to blame the israelis is bias? not only are you an ignorant fool, you're a hypocrite.

:disgust: >>





Wheee! Where's my popcorn?

 

[Amused]

<< AmusedOne,
Are you realy saying that the Israeli occupation on Palestine is not illegal by international treaties? >>



No more than our occupation of Germany and Japan was.

The double standard here is AMAZING. You folks want to remove all of Israel's right to defend itself effectively. It's not Israel's fault that the Arabs are gluttons for punishment and continue their aggression LONG after they've been beaten.

 

[Amused]

<<

<< You know, it's shocking, but sometimes soldiers have even been known to accidentally kill their own.

Mistakes DO happen. This was caused by the Palestinians. To blame the Israelis is just plain old bias, nothing more. >>



to blame the israelis is bias? not only are you an ignorant fool, you're a hypocrite.

:disgust: >>



How am I a hypocrite?

If a criminal runs into a house with innocent civilians, and police action to take out the criminals accidentally kills civilians, who is responsible for that?

The criminal. The deaths would not have happened had the criminal not created the situation in the first place.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Non-combatants should leave the area when the shooting starts. If they stay, they accept the risks.

What authority grants anyone such rights to determine when and where a battle will be waged? The despicable nature of the suicide bombers is that they attack without warning against people unprepared if not unwilling to fight. The IDF, as Sharon and many of the frequent posters like to point out . . . is taking the war TO the Palestinians. So do Armenian Christians who fled THEIR native land due to persecution by intent now move at the whim of the IDF and it's acts of indifference? You blame the Palestinians and Arafat . . . well that's kind of like some Arabs and Muslims that blame the US. We supply billions in aid. Much of it military. Israel feeds right of the left breast while defecating on any notion of actually returning the occupied territories to Palestinian control by continuously settling the West Bank and Gaza for essentially all of the last two decades. Other than the ocassional Christian and justifiable attacks on militants who do you think resides in the area code where Apache helicopters operate and US munitions fall?

Your perspective has been shared for eons with many despots. It exacerbates if not directly results in mass displacements of people. Such hardships bring pestilence and death to millions. It is ignorant and immoral to believe that the only way a particular dispute can be settled is by fighting it out within a civilian population. And unlike the US occupying Japan, Israel does not intend to REBUILD a sovereign state in the West Bank. But they definitely are taking a page out of the urban warfare handbook . . . I never thought I would say it . . . oh nevermind.

 

[Czar]

<<

<< AmusedOne,
Are you realy saying that the Israeli occupation on Palestine is not illegal by international treaties? >>



No more than our occupation of Germany and Japan was.

The double standard here is AMAZING. You folks want to remove all of Israel's right to defend itself effectively. It's not Israel's fault that the Arabs are gluttons for punishment and continue their aggression LONG after they've been beaten. >>


so because the US occupied Germany and Japan 50 years ago makes it "ok" for israel to brake international treaties?

 

[Amused]

<< Non-combatants should leave the area when the shooting starts. If they stay, they accept the risks.

What authority grants anyone such rights to determine when and where a battle will be waged? The despicable nature of the suicide bombers is that they attack without warning against people unprepared if not unwilling to fight. The IDF, as Sharon and many of the frequent posters like to point out . . . is taking the war TO the Palestinians. So do Armenian Christians who fled THEIR native land due to persecution by intent now move at the whim of the IDF and it's acts of indifference? You blame the Palestinians and Arafat . . . well that's kind of like some Arabs and Muslims that blame the US. We supply billions in aid. Much of it military. Israel feeds right of the left breast while defecating on any notion of actually returning the occupied territories to Palestinian control by continuously settling the West Bank and Gaza for essentially all of the last two decades. Other than the ocassional Christian and justifiable attacks on militants who do you think resides in the area code where Apache helicopters operate and US munitions fall?

Your perspective has been shared for eons with many despots. It exacerbates if not directly results in mass displacements of people. Such hardships bring pestilence and death to millions. It is ignorant and immoral to believe that the only way a particular dispute can be settled is by fighting it out within a civilian population. And unlike the US occupying Japan, Israel does not intend to REBUILD a sovereign state in the West Bank. But they definitely are taking a page out of the urban warfare handbook . . . I never thought I would say it . . . oh nevermind. >>



So many words, so little said. The battle zone is determined by where the enemy runs and hides. The church has been under seige for days. The non combatants could have left long ago.

Not to mention the cowardly Palestinians hiding behind a religious building and people is just pathetic. It's no different than Sadam's human shield crap.

 

[Amused]

<<

<<

<< AmusedOne,
Are you realy saying that the Israeli occupation on Palestine is not illegal by international treaties? >>



No more than our occupation of Germany and Japan was.

The double standard here is AMAZING. You folks want to remove all of Israel's right to defend itself effectively. It's not Israel's fault that the Arabs are gluttons for punishment and continue their aggression LONG after they've been beaten. >>


so because the US occupied Germany and Japan 50 years ago makes it "ok" for israel to brake international treaties? >>



I believe 50+ years of Arab aggression broke any and all treaties long ago, not to mention the continued terrorist attacks.

Isreal has a right to do what it needs to do to protect itself, no matter what you folks think.

 

[Czar]

<< I believe 50+ years of Arab aggression broke any and all treaties long ago, not to mention the continued terrorist attacks.

Isreal has a right to do what it needs to do to protect itself, no matter what you folks think. >>


hey cool, so if someone comes and hits me I can just go and live in his house and take his food and break his furniture and say that the law doesnt apply anymore because he attacked me

 

[BoltCase]

<< Israel's occupation is NOT illegal. It comes after THREE full scale wars of aggression by these Arabs and 50+ years of terrorism. Is our military action in afghanistan illegal? Was our occupation of Japan and Germany illegal? >>



This is so retarded, this mentality only comes from right wing extermists who are destroying the US and the World with them with their sick mentality of war.

The US did not move Texans to throw Germans out of Frankfrut to build a new home for them there. If it had done that, it would be illegal occupation. A military action is not an occupation Mr. Military Guy.

Plus, on what cases you call the wars between the Arabs and Israelis "Terrorism", or you like to stick terrorism where ever you find fit?



<< The Israelis have been doing everything they can to respect holy places and people >>



Loool, you haven't watched the video I posted in the first post did you? That little video that showed how the Israelis stormed a church and destroyed the city of bethlehem ?

Netto.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< Isreal has a right to do what it needs to do to protect itself, no matter what you folks think. >>



And we have the moral obligation to withdraw all aid used to kill Palestineans by the Israeli's and all iaid used by the Arab nation used to kill Israeli's. Let them kill each other on their dime, not ours.

 

[mrCide]

<<

<<

<< You know, it's shocking, but sometimes soldiers have even been known to accidentally kill their own.

Mistakes DO happen. This was caused by the Palestinians. To blame the Israelis is just plain old bias, nothing more. >>



to blame the israelis is bias? not only are you an ignorant fool, you're a hypocrite.

:disgust: >>



How am I a hypocrite?

If a criminal runs into a house with innocent civilians, and police action to take out the criminals accidentally kills civilians, who is responsible for that?

The criminal. The deaths would not have happened had the criminal not created the situation in the first place. >>



Firstly, as much as you want to ignore it, both the criminal and the police are at fault. Do you honestly think a police officer could walk away from a scene after shooting an innocent?

Anyway, you're a hypocrite because you sit here and stand up for Israeli's no matter what they do, and blame the arabs no matter what they do. YOU are the bias one my friend. You put all blame on the palestinians. It's fairly obvious that you have something against all arabs, the way you, and others here have spoken their mouths off. Why try to hide it? Just admit you don't care if any innocent arabs die. BAH!

Like I said before, there's innocents dying on both sides, and there's guilty parties on both sides. No one is better than the other.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

The monks could have left long ago. They either chose to stay or were forced to by the Palestinians. Given what I know about how freakin' stupid religious people can be, I'll bet they chose to stay, in which case the Palestinians should have forced them to leave.

The monks and their house of worship is beholden only to their God. People drone about "Palestine isn't a country" ad nauseum. Well if it isn't a nation it damn certainly is not Israel. Israel DOES NOT have the moral right to force people to leave an area. And yes I believe that to be true of some of our military actions in Afghanistan . . . anybody remember Afghanistan . . . We liberted a nation from an oppressive regime and mangled an international terrorist campaign. And we helped rally the world around supporting the establishment of a legitimate state, with tacit support from those to be governed. Why did many welcome us and cooperate? We forewarned with concrete AND readily attainable short-term requests. The action that followed was somewhat measured and emphasized action away from civilian populations. We provided resources (albeit belatedly) to civilians facing hardship independent of US action and resulting from US action. And we made it clear that we did not want Afghanistan.

Do you think an ISRAELI would believe Sharon if he said the above?

So many words, so little said. The battle zone is determined by where the enemy runs and hides.

Sure, but the battle should be appropriate for the theater. I defend absolutely no tactic that results in an increased risk of civilian causalties. To avoid such an outcome you PLAN . . . you ever play chess? You plan out the whole game and then you execute. Sometimes you have to improvise but you keep it to a minimum b/c poor planning increases your mistakes . . . decisions you regret. Decisions you would NOT have made if you had taken the time to consider several consequences of your actions; not just the one you desire.

So what about the infrastructure that supports the enemy? Is that a legitimate target? What about psychological warfare and trying to damage your adversary's moral or popular support for an offensive? What about making a civilian population feel vulnerable?

Suicide bombing of civilians is never justified. But the above is part of their stated goals. Sharon explicitly endorses some of these goals and practically endorses the others. Reports I hear from contacts in the region and the decent press is that much of the IDF activity is having said effects regardless if it is by intent or "collateral damage". Some might even call it a fringe benefit.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

<<
How do you figure? The Jews have a place to live BECAUSE the world (via the UK and UN) carved out a country for Jews. Granted, they didn't exactly pick prime real estate and . . . well, now that I think about it you are right. The world (UK and UN) really just wanted Jews in one place b/c no particular country wanted any significant number of them; including the US before, during, and after the war. >>



I wonder Why. >>

My guess would be part prejudice against Jews. Admittedly, I really don't understand why you would dislike someone JUST b/c they were Jewish. And partly b/c all of these displaced persons were without financial resources. Rich and poor alike had their possessions stolen by Nazis, German companies, civilians, and various other governments. Even the educated would need time to acclimate and become productive members of society. So as much as some of you bitch about Arab countries not doing their part to support Palestinian refugees . . . much of the world (including the US) was dismissive if not openly disdainful of people whose only offenses were membership in the Tribe and where they chose to peacefully live.

 

[Valinos]

oops, double post

 

[Valinos]

<< If a criminal runs into a house with innocent civilians, and police action to take out the criminals accidentally kills civilians, who is responsible for that?

The criminal. The deaths would not have happened had the criminal not created the situation in the first place. >>



Then watch as the families successfully sue, and possibly even file criminal charges against the police officers. The police department and the city would probably also get hit by civil suits.

If a criminal broke into my family's house and held them hostage, then the police negligently fired into the house trying to kill the first thing they saw moving...and killed my family instead...I'd sue and I'd also file charges against the police for manslaughter. And I'd probably win. Can you say Waco?

Your example is crap.

If you put the hostages into more danger than the criminals do, then you will be held accountable. The relatives of the family will not just shrug it off as an accident.

 

[Tripleshot]

>>>....this mentality only comes from right wing extermists .......<<<

I can Guarentee you,I am no right wing anything,and I fully understand Israels right,and duty to its citizens, to defend thier land and people from insane asshole crybaby sucide bombers wh oattack innnocent people in innocent places. Israel has said enough is enough. Yasser Arrafat is a gawdamn terrorist wh ohas spurned his people intothis violence and has vowed to destroy Israel. The world gave that land to Israel in 1947 and that's the law. Its their land. it was thier land long before Muslums ever came on the scene. Check your history. The holly Land is theirs. Muslums have descrated this holy land for eons. I'm sick and tired of you whimpy terrorist lovers blaiming Irael for all the whoes in the middle east. Arabs need to get over the fact Israel is there forever.

If not, the middle east should check the skies for B-52's. Taking out Israel is not a good idea.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< If not, the middle east should check the skies for B-52's >>

Sorry TS, that will never happen, the American perople wouldn't stand for it.

 

[Amused]

<<

<<

<<

<< You know, it's shocking, but sometimes soldiers have even been known to accidentally kill their own.

Mistakes DO happen. This was caused by the Palestinians. To blame the Israelis is just plain old bias, nothing more. >>



to blame the israelis is bias? not only are you an ignorant fool, you're a hypocrite.

:disgust: >>



How am I a hypocrite?

If a criminal runs into a house with innocent civilians, and police action to take out the criminals accidentally kills civilians, who is responsible for that?

The criminal. The deaths would not have happened had the criminal not created the situation in the first place. >>



Firstly, as much as you want to ignore it, both the criminal and the police are at fault. Do you honestly think a police officer could walk away from a scene after shooting an innocent?

Anyway, you're a hypocrite because you sit here and stand up for Israeli's no matter what they do, and blame the arabs no matter what they do. YOU are the bias one my friend. You put all blame on the palestinians. It's fairly obvious that you have something against all arabs, the way you, and others here have spoken their mouths off. Why try to hide it? Just admit you don't care if any innocent arabs die. BAH!

Like I said before, there's innocents dying on both sides, and there's guilty parties on both sides. No one is better than the other. >>



NONE of this would be happening if not for Arab aggression. The Israelis, from day one, have only wanted to be left alone. But would the Arabs leave them be? NO. They combined forces and attacked on the very day Israel was declared a country, and have not stopped since.

THAT is all I have against the Arabs. Nothing more, nothing less. I do not like aggressors who refuse peace no matter how many chances they are given. I'd feel the same way if they were German, Japanese, Chinese, Russian or English (I was going to say French, but who'd believe that?).

There IS a side who is morally above the other here, and it's clearly the Israelis. The only people I ever see denying this are either biased, or have little to no understanding of the history of the situation. Which one are you?

 

[Amused]

<<

<< I believe 50+ years of Arab aggression broke any and all treaties long ago, not to mention the continued terrorist attacks.

Isreal has a right to do what it needs to do to protect itself, no matter what you folks think. >>


hey cool, so if someone comes and hits me I can just go and live in his house and take his food and break his furniture and say that the law doesnt apply anymore because he attacked me

>>



No, but as an individual you can sue him and take his house, his food money and do what you want with his furniture.

The problem here is there IS no court for the Israelis to sue the Arabs. And even if they did, there is no authority that could make the Arabs pay.

 

[Zebo]

You know, world opinion is against the Jews because they have a very vocal Arab minority in those countries. For example, Frankfurt has a Turkish mayor and is over 50% Arab and since these same countries killed/kicked out the jews thoughout history there is no jewish voice. So don't tell me about EU and UN they are anti-semites and anti-american.

You guys need to out yourself in Israels shoes for once. If the US was attacked by suicide bombers from Canada for 50 years and they let Russia use thier county as a launch pad for attacks agiast us.. what do you think our responce would be? Well first off it never would have lasted 50 years after we invaded them and basically took thier country over. I think Israel is being EXTREMLY gentle.

 

[Amused]

<<

<< Israel's occupation is NOT illegal. It comes after THREE full scale wars of aggression by these Arabs and 50+ years of terrorism. Is our military action in afghanistan illegal? Was our occupation of Japan and Germany illegal? >>



This is so retarded, this mentality only comes from right wing extermists who are destroying the US and the World with them with their sick mentality of war.

The US did not move Texans to throw Germans out of Frankfrut to build a new home for them there. If it had done that, it would be illegal occupation. A military action is not an occupation Mr. Military Guy.

Plus, on what cases you call the wars between the Arabs and Israelis "Terrorism", or you like to stick terrorism where ever you find fit? >>



Are you so dense you can't tell the difference between conventional war and terrorism? If so, I see no further need to discuss anything with you. It's futile.

As for our occupation of Japan and Germany, plenty of Americans set up homes there after the war to start business and help their economies.

What you fail to understand is the settlements pissed off the Arabs because they're bigots and cannot stand outsiders in their "holy lands." THAT has been the entire bases for this conflict from day one and is the ONLY reason Arafat turned down the last peace agreement which offered the Palestinians basically EVERYTHING they claimed they were asking for. They turned it down because anything less than the complete destruction of Isreal is unacceptable to them.

Yet you blindly buy their "we're a victim" BS and argue something you have no knowledge of.

 

[Amused]

<< You know, world opinion is against the Jews because they have a very vocal Arab minority in those countries. For example, Frankfurt has a Turkish mayor and is over 50% Arab and since these same countries killed/kicked out the jews thoughout history there is no jewish voice. So don't tell me about EU and UN they are anti-semites and anti-american.

You guys need to out yourself in Israels shoes for once. If the US was attacked by suicide bombers from Canada for 50 years and they let Russia use thier county as a launch pad for attacks agiast us.. what do you think our responce would be? Well first off it never would have lasted 50 years after we invaded them and basically took thier country over. I think Israel is being EXTREMLY gentle. >>



I agree, Carbony. That's a damn fine anology.