Israelis shot an Armenian Monk, attack Christians in Bethlehem

[Amused]

<< <No, not as dumb. As savage.

Can you look at the bloody history of mankind and tell me we are any less savage than apes? >

that is just a bad excuse,I think we humans are intelligent enough to talk instead of kill....some arent though and that is the problem.
this is moment 22,and will never end until either side is wiped away I am afraid.. >>



It's not an excuse, it's a reason. We aren't going to suddenly be able to discard millions of years of evolution to suit a pacifist ideology.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

I firmly believe that what we see in the middle east is much like what we saw in Europe during the middle ages.

Well I agree. It seems to me that we should be trying to empower the people to take action, Israels reckless disregard for civilian lives seriously pushes things in the wrong direction.

 

[Amused]

<< I firmly believe that what we see in the middle east is much like what we saw in Europe during the middle ages.

Well I agree. It seems to me that we should be trying to empower the people to take action, Israels reckless disregard for civilian lives seriously pushes things in the wrong direction. >>



You mean Israel's valiant effort to save itself from a fanatical people? I hardly see how that would make things any worse. It's Arab/Muslim fanaticism that created this conflict in the first place, and continues it after they've clearly lost.

At any other time, and with most other peoples, the Arabs would have been in MUCH worse shape after attacking and being beaten repeatedly like they were with Israel. The fact that the Arab nations still exist and are autonomous speaks volumes about Israel's humanity.

Trust me, Israel would NOT be so lucky had they lost.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

I've never really regarded shooting peace activists and civilians with live rounds as valiant and humane.

What has kept Israel back is it's reliance on the US, and the US trying to maintain it's relationship with middle eastern states because of oil dependency.

 

[Riprorin]

When the Arabs captured East Jerusalem they expelled all Jews and destroyed or desecrated all Jewish holy sites. Conversely, in 1967 when Israel liberated the occupied territory of Jerusalem they granted free access to Christians and Muslims to worship at their respective holy sites. I think this speaks volumes about the difference between the Arabs and the Jews.

I'm pro-Israel and proud of it.

 

[Amused]

<< I've never really regarded shooting peace activists and civilians with live rounds as valiant and humane.

What has kept Israel back is it's reliance on the US, and the US trying to maintain it's relationship with middle eastern states because of oil dependency. >>



Really? Then explain what held them back between the time they were formed, and the 70s when we started giving them signifigant support?

Israel got along for 20 odd years without US support and whipped the Arab countries in no less than three full scale wars. I doubt they rely on it as much as one may think.

 

[freegeeks]

You know, world opinion is against the Jews because they have a very vocal Arab minority in those countries. For example, Frankfurt has a Turkish mayor and is over 50% Arab and since these same countries killed/kicked out the jews thoughout history there is no jewish voice. So don't tell me about EU and UN they are anti-semites and anti-american.


you sir are a redneck punk moron -- get an education --
I hope you are just a 13 year old kid talking out of his a$$

just my 2 eurocent

 

[Riprorin]

I'm not familiar with the rest of Europe but I do know that France has a very large Arab Muslim population.

You don't think they influence government policy?

You are either in denial or incredibly naive.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< Israel got along for 20 odd years without US support and whipped the Arab countries in no less than three full scale wars. >>

Well that's good to hear. How ab9out they get along the next 20 years without our financial support. Same thing for their Arabic Nieghbors.

 

[Amused]

<<

<< Israel got along for 20 odd years without US support and whipped the Arab countries in no less than three full scale wars. >>

Well that's good to hear. How ab9out they get along the next 20 years without our financial support. Same thing for their Arabic Nieghbors. >>



I have no problem with that. Most of our 'support" has been selling them arms, not giving them away... and we only started doing this because the USSR was giving arms to the Arab nations. Now that that's gone, I see no reason to continue.

 

[Zebo]

<< You know, world opinion is against the Jews because they have a very vocal Arab minority in those countries. For example, Frankfurt has a Turkish mayor and is over 50% Arab and since these same countries killed/kicked out the jews thoughout history there is no jewish voice. So don't tell me about EU and UN they are anti-semites and anti-american.


you sir are a redneck punk moron -- get an education --
I hope you are just a 13 year old kid talking out of his a$$

just my 2 eurocent >>



Care to explain? What don't you agree with and why? That Europe, for centuries, slaughtered Jews. Or that european countries don't have a pro-arab policy? Or they don't like America , Israel and GB?

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Given 1967 I don't really think they did hold back. Now that we've been supporting them so, and now that their military has grown stronger, the situation has changed.

It seems like Israel now could be pushing for an all out war to force the US and the UN to actively take their side and fight all the Arab countries who would assuredly jump into the fray. That also plays into the rumor that the Mossad had information pointing to the Sept. 11th attack but withheld it. I think self-defense has mutated into extreme zionism that parallels the fundamentalism of the other side.

 

[ThePresence]

<< It seems like Israel now could be pushing for an all out war to force the US and the UN to actively take their side and fight all the Arab countries who would assuredly jump into the fray. That also plays into the rumor that the Mossad had information pointing to the Sept. 11th attack but withheld it. I think self-defense has mutated into extreme zionism that parallels the fundamentalism of the other side. >>



Dude, listen to yourself. This really sounds like the ramblings of a paranoid, anti-Israel madman.

 

[HappyPuppy]

It's war. Get over it.

 

[b0mbrman]

Is this a joke?


<< since you insist.
Why don't you explain what happened?
Here's what I know. There's a country named Palestine. All of a sudden it disappears and becomes Israel. The Palestinian people end up in camps throughout the arab countries. >>


There has never been a country called Palestine since old testament times


<< What they're doing is a REACTION to the Israeli's actions. >>


So if the IDF pulled out, the suicide bombings would stop? I think you've already been proven wrong...


<< The media for years have been showing how bad the Palestinians and the arabs are and how barbaric their actions are when infact the destruction and weapons and killings that the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians/arabs are way beyond imagination. >>


Don't know which news you're watching...Most American, British, Arab media are decidedly pro-Palestinian.


<< One stone from a Palestinian equals destruction of a Palestinan town from the Israelis. Is that acceptable in your opinion? >>


No. Which Palestinian town has been destroyed as a reaction to the throwing of one stone?


<< There are facts and then theres what the media says, which is always biased. It's up to you what you want to believe. >>


But I'm guessing that the media source you listen to is *totally* unbiased, right?

 

[ThePresence]

<< It's war. Get over it. >>



[sarcasm] There are some rediculous, insane people who dont like war. [/sarcasm]

 

[PistachioByAzul]

The notion of self-defense usually ends up having an endless limit for the liberties that it allows oneself to take. I think the Zionists martyr themselves just as much as the Islamic fundamentalists, maybe as a rebound from all the centuries of persecution. I don't know why I'd have anything against Israel, that's kind of pointless.

 

[ThePresence]

<< The notion of self-defense usually ends up having an endless limit for the liberties that it allows oneself to take. I think the Zionists martyr themselves just as much as the Islamic fundamentalists, maybe as a rebound from all the centuries of persecution. I don't know why I'd have anything against Israel, that's kind of pointless. >>



Please explain how the "Zionists" martyr themselves just like the Islamic fundamentalists. I cant wait to hear this....

 

[Amused]

<< Given 1967 I don't really think they did hold back. Now that we've been supporting them so, and now that their military has grown stronger, the situation has changed. >>



Um, you are aware they took the whole Sinai peninsula from Egypt, aren't you?

Didn't hold back? They could have owned Jordan, Syria and Egypt as they had completely obliterated all their air forces and ran through their armies like a hot knife through butter... even though the numbers were 4-1.

ALL they took from Egypt was the Gaza strip, giving Egypt back the entire Sinai.

And all this in just 6 days. I'd say they held back.

 

[Amused]

<< Bottom line is, two wrongs dont make a right. Suicide bombs are wrong, but so are the Israeli incursions.

Sharon is a b*stard.....and so is Arafat. >>



Another who doesn't know what came first, and what will happen in the absence of the other.

Arab aggresson came first, and has continued for 50+ years.

If the Israeli's stopped the "incursions" the Arabs would still be attacking them, just as they had before the 1967 war, and from then until now. In fact, nothing the Israelis do or don't do, has stopped these terrorist attacks.

I repeat for the umpteenth time, there are NOT two wrongs here. Sure, Israel has made mistakes, but no more mistakes than you can expect from a people and an army under siege for over 50 years by enemies on every side of their little strip of land they call a country. However, the mistakes do not affect the larger picture, i.e., who is the aggressor?

 

[Amused]

<<

<< The notion of self-defense usually ends up having an endless limit for the liberties that it allows oneself to take. I think the Zionists martyr themselves just as much as the Islamic fundamentalists, maybe as a rebound from all the centuries of persecution. I don't know why I'd have anything against Israel, that's kind of pointless. >>



Please explain how the "Zionists" martyr themselves just like the Islamic fundamentalists. I cant wait to hear this.... >>



Me neither

 

[PistachioByAzul]

ThePresence, sorry for keeping you waiting so long.

It's there in the psyche, the way we victimize ourselves and fill up with righteousness. The way we respond to attacks, absorbing the negative energy and spitting it out again. "But....but....he hit me first!".

'Martyr' I guess isn't the best word, I'm using the thought processes behind it, so I shouldn't expect it to make sense taken literally.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

What came before Arab agression? European colonization? The Ottoman empire being dividided up? I think they're still rebounding from that. Two peoples who've been experienced the worst at the hands of Europeans. Who's mess is this really?

 

[Amused]

<< What came before Arab agression? European colonization? The Ottoman empire being dividided up? I think they're still rebounding from that. Two peoples who've been experienced the worst at the hands of Europeans. Who's mess is this really? >>



Everyone's.

 

[Amused]

<< ThePresence, sorry for keeping you waiting so long.

It's there in the psyche, the way we victimize ourselves and fill up with righteousness. The way we respond to attacks, absorbing the negative energy and spitting it out again. "But....but....he hit me first!".

'Martyr' I guess isn't the best word, I'm using the thought processes behind it, so I shouldn't expect it to make sense taken literally. >>



When you must attack back or be annihilated, well, "he hit me first" takes on a whole new meaning. And the Arab nations have made it very clear from the beginning that their sole intent is the complete annihilation of the state of Israel.