Israel's Anniversay - Same Date as Palestinian Holocaust. How'd that Happen ?

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Macamus Prime

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2011
3,108
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I get it now,... the Palestinians are 'browner' than the Israelis! NOW I understand it's OK to kill them off; it all makes sense.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
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But what was not acceptable after the Arabs attacked, was the Israeli stealing the land of those Palestinians who fled or were pushed out of Israel at the point of a gun.

Why not? The only reason you think this is unacceptable is because it is your side that lost. I'm all for "stealing" the land of countries that declare war on me.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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Why not? The only reason you think this is unacceptable is because it is your side that lost. I'm all for "stealing" the land of countries that declare war on me.
That should be the first immutable rule of international law. If you attack your neighbor and your neighbor kicks your ass and takes some of your land, you should NEVER get back that land. That should be the penalty for launching an attack.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,172
3,872
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Israel was acceptable of the boundaries of the UN.

UN had no right to give someone s land without his consent.

Of course that the zionists were happy, since they detained
at the time less than 10ù% of the palestine..

Of course, you are gullible enough to think that the 1948
partition plan was enough for them..

As anowledged by historical facts, they viewed it from
the start as a first step before grabbing the remaining
lands, by force of course...

All zio medics addicts by there live in the fantasy that
israel was a state that wanted peace in 1948..

Do you know it better than the zionists leaders ??

The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan: one does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today, but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concern of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion
 
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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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The founding doctrine of the UN was that land gained by conquest is forever going forward illegitimate.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
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Yet this case, Israelis had been stealing land from hundreds of thousands of Palestinians for months prior to the Arab states declaring war on Israel, as this entry at Wikipedia recounts.
oh cry me a river...boo hoo....
also make note the wikipedia disclaimer --
Wikipedia is an online open-content collaborative encyclopedia, that is, a voluntary association of individuals and groups working to develop a common resource of human knowledge. The structure of the project allows anyone with an Internet connection to alter its content. Please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by people with the expertise required to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information.

That is not to say that you will not find valuable and accurate information in Wikipedia; much of the time you will. However, Wikipedia cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here. The content of any given article may recently have been changed, vandalized or altered by someone whose opinion does not correspond with the state of knowledge in the relevant fields. Note that most other encyclopedias and reference works also have similar disclaimers.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
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The founding doctrine of the UN was that land gained by conquest is forever going forward illegitimate.
again....cry me a river....land gained my defending your own land is well just that land gained!! As if the Un has the power or the reslove or the support of its member nations to militarily back up that statement.....
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
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oh cry me a river...boo hoo....
also make note the wikipedia disclaimer --
I'm familiar with how Wikipedia works, which is why I'm careful to only site in it regard to well document facts, such as the fact that Israelis have been ethnically clenching the region of Palestinians since November 29 of 1947, nearly half a year before the May 15th declaration of war by Arab states on Israel.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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"Originally Posted by JEDIYoda View Post
oh cry me a river...boo hoo....
also make note the wikipedia disclaimer --"

Well, all it proves is that Wiki is not universally accepted, but the real question is and remains, will the international community rule there will be a Palestinian State around 9/2011.

If there ends up being a Palestinian State, don't expect me to join JediY, as JediY cries his own boo hoo river.

And even if there is not a Palestinian state by the end of 2011, the pressure will still keep building for one in the future.
 
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the DRIZZLE

Platinum Member
Sep 6, 2007
2,956
1
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I'm familiar with how Wikipedia works, which is why I'm careful to only site in it regard to well document facts, such as the fact that Israelis have been ethnically clenching the region of Palestinians since November 29 of 1947, nearly half a year before the May 15th declaration of war by Arab states on Israel.

Lol. Look at the wikipedia footnote for your table.

"The table data was taken from Ruling Palestine, A History of the Legally Sanctioned Jewish-Israeli Seizure of Land and Housing in Palestine"

That certainly sounds like the title of a legitimate scholarly article to me.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
UN had no right to give someone s land without his consent.

Of course that the zionists were happy, since they detained
at the time less than 10ù% of the palestine..

Of course, you are gullible enough to think that the 1948
partition plan was enough for them..

As anowledged by historical facts, they viewed it from
the start as a first step before grabbing the remaining
lands, by force of course...

All zio medics addicts by there live in the fantasy that
israel was a state that wanted peace in 1948..

Do you know it better than the zionists leaders ??

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion

Well, you can keep posting non-sensical rants on internet forums, but I'd say that the Israeli military's unchallenged ability to dominate all other middle eastern powers (combined) puts them in the winner's corner. Maybe you wouldn't be in the spot you're in if you were even close to as bad ass as they are.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
UN had no right to give someone s land without his consent.

Of course that the zionists were happy, since they detained
at the time less than 10&#249;&#37; of the palestine..

Of course, you are gullible enough to think that the 1948
partition plan was enough for them..

As anowledged by historical facts, they viewed it from
the start as a first step before grabbing the remaining
lands, by force of course...

All zio medics addicts by there live in the fantasy that
israel was a state that wanted peace in 1948..

Do you know it better than the zionists leaders ??

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion

A country was created. The UN never stated that those within the country's borders had to give up their land.

When the Palestinians that bailed at the recommendation of the Arab countries; that was an indication that they did not want to live in a Jewish orientated state.
Other Palestinians were willing to live in a Jewish oriented state.

Those that bailed anticipated that they would get it all. And they did - everything that the Arabs were able to conquer.

And the "remaining lands" were left alone until again attacked by the Arabs that controlled that land.

Please try again.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
The founding doctrine of the UN was that land gained by conquest is forever going forward illegitimate.

Yes - tell that to China.

Apparently those that have the power are ignored; while the little guy fighting for their survival is punished.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What a piece of crud reasoning, the Arabs did indeed attack, but what you are saying is someone gets mugged and robbed they are justified in mugging and robbing an innocent by stander.

then why aren't you starting a daily thread about the crimes being committed against libya since as I recall what's going on there was started by the same mandate.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
The founding doctrine of the UN was that land gained by conquest is forever going forward illegitimate.

lolololololololol

just a few (dozen or so) countries that this golden rule of yours doesn't seem to apply to.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Nebor may be in love with military power, but if you look at world history, military hegemony is not all its cracked up to be.

The USA may have been the number uno military power, but we still lost in Vietnam. I could cite many more examples to you Nebor but why waste my breath, when a word to the wise is sufficent.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Nebor may be in love with military power, but if you look at world history, military hegemony is not all its cracked up to be.

The USA may have been the number uno military power, but we still lost in Vietnam. I could cite many more examples to you Nebor but why waste my breath, when a word to the wise is sufficent.

and go figure, the military was told it would not be allowed to conduct the campaign to the best of it's abilities.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Lol. Look at the wikipedia footnote for your table.

"The table data was taken from Ruling Palestine, A History of the Legally Sanctioned Jewish-Israeli Seizure of Land and Housing in Palestine"

That certainly sounds like the title of a legitimate scholarly article to me.
I suspect an unfamiliarity with history is what prompts you to take issue with the title, and hence recommend you look at the source itself rather than judging a book by its cover. That said, if you've seen anything you believe to be a legitimate scholarly work refuting the information presented in Ruling Palestine and the many sources compiled in its bibliography, please share.

When the Palestinians that bailed at the recommendation of the Arab countries
The myth that Palestinians left at the urging of Arab leaders been debunked for decades, Christopher Hitchens's "Broadcasts" being one notable refutation of the claim.

As for the actual reasons Palestinians "bailed", the Wiki article on the subject sums it up well with:
In the 1980s Israel and United-Kingdom opened up part of their archives for investigation by historians. This favored a more critical and factual analysis of the 1948 events. As a result more detailed and comprehensive description of the Palestinian exodus was published, notably Morris&#8217; The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem.

Morris distinguishes four waves of refugees, the second, third and fourth of them coinciding with Israeli military offensives, when Arab Palestinians fled the fights or were expelled. The initial Israeli position has been replaced by a new version : the exodus was caused by neither Israeli nor Arab policies, but rather was a by-product of the 1948 Palestine War.

A document produced by the Israeli Defence Forces Intelligence Service entitled "The Emigration of the Arabs of Palestine in the Period 1/12/1947/- 1/6/1948" was dated June 30, 1948 and became widely known around 1985.

The document details 11 factors which caused the exodus, and lists them "in order of importance":

  1. Direct, hostile Jewish [ Haganah/IDF ] operations against Arab settlements.
  2. The effect of our [Haganah/IDF] hostile operations against nearby [Arab] settlements...... (... especially -the fall of large neighbouring centers).
  3. Operation of [Jewish] dissidents [ Irgun Zwa&#237; Leumi and Lohamei Herut Yisrael]
  4. Orders and decrees by Arab institutions and gangs [irregulars].
  5. Jewish whispering operations [psychological warfare], aimed at frightening away Arab inhabitants.
  6. Ultimate expulsion orders [by Jewish forces]
  7. Fear of Jewish [retaliatory] response [following] major Arab attack on Jews.
  8. The appearance of gangs [irregular Arab forces] and non-local fighters in the vicinity of a village.
  9. Fear of Arab invasion and its consequences [mainly near the borders].
  10. Isolated Arab villages in purely [predominantly] Jewish areas.
  11. Various local factors and general fear of the future.
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
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Hitchens has said of himself

&#8220; I am an Anti-Zionist. I'm one of those people of Jewish descent who believes that Zionism would be a mistake even if there were no Palestinians." [87] &#8221;

A review of his autobiography, Hitch-22, in the Jewish Daily Forward, refers to Hitchens as "a prominent anti-Zionist..... Zionism, which he regards as an injustice against the Palestinians." [88] Others have commented on his anti-Zionism as well [89] suggesting that his memoir was "marred by the occasional eruption of [his] anti-Zionism (reflecting his longstanding Palestinian blind spot)" [90] The Jewish Daily Forward quotes him saying of Israel's prospects for the future, &#8220;I have never been able to banish the queasy inner suspicion that Israel just did not look, or feel, either permanent or sustainable.&#8221; [88]

Hitchens has described Zionism as being based on "the initial demagogic lie (actually two lies) that a land without a people needs a people without a land", and he went even further saying "Zionism is a form of Bourgeoisie Nationalism" when debating the Jewish Tradition with Martin Amis at a Town hall function in Pennsylvania.[91] Hitchens isn't necessarily against Israel's right to exist as many states have been founded in such a manner, but has argued against what he calls Israel's "expansionism" in the West Bank and Gaza and "internal clerical and chauvinist forces which want to instate a theocracy for Jews".[92] Hitchens would collaborate on this issue with prominent Palestinian advocate Edward Said, in 1988 publishing Blaming the Victims: Spurious Scholarship and the Palestinian Question.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
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Yeah, Hitchens is no fan of Zionism, while the other person's research I cited, Benny Morris is an ardent Zionist who regularly says things along the lines of:

But my feeling is that this place would be quieter and know less suffering if the matter had been resolved once and for all. If Ben-Gurion had carried out a large expulsion and cleaned the whole country - the whole land of Israel, as far as the Jordan valley. It may yet turn out this was his fatal mistake. If he had carried out a full expulsion - rather than a partial expulsion - he would have stabilized the state of Israel for generations.

However, who is or isn't a Zionist makes no difference. The history remains the same regardless, which is why you can't refute Hitchens's account of the history and you're left to try to discredit him based on his political opinions instead.
 
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Broheim

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2011
4,592
2
81
Nebor may be in love with military power, but if you look at world history, military hegemony is not all its cracked up to be.

The USA may have been the number uno military power, but we still lost in Vietnam. I could cite many more examples to you Nebor but why waste my breath, when a word to the wise is sufficent.

the US didn't lose (militarily) in Vietnam, you pussied out, there's a huge difference.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
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Simple question:

Which side suicide bombs civilians deliberately?

I'll do a count of how many diversions occur before I get a one-word response (Either Israel or Palestine) to this question.
 
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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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Palestinian militants do not considered anyone in Israel, or Jew outside of Israel to be a civilian. All are viable military targets.
 
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