Issue with repair shop...

[Kantastic]

This is quite a long read, so brace yourselves!

My dad's car, a Honda Odyssey 2009, was taken in for body work a little over a month ago after sustaining damages from an accident. We thought it would be best to take it back to the dealership where the car was originally purchased brand new. We dropped the car off and they took a little over 3 weeks to replace 2 doors that were crushed inwards. They milked my father's insurance (Allstate) for everything (they asked for like 2 supplemental inspections for things I still don't know about), but when we received the car, it the doors didn't look new. The edges were rough, the crimping was misaligned, everything about it didn't look right. They kept telling us the doors were new, and with my father not knowing English and myself not knowing anything about cars, we just drove it home. There was an issue with a loose handle, but they "fixed" most of that. An uncle of mine that does body work for Toyota inspected the door at a family gathering last week and he said the doors seemed old, and that the dealer probably just repaired the old doors and pocketed the difference.

A month later today, we're driving along a sunny freeway, and I decided to pull up the shade screen on the middle door. I realized that 1 of the hooks at the top were missing. I checked the other side, and lo and behold, another hook was missing. After further inspection, I realized that the hook on the door that was "replaced" was slanted and looked like it was hot-glued on there. My theory is that those bastards gave us some random/old door and realized it didn't have hooks, so yanked one from the side that had them and just left 1 on both sides. I don't know why it took us over a month to realize it, probably because we never use the screen and it's such a small thing that we overlooked it.

So now, over a month after signing off for the repair and handing over a personal check for almost 5 thousand dollars, do I have any ground demanding them to fix the damn hooks?

I'm really bad at car lingo, so here's a picture of what I'm talking about:

One is missing on both sides.

 

[pcgeek11]

Quite often if the door sheet metal was just crushed they will "skin" the door and not replace it. They will also use used parts. Look at the itemized bill and see what it says.

Why would you have to write a check for 5K dollars if they milked the insurance Co? If you think you were ripped off report it to the insurance co and let them handle it.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

As pcgeek said, why would you be paying them?

Also, just call the insurance company and let them deal with it.

 

[MaxFusion16]

i'm guessing the insurance cut the check to the op and they then cut a check to the dealer.

to answer your question, yes, the body work should be warrantied for at least 6 month if not the lifetime of the vehicle.

go back to the dealer and demand they repair it properly. I'd also take a hard look at the itemized bill, maybe contact your insurance as well, tell them that you suspect the dealer short changed you on the repair and pocketed the difference.

as a last resort, file a complaint with the better business bureau.

and a word of advice for the future, don't automatically trust a dealer just because they sold you the car; often times, dealers contract out the body work to a local bodyshop, they don't do it in house, and often times, they use aftermarket or junk yard parts by default, unless you specifically request otherwise.

you could've saved a lot of money and headache by going to a reputable independent body shop.

 

[Zenmervolt]

My theory is that those bastards gave us some random/old door and realized it didn't have hooks, so yanked one from the side that had them and just left 1 on both sides. I don't know why it took us over a month to realize it, probably because we never use the screen and it's such a small thing that we overlooked it.

Yeah, no. Those little trim pieces cost next to nothing; there's no way they "yanked one from the side that had them" just to make both sides useless.

I'm not sure that you understand what a "new door" means. They don't just take the whole thing off, interior trim and all, and drop a new one in. The "new door" is just a metal shell; they take off all your old interior trim, all the old wiring, everything from the old door (often even the window glass if it's still good) and then mount it in the new shell. The issues you're seeing are likely just the result of the old trim having been pulled off the old door and put on the new door.

As far as additional inspections, that's par for the course. Bodywork is complicated. It's expensive. And there's almost always something else that just isn't possible to see until you're halfway through the repair.

As others have said, the dealership almost certainly did not do the work themselves. They probably have a contract with a local collision shop who just tell the dealership what they need and what they've done. Then you pay the dealer and the dealer pays the shop that actually did the work.

You may have a chance at getting them to replace the two missing hooks, but that's about it, realistically speaking.

ZV

 

[alkemyst]

Backing up ZV above, the sun screen hooks have nothing to do with the door sheet metal.

Also in autobody work you usually get what you pay for. There are places that will paint an entire car for less than $300 and others that want more than $10k for that same job and same paint code.

 

[Kantastic]

I spoke to Allstate and they said that in order to have someone from Allstate inspect the car, the repair shop would have to request it. I plan on bringing the car back in a few days and seeing what the dealer says.

Yeah, no. Those little trim pieces cost next to nothing; there's no way they "yanked one from the side that had them" just to make both sides useless.
ZV

Where else would the 2 hooks have gone? How does one explain the fact that one side looks like it was glued on (and misaligned)? What are the chances that one hook is missing from both sides, when they've rarely ever been used? Maybe they had to remove both hooks to work on the interior and lost them. Just because they cost nothing doesn't mean they had any spare pieces on hand.

As for the definition of a new door, maybe I'm misinformed on what a new door is. I know the windows, if in tact, were to be kept, but I was told by Allstate that they would pay for 2 brand new doors. I did overlook one point, they had to get the windows in the doors somehow, so the crimping issue is to be expected if the servicemen halfassed the job while assembling the door. I thought that they would literally take the doors out and replace them with brand new doors, exterior metal, interior handles/buttons, the whole thing. The inside of the car looks to be the same. Stains, dings, dents, all still there from prior to the accident and repair.

As others have said, the dealership almost certainly did not do the work themselves. They probably have a contract with a local collision shop who just tell the dealership what they need and what they've done. Then you pay the dealer and the dealer pays the shop that actually did the work.

The Allstate inspector told us that the dealer we intended on taking the car to outsourced bodywork directly across the street. We just felt that it'd be best to get the work done where the car was bought. If anything happened, they're a much larger business than a sole body shop.

I should have known these guys were shady. Back when the car was first bought in '10, there was a leaking issue with the edges of the windshield. They said they would replace the windshield, and that they already ordered a new one, but upon getting the car, all they did was put wax or glue to block any gaps causing the leak. Not a big deal, but I just don't like being lied to.

 

[AMDMaddness]

They dont have to take apart any door metal to install glass... it just slides in... Putting glass in your door doesn't actually cause any visible damage. Sounds like they re-skinned the doors. http://www.classictrucks.com/tech/1103clt_how_to_reskin_a_door/viewall.html thats pretty much what they do to reskin one. While not the best video it shows how glass comes out of a door http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-zXtPIok10&list=UUWLZh7Nji49c0akHXUyhrIQ&index=8&feature=plcp

 

[Kantastic]

They dont have to take apart any door metal to install glass... it just slides in... Putting glass in your door doesn't actually cause any visible damage. Sounds like they re-skinned the doors. http://www.classictrucks.com/tech/1103clt_how_to_reskin_a_door/viewall.html thats pretty much what they do to reskin one. While not the best video it shows how glass comes out of a door http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-zXtPIok10&list=UUWLZh7Nji49c0akHXUyhrIQ&index=8&feature=plcp

Alright, I'm bad at this car lingo, so I thought I'd provide the part numbers of the doors:
67050-SHJ-A70ZZ
67550-SHJ-A60ZZ
There are other part numbers, but those are like $40-50 dollar parts not worth mentioning.

What would have needed to be done to install these? Is re-skinning normal procedure? And the work also notes some electrical work being done to the wiring of the doors.

Here's what the notes say:
Customer request: Please repair the drivers side 2 doors and mirror. Estimate of about $2,000 plus tax. As per estimate replaced the both sliding doors on the right side and door shells high strength steel and both pillars and rear bumper cover and fuel filler and refinish the assembly quarter and lens tail lamp outer LT and the sliding door stop.
Note that they called us after we left the car and told us the repairs would be almost $5000 because the doors needed to be replaced. We told them insurance gave us $3,700 - $1,000 (deductible), and they said they'll do it for the quoted price. Supplemental inspections were done, and we received another $1200~ in checks from Allstate.

Body:
The L/S slide door does not open with switch on dash and must pull L/S slide door handle twice before door opens.
Found the above concern happening when L/S slide door is opened.
Found L/S slide door actuator knob position change not to register.
Repaired the ground connection at the knob switch.
Reinstalled all panels and retested door operation.
Ok after repair.

Does everything look in order? It doesn't seem like they replaced the "tail lamp outer LT" or the "rear bumper cover" or the "fuel filler". I know for a fact they didn't replace the rear bumper cover because the 2 dents that were sustained in a minor accident back when the car was almost brand new are still there. I really should have taken a closer look at the bill before signing, I had no idea they were doing all these extra services. I know everything from this point on is hearsay, so I'm not going to push the subject, but those damn sun screen hooks are really getting to me.

 

[compman25]

It's a month after the fact and all your doing is complaining on here? Live with it since you aren't going to go do anything about it as shown by what you said from when you purchased the car in 2010. If they said they are putting a new windshield in before you bought it, you make them put the windshield in. If the body work sucks, you make them fix it.

 

[Kantastic]

It's a month after the fact and all your doing is complaining on here? Live with it since you aren't going to go do anything about it as shown by what you said from when you purchased the car in 2010. If they said they are putting a new windshield in before you bought it, you make them put the windshield in. If the body work sucks, you make them fix it.

If you can't contribute to this thread positively, get out. I'd love to 'make them fix it', but on what grounds? The only problem I have is the screen hooks, but, as I acknowledged (without your help), it's been a month. Do I wish I had noticed it earlier? Yes. But I didn't, so tough shit for me. I guess you were born with absolute knowledge and unrivaled intellect. Well damn, congratulations to you.

How about you stop being condescending for a moment and rationalize with me? I just started college, I don't have a driver's license, I don't have a car, I've never dealt with insurance, this is all very new to me. My dad, a first-gen immigrant, doesn't know how to nor doesn't want to make a big deal out of this. I thought I could get some sound advice from the garage subforum, and, for the most part, I did. But you can continue crapping on me if it makes you feel better about yourself. *applause*

I'm not here for life advice from you, I'm here for car/insurance/body shop advice. I'm just trying to figure out the ropes so I can offer advice to my father. As long as the doors work, he's content. Shitty crimping? Fine. Milking insurance for services they didn't provide? Fine. The doors work, the car looks good (for the most part), there aren't any major problems. If it helps someone earn a little extra without costing us anything, then why not? But if they were to make money at our expense, then I'm not settling for that. Rather than walk in blind, I decided I'd ask around for advice dealing with this issue. Again, if you have no advice to offer, I don't need you here.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Where else would the 2 hooks have gone? How does one explain the fact that one side looks like it was glued on (and misaligned)? What are the chances that one hook is missing from both sides, when they've rarely ever been used? Maybe they had to remove both hooks to work on the interior and lost them. Just because they cost nothing doesn't mean they had any spare pieces on hand.

The chances that one hook is missing from each side are far greater than the chances that the body shop took one hook from one side and glued it on the other side, intentionally making both sides useless.

It's very likely that in the process of removing and replacing the interior trim, those two hooks are simply the ones that are easiest to knock out (possibly because they must be removed to access a screw that holds the trim to the metal door) and were simply overlooked.

It's much, much, much, much, much (get the idea by now?) more likely that the two hooks simply both came off during the re-mounting process and the shop overlooked them.

As for the definition of a new door, maybe I'm misinformed on what a new door is.

There's no "maybe" about it. You clearly are misinformed.

I know the windows, if in tact, were to be kept, but I was told by Allstate that they would pay for 2 brand new doors. I did overlook one point, they had to get the windows in the doors somehow, so the crimping issue is to be expected if the servicemen halfassed the job while assembling the door. I thought that they would literally take the doors out and replace them with brand new doors, exterior metal, interior handles/buttons, the whole thing. The inside of the car looks to be the same. Stains, dings, dents, all still there from prior to the accident and repair.

"Two brand new doors" does not include new wiring, nor does it include new interior door trim. Hell, depending on the amount of damage it's common to use the same exterior handles on a "new" door as long as the originals were't damaged. A "new door" is just the metal shell. All the ancillary bits are going to be transferred from the old door (unless they are broken as well).

ZV

 

[alkemyst]

OP your insurance company should be handling all the 'warranty' issues here on out.

If your car was not returned in 100% of the condition it was in prior to the accident, they will make sure it's fixed.

It sounds like you agreed to a less than perfect repair when you agreed to have $5000+ of work done for less than $4000.