It almost seems like atheism is becoming a religion unto itself

[videogames101]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

ok, global warming, debatable, but still has failed to convince the world

convince the world? look how powerful the environmental sect is. everybody is "going" green and wacking it to save the world propaganda.

what more do you want? the solution to end what global warming is being portrayed as is physically unattainable.

scientists want stem cell research, but religious nuts prevent it, who has power then?

you just reduced the opposition to religious nuts. not very scientific...XD

as i pointed out above, no

whatever.

um, lol...

 

[skace]

Closed minded men of faith (not all) are trying desperately to lump Atheists or Non-theists into one group, label it a religion, and then label them hypocrites. It's a decent, yet easily flawed tactic but an obvious defense mechanism. Congrats on being part of the problem.

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
I have learned absolutely nothing new from this thread. The same old arguments, the same old shit. But I commend all the participants for (largely) only attacking thoughts n' ideas and not individuals.

This place seems to be getting better. :thumbsup:

Jinx.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
secularism and humanism are most definitely religions. you dont need an official deity to possess the same radical and fundamentalist qualities often associated with "real" religions.

science has becoming more and more of religion too...especially in the schools. indoctrination ftw!

Just like math right? Kids should have a choice NOT to learn these crazy subjects. English also, fuck that noise.

 

[Leafy]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: videogames101

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
secularism and humanism are most definitely religions. you dont need an official deity to possess the same radical and fundamentalist qualities often associated with "real" religions.

science has becoming more and more of religion too...especially in the schools. indoctrination ftw!

Well, considering science rests on logic, reasoning, and the scientific method, I'd say it's exactly the opposite of religion.

science rests on politics. logic, reasoning, and the scientific method are a distant second.

your blinded loyalty is testament to its blatant flaws. you ignore negatives in the name of "logic".

heh.

science rests on politics? ignoring negatives? rofl, how about you prove either of these points before making them? But then again, thats you religious folks again, "wtf is evidence?"

are you saying science isn't political? there is a financial and political gain in today's science.

dont you feel a little bit suspicious when leaders of the world start justifying activities in the name of "science", "progress", and using examples like gravity to support their zealotry.

scoff away.

Scoff? I'm laughing my ass off at the little fantasy world you've created in which science and application of the science are the same thing.

ok?

are you kidding me? look how scientist have failed to convince people of global warming,

global warming is debatable, and is a textbook example of science gone very very very political.

look how stem cell research is failing to move ahead in western countries

stem cell research is another very very political example.

look at the % of the population that still believes the earth is only 10,000 years old. Then tell em scientists have major power.

there is legitimacy in that argument, in my opinion. but either way, the science lobby is far more powerful than the creationist. it's in the schools, government, media, culture, and society.

the way religion is portrayed as being teh ultimate influence is beyond embellished, if not false.

I believe George Carlin said it best both about religion and environmental issues. Basically what he says is that we're not destroying the planet. Earth is a bunch of rock and metal, we're not destroying that. We're destroying ourselves, we're destroying everything biological on Earth.

science has becoming more and more of religion too...especially in the schools. indoctrination ftw!

Way to be a fear monger.

Definition of Religion
religion a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Definition of Science
science systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.

I believe that science has no ritual observances, or a moral code whatsoever. If you could find these elusive documents, please point me towards them. Of course, if you can't find these documents then how could anyone else? Science requires no blind faith in a higher power, it contains no statements that cannot be verified, unlike religions. I find it hard to believe that there is an invisible man, woman or creature living in the sky, an immortal and all-powerful figure. The fact that he, she or it can't find the time to make a few public announcements verifying his own existence compounds my disbelief in the ridiculousness of most religions.

 

[Noobtastic]

Originally posted by: skace
Closed minded men of faith (not all) are trying desperately to lump Atheists or Non-theists into one group, label it a religion, and then label them hypocrites. It's a decent, yet easily flawed tactic but an obvious defense mechanism. Congrats on being part of the problem.

zealotry again.

you're a fundamentalist like everybody else. denial is step #1...XD

Just like math right? Kids should have a choice NOT to learn these crazy subjects. English also, fuck that noise.

that's an unfair comparison and your scoffing is far from mature. a science worshiper like yourself clearly doesnt follow the rules of logic, or else you'd be approaching this topic with fairness and not sarcasm.

I believe George Carlin said it best both about religion and environmental issues.

so now you're quoting george carlin? the poster boy of atheism?

Way to be a fear monger.

way to reduce an argument to juvenile symbolism.

science systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.

semantics. im not debating science itself but the science community. stop quoting bulls**t and focus on exactly what im saying. if you refuse to quote my EXACT WORDS and instead resort to selective argument and stupid wikipedia searches than stay in the kiddie forums.

I believe that science has no ritual observances, or a moral code whatsoever

you believe.

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
secularism and humanism are most definitely religions. you dont need an official deity to possess the same radical and fundamentalist qualities often associated with "real" religions.

science has becoming more and more of religion too...especially in the schools. indoctrination ftw!

Just like math right? Kids should have a choice NOT to learn these crazy subjects. English also, fuck that noise.

Hush, or the Newtonian Physics Gestapo will come and take you away. But do not worry, there is a growing underground movement that will one day rise up and destroy the science indoctrination machine. No longer will our children be slaves to the socio-politcal dogma that is gravity. No more will we bear the cross of vector calculus! Finally, we will free ourselves of the oppressive organic chemistry oligarchy!

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
are you saying science isn't political? there is a financial and political gain in today's science.

dont you feel a little bit suspicious when leaders of the world start justifying activities in the name of "science", "progress", and using examples like gravity to support their zealotry.

scoff away.

Ok, i already pwned some fool in P&N for making this claim. Where did you hear this?I ts clearly part of some right wingnut radio show talking point or something. A talking point generated by fools that dont know the first thing about science. Now i ask you, what are your references for papers/books to support such an assertion?

On topic, the only thing these threads do is make me sad at the level of scientific illiteracy present on a forum where people are supposed to be educated. I mean shit, you are all using computers and everything now...

 

[Noobtastic]

Ok, i already pwned some fool in P&N for making this claim.

really? you "pwned" them? they teach you that in wow?

Where did you hear this?

uh, seriously?

ts clearly part of some right wingnut radio show talking point or something.

is that the pwnage?

A talking point generated by fools that dont know the first thing about science. Now i ask you, what are your references for papers/books to support such an assertion?

http://www.nov55.com/ovr.html

http://www.zmag.org/content/sh...ticle.cfm?ItemID=12951

http://gmopundit.blogspot.com/...public-of-science.html


science is used as a scapegoat for political agenda.

a little anecdotal: ive found a lot of my public school friends resort to emotionally charged and violent statements made at me during "discussions." how do you know the earth is x years old? response: BECAUSE IT'S SCIENCE!

people no longer think and instead read a text filled with "facts" and then spout it back at their peers. there is no questioning. there is no research.

and people like you justify it with unfair comparisons like the irrefutable concept of gravity..like it's the posterboy of all things science and everything and anything science should be given the same respect.

plenty of championed theories and concepts have been updated, ended, falsified, completely refuted, and semi-correct over the past centuries.

science is growing...but that is no longer taught. popular words include "progress" and 'modernization" those who say nay get the creationist shaft and are promptly classified in the nuthjob category as many "scientists" have done.


grow the fuck up.

 

[PottedMeat]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic
http://www.nov55.com/ovr.html

Holy shit this guy is fucking insane. He sounds like he got stuck in his mushroom farm with no human contact and thought he could rederive all the physical laws and theories in existence.

Do you actually have a point to make?

 

[videogames101]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Ok, i already pwned some fool in P&N for making this claim.

really? you "pwned" them? they teach you that in wow?

Where did you hear this?

uh, seriously?

ts clearly part of some right wingnut radio show talking point or something.

is that the pwnage?

A talking point generated by fools that dont know the first thing about science. Now i ask you, what are your references for papers/books to support such an assertion?

http://www.nov55.com/ovr.html

http://www.zmag.org/content/sh...ticle.cfm?ItemID=12951

http://gmopundit.blogspot.com/...public-of-science.html


science is used as a scapegoat for political agenda.

a little anecdotal: ive found a lot of my public school friends resort to emotionally charged and violent statements made at me during "discussions." how do you know the earth is x years old? response: BECAUSE IT'S SCIENCE!

people no longer think and instead read a text filled with "facts" and then spout it back at their peers. there is no questioning. there is no research.

and people like you justify it with unfair comparisons like the irrefutable concept of gravity..like it's the posterboy of all things science and everything and anything science should be given the same respect.

plenty of championed theories and concepts have been updated, ended, falsified, completely refuted, and semi-correct over the past centuries.

science is growing...but that is no longer taught. popular words include "progress" and 'modernization" those who say nay get the creationist shaft and are promptly classified in the nuthjob category as many "scientists" have done.


grow the fuck up.

damn dude, if your not going to beleive anything scientists have already spent years researching and proving, then good luck to you. Everyone knows that a simple google search could give more evidence that the earth is 4.6 billion years old then you could spout bible shit until you die. The fact is, you haven't named a single political agenda justified by science.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Oh, fuck it. I had this long thing written out, but youre not worth it. Youre hopeless...

Logic and reason are delicate tools that dont work well when ignorance and closed mindedness are employed.

BTW, the "pwned" thing was used because i thought i should use words that you understand--n00b.

 

[videogames101]

But, lets get back to the topic, shall we? Atheism is nothing more then believing that there is no higher being of any kind, everthing we see is what it is and nothing more. EVEN if you had a point about modern scientists(which you don't) that still doesn't show how you came to the conclusion that atheism is now a religion.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Have you noticed that die hard atheists are adopting the same tactics, tone and rhetoric as a lot of other religious zealots?

I don't get it atheists, if they're not hurting anyone, just leave 'em alone, huh?

Discuss

yes, a long time ago.

 

[blackllotus]

the earth is flat

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Noobtastic

Ok, i already pwned some fool in P&N for making this claim.

really? you "pwned" them? they teach you that in wow?

Where did you hear this?

uh, seriously?

ts clearly part of some right wingnut radio show talking point or something.

is that the pwnage?

A talking point generated by fools that dont know the first thing about science. Now i ask you, what are your references for papers/books to support such an assertion?

http://www.nov55.com/ovr.html

http://www.zmag.org/content/sh...ticle.cfm?ItemID=12951

http://gmopundit.blogspot.com/...public-of-science.html


science is used as a scapegoat for political agenda.

a little anecdotal: ive found a lot of my public school friends resort to emotionally charged and violent statements made at me during "discussions." how do you know the earth is x years old? response: BECAUSE IT'S SCIENCE!

people no longer think and instead read a text filled with "facts" and then spout it back at their peers. there is no questioning. there is no research.

and people like you justify it with unfair comparisons like the irrefutable concept of gravity..like it's the posterboy of all things science and everything and anything science should be given the same respect.

plenty of championed theories and concepts have been updated, ended, falsified, completely refuted, and semi-correct over the past centuries.

science is growing...but that is no longer taught. popular words include "progress" and 'modernization" those who say nay get the creationist shaft and are promptly classified in the nuthjob category as many "scientists" have done.


grow the fuck up.

the details behind the discoveries science has made is something most people are not going to understand. Can you tell me what the Hubble Constant is and what it represents and how it fits into the picture of the universe's age? (which could be one of many answers to the question: how do we know how old the universe is) Can you detail the exact process of carbon dating using the assorted isotopes of carbon? (to answer numerous questions about how long ago anything was).

to research and challenge those ideas, well... a lot of them a regular educated person couldn't do. They would have to have specialized in specific areas of concentration. I don't expect a business employee to challenge String Theory, for example. To research it to the point of understanding is not feasible unless that's your concentration. Then, you can work with teams to challenge that notion.
There is plenty of challenging of theories going on at any moment, but it's not work for the regular person to do. That is why they simply accept it.
It is human nature to accept things that have been generally accepted as true by large numbers of people, because it is likely what is being communicated has little importance to your overall moment to moment life and instead of seeking proof, simply accept enough suggestions that seem to point to proof.
Thus, we have religion vs science. Except one side provides a LOT more information and quite a bit more facts that work as proof than the other.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: irishScott
People who start threads like these are generally either naive mid-puberty kids or people with no lives who just get a rise out of bashing others with their "knowledge".

Debate requires an open mind and a willingness to learn/admit fault on the part of both parties involved. Argument generally consists of close-minded people who simply want to make themselves feel better.

Many of the posts in this thread consist of the latter.

I'm just saying...

So very true. I used to be one of those closed minded religious zealots myself. Over time, (and with some maturity) I realized that if God does exist, (I personally believe God does, just not in the form that the world religions teach.) He/She/It would not want any person to shove their beliefs down peoples throats.

The fact is any one of could be wrong in our beliefs and probably are. Until God actually physically meets with me face to face, I will never be absolutely certain there is one.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: videogames101
But, lets get back to the topic, shall we? Atheism is nothing more then believing that there is no higher being of any kind, everthing we see is what it is and nothing more. EVEN if you had a point about modern scientists(which you don't) that still doesn't show how you came to the conclusion that atheism is now a religion.

Because it's based on faith, just like religion.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Kalvin00

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: Kalvin00

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: Kalvin00

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
people who can believe in something bigger than them so long as it doesn't lead them to do and say stupid shit,

That alone is impossible in and of itself.

Explain.

Religion is a ridiculous concept, therefore one cannot believe it and not 'do stupid shit', because believing it is....well, stupid.

Alright, let me qualify that statement:

So long as their belief does not lead them to do stupid shit that will affect those around them.

I have not a problem in the world with that.

The problem is these people try to push their concepts of living upon you...and some of them even run for President.

Who is pushing their religion on you? And if they are, you don't have to accept it. Most people don't really follow religion that much anyway. If they did, the world would not be such a violent place.

If you actually follow the message of the major religions, the world would be peaceful, not like it is today.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: videogames101
But, lets get back to the topic, shall we? Atheism is nothing more then believing that there is no higher being of any kind, everthing we see is what it is and nothing more. EVEN if you had a point about modern scientists(which you don't) that still doesn't show how you came to the conclusion that atheism is now a religion.

Because it's based on faith, just like religion.

If only repeating it to yourself over and over again actually made it true. Perhaps you just have faith that Atheism is based on faith. See how that works?

 

[Noobtastic]

Originally posted by: videogames101
But, lets get back to the topic, shall we? Atheism is nothing more then believing that there is no higher being of any kind, everthing we see is what it is and nothing more. EVEN if you had a point about modern scientists(which you don't) that still doesn't show how you came to the conclusion that atheism is now a religion.

semantics.

the argument isn't whether atheism contains a real deity. rather, the culture and society of what atheism has become.

c-o-m-p-r-e-h-e-n-s-i-o-n.

damn dude, if your not going to beleive anything scientists have already spent years researching and proving, then good luck to you. Everyone knows that a simple google search could give more evidence that the earth is 4.6 billion years old then you could spout bible shit until you die. The fact is, you haven't named a single political agenda justified by science.

uhhh...i was merely giving an example. it is this mentality that is being hammered in our schools. hate and loathing for anything that questions science.

*reads 1984*

the details behind the discoveries science has made is something most people are not going to understand. Can you tell me what the Hubble Constant is and what it represents and how it fits into the picture of the universe's age? (which could be one of many answers to the question: how do we know how old the universe is) Can you detail the exact process of carbon dating using the assorted isotopes of carbon? (to answer numerous questions about how long ago anything was).

fallacy #1 - credibility by consumption. something so "vast", "complex", and "sophisticated" proves its credibility.

im not challenging the theories/facts you've mentioned since i know nothing of them...but it's that above method of analyzing that bothers me.

to research and challenge those ideas, well... a lot of them a regular educated person couldn't do. They would have to have specialized in specific areas of concentration. I don't expect a business employee to challenge String Theory, for example. To research it to the point of understanding is not feasible unless that's your concentration. Then, you can work with teams to challenge that notion.

but that's not the science im referring to.

There is plenty of challenging of theories going on at any moment, but it's not work for the regular person to do. That is why they simply accept it.

and that works, most of the time.

It is human nature to accept things that have been generally accepted as true by large numbers of people, because it is likely what is being communicated has little importance to your overall moment to moment life and instead of seeking proof, simply accept enough suggestions that seem to point to proof.

this is the problem. science has set itself up on a biblical scale. it cannot be questioned because nobody knows how [bad schools]. and even if they could, they'd be sandbagged by the violent supporters and advocates.

yet another slippery slope.


basically, i dont like organized science. it's become too political, too purpose-driven to be considered real in my mind.

i dont question science in general. no no no, im all into natural selection and evolution...but it's this new breed of idiots coming out of the schools that frighten me.

Thus, we have religion vs science. Except one side provides a LOT more information and quite a bit more facts that work as proof than the other.

that's what scientists reduce it to. religion vs. science.

makes it easy to validate yourself eh? selective thinking...selective thinking...

of course, that's the only way. people are too stupid to consider more than *gasp* two subjects.

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: videogames101
Atheism is nothing more then believing that there is no higher being of any kind, everthing we see is what it is and nothing more.

Look up the difference between "strong" and "weak" atheism to see a point. Ironically, "strong" atheism is intellectually weaker, and it's the one for which the semantic charge of "religion" or "faith" can easily stick.

If you see the logic and are intellectually honest, you'll see that strong atheism, weak atheism, and various faiths are quite compatible, in the sense of "you have your beliefs/non-beliefs, and I have my beliefs/non-beliefs, and none of us have proof". Beyond that is politics and the idiocy of "religious" wars.