IT Field Employment/Job Crisis at 35... What to do?

[MagnusTheBrewer]

You need to identify your talents and evaluate how you best learn. 35 is not too old to change direction. You've already made the choice that money isn't your primary motivation. School is merely a catalyst.

 

[ibex333]

Lots of solid advice here. Thanks so much everyone.

I have a few questions regarding job search. So far, I been trying to get a job working for the city(because of good benefits) and also sending random resumes on Indeed, Monster, etc.

I got a total of two interviews with the city in two years, both of which rejected me without explanation. I been to a few organizations that help with job search, and spoke to the job placement councilor in my college. Been told numerous times my resume is fine, and I interview fine as well. So I don't get what the issues is.


Tried applying to hospitals, always get a standard rejection mail few months later.

What gives? Is there something I am doing wrong?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Lots of solid advice here. Thanks so much everyone.

I have a few questions regarding job search. So far, I been trying to get a job working for the city(because of good benefits) and also sending random resumes on Indeed, Monster, etc.

I got a total of two interviews with the city in two years, both of which rejected me without explanation. I been to a few organizations that help with job search, and spoke to the job placement councilor in my college. Been told numerous times my resume is fine, and I interview fine as well. So I don't get what the issues is.


Tried applying to hospitals, always get a standard rejection mail few months later.

What gives? Is there something I am doing wrong?

You might try applying to the military. Civilian contractors are paid reasonably well and have good benefits.

 

[Exterous]

I got a total of two interviews with the city in two years, both of which rejected me without explanation. I been to a few organizations that help with job search, and spoke to the job placement councilor in my college. Been told numerous times my resume is fine, and I interview fine as well. So I don't get what the issues is.

My guess would be a fair number of people are doing the same thing you are so they have a lot of applicants to choose from. Probably a fair bit of nepotism and internal hiring thrown in. I know in MI many (all?) government jobs have to be posted publicly and go through the entire interview process with X number of external candidates even if the organization was already planning on hiring an internal candidate.

Don't forget to look at school IT job postings which may be on the individual school's website instead of a overall government or aggregator

 

[Tweak155]

Lots of solid advice here. Thanks so much everyone.

I have a few questions regarding job search. So far, I been trying to get a job working for the city(because of good benefits) and also sending random resumes on Indeed, Monster, etc.

I got a total of two interviews with the city in two years, both of which rejected me without explanation. I been to a few organizations that help with job search, and spoke to the job placement councilor in my college. Been told numerous times my resume is fine, and I interview fine as well. So I don't get what the issues is.


Tried applying to hospitals, always get a standard rejection mail few months later.

What gives? Is there something I am doing wrong?

Just gotta keep going through the motions until you find something. I also recommend Dice.com - they were at least at one point one of the go-to sites for tech type jobs. It's a mixed blessing, when I put my resume there years ago I got a job really quickly, but now even years later I get contacted about my old resume on there sometimes, even though I set it to "not interested in a new position" and set the salary super high. Likely a welcomed problem from your current perspective though!

 

[NesuD]

Though the issue is most jobs now is they seem to require lot of work experience. Even entry level jobs now are being posted with requiring 3-5 years of experience. Some even specify a max. I saw one where you needed at least 3 years of experience but no more than 5. Its hard to get experience if you can't actually get a job in that field.

I once saw a listing for a windows server admin that listed a 3-5 yr experience requirement for Server 2016. Thing to remember is these requirements are often written by HR monkeys who have no clue and rely on google to write their listing. Know your stuff and sell yourself in the interview process.

 

[sourceninja]

...

 

[WT]

I'm in the same boat as OP, only much older. Currently 49, 20+ years with a school district as an IT support tech, and my boss hates my guts. He and I just cannot communicate at all - my last eval in November he told me that one of us had to go - either him or I - as we could not work together. It used to be once a month he'd yell at me in front of co-workers, but lately it's once a week. He chased me down the hallway today after I did something to upset him. He turns beet red and gets within 6 inches of my face - just a bundle of rage. I am like a beaten dog at this point .. lost all confidence in doing my job properly, and I have no union protection or a supervisor above him to go to.

I wish I could stay with the school and change to another department, but there aren't any openings that match my skillset, so now I'd have to investigate other schools nearby to look for openings, but at some point after 20+ years, I am not even sure I want to continue to do IT work !!! Things have changed so much in this field, and my vision is failing making it damn near impossible to repair these tiny ass Chromebooks we have in abundance now. I am trying to outlast the guy, to be honest, but I doubt he is leaving anytime soon. Most of my contacts in the field have dried up or moved on, and I am fiercely loyal to my work, even in the face of this verbal abuse. I think it would take physical abuse to get me to actually leave, sad to say.

I think what most crushes me is the loss of confidence in my area of expertise. I feel like wherever I go or whatever I do, I will fail at that too. It was a real eye opener and confidence booster when I took a seasonal job at FedEx last winter and went in there scared shitless at doing something different after 20 years, and for a 49 y.o, I worked just as hard as the 18-22 y.o.'s that dominate the loading docks. I even dropped 15 lbs on my already skinny frame (6-3, 185lbs, down to 170 when I left there). But, it gave me an immense confidence boost to know I could do it. It wrecks your body, so it's nothing I could do full time, but it also was a job that 18 y.o. me had a chance to do with my school classmates, and I said at that time I would NEVER work that job, and 30 years later damned if I didn't do it !

Sorry to rant here .. I've had a bad day and I don't know where else to turn. This thread hit home with me when I read it earlier today.

 

[sourceninja]

...

 

[Red Squirrel]

If your boss ever screams at you in front of others or gets 6 inches from your face, it is him who needs to go. He is a terrible manager. Screaming and threatening are not management tactics that will ever get the desired results. It's a shame you can't record him and go to the school board.

Unfortunately it's very hard to make someone like that go, they typically love their job and the power it gives them and they take joy in abusing people and stepping on toes. They are basically bullies. You can try to report them for harassment or w/e but those type of people know how to play the system and will crush you. It's their word against yours and anything questionable they do or say will never be in writing, so you have nothing to go on. It's most likely illegal to record them too. Though that depends on location, but either way it would probably be against most company policies and it would be used against you. You are really between a rock and a hard place when dealing with those types. I had a manager like that when I worked at the hospital here, well he was a customer but practically my manager given I was stationed at his premises as a contractor. Guy was a total asshole, everyone hated him. When I saw a position pop up for the job I'm at now I decided it was a way out and I liked the idea that it was shift work. Best thing I ever did.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Move to Alaska and live off the land.......

 

[sourceninja]

...

 

[WT]

If your boss ever screams at you in front of others or gets 6 inches from your face, it is him who needs to go. He is a terrible manager. Screaming and threatening are not management tactics that will ever get the desired results. It's a shame you can't record him and go to the school board.

Some 'good news' if it can be viewed as such, but he texted me on my drive into the office yesterday. I immediately went into crisis mode, assuming the worst, and prepared to face another verbal tongue lashing behind closed doors. Much to my surprise, he apologized to me and said it is his greatest flaw and he is working to tame those outbreaks. Its a very quiet office, so I'm guessing the superintendent heard him yelling and wanted to know what was going on. I in turn apologized for my comment that set him off and we discussed how we can better communicate. I'd like to possibly stay with the job, but may be able to take a different position in another department. I am just not sure what to do next at this point ... *shrug*

 

[Red Squirrel]

It's good that he acknowledges it's a problem. So it might get better. Often people like that either don't care, or they don't even realize it.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Even robots will become NOC monkeys one day.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Some 'good news' if it can be viewed as such, but he texted me on my drive into the office yesterday. I immediately went into crisis mode, assuming the worst, and prepared to face another verbal tongue lashing behind closed doors. Much to my surprise, he apologized to me and said it is his greatest flaw and he is working to tame those outbreaks. Its a very quiet office, so I'm guessing the superintendent heard him yelling and wanted to know what was going on. I in turn apologized for my comment that set him off and we discussed how we can better communicate. I'd like to possibly stay with the job, but may be able to take a different position in another department. I am just not sure what to do next at this point ... *shrug*

And I thought my boss was bad!

 

[Chaotic42]

It's definitely tough. I used to live in Central, IL. It is *VERY* hard to get qualified workers there. Unless you want a couple acres of ground and/or a decent amount of hunting/fishing there is almost nothing appealing to someone that did not grow up in a rural area. For someone that is used to living in a large city, they will more than likely be miserable moving to a smaller/rural area. The inverse isn't so true. There's a number of GenX/Millennials that grew up in rural areas and GTFO when they could. Never to come back. It's evident by flight/popution growth from midwest states and rural areas

Yeah, it's hard to get people to move even to fairly large cities like Saint Louis or Cincinnati. I'm paid really well for living in the midwest, but it's still not where I'd live if I could get the same job elsewhere for similar pay.

OP, my only advice would be to learn programming in a high-demand field. Something like AI (CUDA) might be good. I'm not really hip with the kids on the latest technology outside of my field, but if you can learn to be decent at something that's either too hard or too boring for most people, you're likely to be paid well.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Lots of solid advice here. Thanks so much everyone.

I have a few questions regarding job search. So far, I been trying to get a job working for the city(because of good benefits) and also sending random resumes on Indeed, Monster, etc.

I got a total of two interviews with the city in two years, both of which rejected me without explanation. I been to a few organizations that help with job search, and spoke to the job placement councilor in my college. Been told numerous times my resume is fine, and I interview fine as well. So I don't get what the issues is.


Tried applying to hospitals, always get a standard rejection mail few months later.

What gives? Is there something I am doing wrong?

Apply to more. When I say more, I mean an absolute shitton of applications. I've gone through two serious rounds of job searching since my first Real People Job (not walmart). Coming out of the military, I applied to work for about 3 months straight, applied to at least 100 jobs before finding one worth a crap. Coming out of that one about 3 years later, I applied for almost dead on 365 days, and sent out over 400 applications during that timeframe. Roughly 10% contacted back, roughly 10% of those contacts were even in the vague realm of pay that I needed to warrant me leaving my existing job (so like, four jobs) and I picked the best among them.

Unless you've got exceedingly high credentials which can command whatever you want, wherever you want (hint: you don't), you need quantity. Garbage jobs are a dime a dozen, and you don't know that they're garbage until you've waded through the mix.

FYI at no point did I apply to any job which exceeded my credentials (like requiring a degree when I didn't have one, for instance) and I was applying to pretty much everything from North Carolina, to Ohio, to Maine. This was with a TS/SCI clearance, a binder of certifications, and 9 years of govt work under my belt.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Apply to more. When I say more, I mean an absolute shitton of applications.

That.

 

[Darkstar757]

Bud PM me. I run my own company and I am close in age with you and id be happy to help a fellow ATOT'er. I can help you find your way sir.


Cheers,
Darkstart

 

[compcons]

A few things people have mentioned that can use some emphasis.

1) Find a role in a slice of the industry with negative unemployment. The biggest one is cyber security. Real cyber security, not firewall network stuff. There are programs through the SANS institute and Univ. of Baltimore. At one point, the University of Baltimore was recruiting high school kids with the slightest aptitude to get them into the program and then placing them with companies after paid itnernships. They had like a 99.99% placement rate.

If you have cyber security experience and are not employed right now, you should not even be taking up space on this planet.

http://www.ubalt.edu/cpa/graduate-programs-and-certificates/degree-programs/forensic-science/

https://www.sans.org/

As previously mentioned, gaining aptitude in virtualization or cloud is relatively easy and a skill set that is in demand. You can set up a home lab on the cheap, grab some books and start pursuing some sort of certification in those areas. Not as crazy as security, but maybe more to your liking.

2) Network at events and on Linkedin. Every vendor and IT friend you interact with should be a 1st for you. It can open doors. Make sure all your technical training is listed in LI. Recruiters do key word searches and if you have "Norton Ghost", "Acronis" "re-imaging", "virtualization" etc. in your profile, you may gets hits. Literally make sure you find a way to put any specific technology in your profile. I was still getting recruiters looking for a DBA (which was 15 years ago) until I took "SQL" out of my profile.

On the more personal side, you need to attend those "industry events" no matter how lame they are (I am looking at you Data Connectors - Detroit). It's an opportunity to learn and meet people (the vendors at the booths). Lastly, network with your vendors and partners as often as possible. You know that technical person who comes in and tries to sell you the latest greatest software? Get to know them really well. If they offer you lunch, you GO. The vendor and reseller side of IT is very fluid and everyone knows everyone. That means they likely know who has jobs open and can probably even help you find a new gig once you get to know them. I had a Dell rep some time ago that opened my eyes and literally changed my career and my life. Being a reseller, vendor, or contractor can be lucrative and fun. You have no idea how good it can be on the other side of the table.

Good luck!
EH

 

[Red Squirrel]

Considering all the companies that get hacked, I don't think too many bother to hire cybersecurity experts.

I'm sure there is a niche market for it though, like government. NSA, CSIS etc. Those jobs probably pay decent too if you are lucky enough to get in.

 

[urvile]

The company I used to work for had a decent cyber security capability. They poached people from intelligence agencies and federal law enforcement when they first built it up. They then offer it as a service. A way of outsourcing your security to people who are genuine experts.

CISSP was one of the must have qualifications. They do comprehensive penetration testing which includes social engineering. They also did network/computer forensics, hardening of operating system and infrastructure etc. This was in the corporate, defence and government space. It's serious shit.

You need to have marketable skills. For me being proficient at C# .NET and having an in depth understanding of OO programming, OOAD, multi threading etc. has taken me places and given me far more interesting opportunities. Than I might have had otherwise.

I find that having a good linkedin profile which clearly states my skills and experience has helped me network with a lot of recruiters. Linkedin rocks in my experience.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Most jobs also require like 10 years of experience in software/technology that has not even been out for that long.

At least for US tech corps., that's just a "flag" to disqualify American applicants, so that they can hire H1Bs. ("We advertised the job, we didn't find any qualifying applicants, therefore, we need an H1B visa!")

I don't know if it works the same way in Canada.

 

[sze5003]

You want to see if you can advance from the support position to something else like sys admin or networking. Unfortunately many of my friends that did IT did not like programming so they have similar positions now.

I took a few programming courses in my major and then stuck around with a professor that was working for a small IT credit card processing company. Got an internship there years ago, too many to count.

If you hate programming I'd advise sticking with it and using that as a crutch to move on to something else once they see you are pulling your weight and that you are engaged and focused.

You do want to be the go to person for many things. Since I've been at my company about 6 years, the team I'm on always has me doing all kinds of things that don't just involve programming although that's my main role. I have a small team developers I mentor and work with and now they have me doing program wide things that help you get visibility in the company.

It's a lot of BS sometimes but it's hard to move up where I'm at.

If you can get some certifications you are interested in, that may be helpful in moving out of your current role. Or just keep applying for other positions. I'd try an entry level development position and see where that takes you. You may have a chance to move around and tell them you aren't really into development and maybe they can put you to work on something else.