It is illegal for a retailer to ask for your ZIP code for a credit transaction

[Bl0cks]

I have to input my area code using my debit card in the DFW region.

 

[thomsbrain]

My understanding is that this is NOT true for transactions where the bank is asking for the code, which can and does include some retail transactions. Gas stations are among these, and they will continue to legally require your zip.

Also remember that while you can refuse to give your zip, retailers can also refuse to serve you.

In short, nothing meaningful has changed.

 

[MotionMan]

My understanding is that this is NOT true for transactions where the bank is asking for the code, which can and does include some retail transactions. Gas stations are among these, and they will continue to legally require your zip.

Also remember that while you can refuse to give your zip, retailers can also refuse to serve you.

In short, nothing meaningful has changed.

Tell that to the retailers who are being sued.

MotionMan

 

[OUCaptain]

dont be jealous you can't wave yours around and have to keep it in the closet

If I did play for the other team, I doubt id see a reason to wave a flag or hide in a closet.

Back on topic, how did the question of a zip code being personal info ever get to the point of requiring a judge's ruling?

 

[DrPizza]

Checking for the zip code seems like a simple way of verifying the identity, since the alternative is to make everyone go inside and sign for it, and compare the signature to that on the back of the credit card.

If it's not simply used for verification, then put in any random zip code and see what happens.

 

[bruceb]

I do not know for sure, but the Exxon here in Wayne does ask for the zip code. It gets entered in at the pump after you swipe your card.

 

[WelshBloke]

It associates your ZIP code with your credit card number.

Yep. Put in a bogus one and your card comes up as declined.

Surely that means your ZIP code is already linked to your card.

 

[MotionMan]

Surely that means your ZIP code is already linked to your card.

It gives the ZIP to the pump, which passes through the station, gets sent through the ether and to the credit company, and back again.

It can get intercepted along the way, in theory.

There is a station that I stopped going to many, many years ago because, without fail, about a week after using my card there, I would get a call about some fraudulent charge on my card. It happened three times before I put it all together.

MotionMan

 

[OUCaptain]

Surely that means your ZIP code is already linked to your card.

CC companies usually like to know your address.

 

[WelshBloke]

It gives the ZIP to the pump, which passes through the station, gets sent through the ether and to the credit company, and back again.

It can get intercepted along the way, in theory.

There is a station that I stopped going to many, many years ago because, without fail, about a week after using my card there, I would get a call about some fraudulent charge on my card. It happened three times before I put it all together.

MotionMan

So at the moment they need your ZIP code and CC for payment, and your worried they may intercept the info, get your ZIP code and make fraudulent charges.

If they didnt need your ZIP code they could still intercept your info (sans ZIP code, which wouldnt matter as noone would ask for it) and make fraudulent charges.

 

[WT]

Ummm, Harbor Freight asked for my ZIP for a CASH transaction on Saturday. Its actually common here in PA. I hate giving it, but don't like raising a stink.

 

[Ghiddy]

Maybe I'm missing something there. What about internet transactions? You pretty much HAVE to provide full address to process CC payment online.

 

[MotionMan]

So at the moment they need your ZIP code and CC for payment, and your worried they may intercept the info, get your ZIP code and make fraudulent charges.

If they didnt need your ZIP code they could still intercept your info (sans ZIP code, which wouldnt matter as noone would ask for it) and make fraudulent charges.

I was just explaining why people are concerned about including their ZIP as part of the transaction: It can get intercepted.

As for fraudulent charges, all you really need for most fraudulent charges is the CC#.

BTW, ID theft and fraudulent CC charges are not always the same thing. I am more worried about the former than the latter (my wife and MIL were victims of ID theft).

MotionMan

 

[WelshBloke]

I was just explaining why people are concerned about including their ZIP as part of the transaction: It can get intercepted.

As for fraudulent charges, all you really need for most fraudulent charges is the CC#.

BTW, ID theft and fraudulent CC charges are not always the same thing. I am more worried about the former than the latter (my wife and MIL were victims of ID theft).

MotionMan

Ah, ok.

How many addresses does a ZIP code cover (we have a similar thing in the UK and it usually covers a few streets)?

 

[Jadow]

i always just say 90210

 

[QueBert]

???

I've also never heard of cheaper with cash either

With the exception of a very rare station, every place I've ever gotten gas charges a fee if you use plastic. The 8 stations in my area all charge .40 - .50 cents. One even gives me 2 cents a gallon off if I pay cash.

 

[rockyct]

???

I've also never heard of cheaper with cash either

I've seen quite a few stations do this, but it's by far the minority. They'll have a cash price and a credit price. Usually the credit price is 5-10 cents more. Of course, this is another one of those practices that go against their merchant agreement. There is not supposed to be any fee at a merchant for a person paying by credit card.

 

[JS80]

The first thing thieves used to do is go get gas with a stolen CC. That doesn't happen anymore. Huge win/benefit there vs the theoretical I could get a part of my ID stolen side.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Yeah live in KS and have never been asked to enter a zip at the pump. Guess it just depends on what part of the country you live in.

Any reasonable measures to reduce CC fraud are perfectly fine in my book, I wouldn't mind having to put in a zip code for transactions.

I live in KS and it depends on the brand of gas station.

 

[KeithP]

I read an article about this awhile back. When you input in your zip code, the information doesn't get stored away and saved by the gas station, it is used for verification only. The converse is true for normal retail stores though; they are actually saving the zip code (using it for data/marketing purposes), and this is a greater risk you take on if your information ever becomes compromised.

Section 1747.08(a) provides that no business that accepts credit cards for the transactions shall request, or require as a condition to accepting the credit card as payment in full or in part for goods or services, the cardholder to provide personal identification information, which the retailer accepting the credit card writes, causes to be written, or otherwise records upon the credit card transaction form or otherwise.

In the legal case cited, Williams-Sonoma was saving the zip information and using it to to identify the customer for marketing purposes, allegedly.

I am no lawyer, but what that says to me is that Taejin is correct. As long as your zip code isn't saved with the transaction or any other customer data, it seems to me a retailer could still ask for it as long as they didn't retain it in any way.

Also, it is possible a pay at the pump transaction is considered to be between the company that issued the card and the card holder. In that case, I don't think the law would apply at all since the retailer that accepts the card wouldn't be involved.

Again, I have no idea how the transactions actually work. Just speculation on my part. If these companies were actually breaking the law the sharks would be in a feeding frenzy with lawsuits and other than the one mentioned, I haven't heard of any more.

-KeithP

 

[Leros]

Doesn't bother me to give my zip. Telephone # on the other hand...

I usually tell them my telephone number is (111) 111-1111. It's really awkward, but I don't care.

 

[rockyct]

I think privacy is good and I'm against retailers using customer info for marketing/research purposes, but the real "cost" of banning any retailer from using your zip code as a fraud protection is going to be increased credit card fees/interest rates. Credit card companies love to jack up rates for no real reason so if they have to pay more for unauthorized charges real or imagined, it's just going to hurt all of us.

 

[bobdole369]

This thread delivers!

Text of case:

Pineda v. Williams-Sonoma Stores Inc., 2011 DJDAR 2278 (Feb. 10, 2011)

http://www.internetlitigators.com/Articles/PDFDocs/Pineda v. Williams-Sonoma Stores, Inc..pdf

It is California Supreme Court so this might hold some water in that district in Fed court too (though its pretty far down the list as case law goes).

Specifically they note "When a retailer requests and records a ZIP code". Note that they actually have to record it for the injury to occur. If they have a system in place, such as for debit PIN's, where teh PIN is not actually kept by the system - it is not a violation.

 

[Alone]

Wait, you guys have to submit your zip code when...paying for gas? What the fuck?

 

[JS80]

I think privacy is good and I'm against retailers using customer info for marketing/research purposes, but the real "cost" of banning any retailer from using your zip code as a fraud protection is going to be increased credit card fees/interest rates. Credit card companies love to jack up rates for no real reason so if they have to pay more for unauthorized charges real or imagined, it's just going to hurt all of us.

Why is that bad? Wouldn't you be rather served relevant and targeted ads? This theoretically reduces overall marketing costs and will put downward pressure on prices. It's a win/win for everyone. Only losers are TV show, magazine, and billboard ad sellers.